A true Christian is a "follower" of Jesus Christ
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What is the benefit to appear truly spiritual but actually being heretical?
To attack and discourage sheep who are walking close to Christ while being
a wolf in your heart.
The belief is the evil are doing the same, using legalism to bind people with
impossible goals of Christs words.
I see when people have appreciate certain preachers, the preachers appear as shinning
lights, until you hear the killer lines of condemnation of righteousness or morality,
saying these teachers are evil, but we have the light and are true.
And the common theme is always the same, listening to standards or principles only
brings condemnation, and condemnation is evil from satan.
I always find this odd, because sin rightly should be condemned and repented of, yet
following this idea, sin is ok, you should become unaware of it, and then you are holy.
Talk about defilement, and hatred rises up in their hearts, how dare you suggest anyone
can be defiled by sin. Odd that, because that is what Jesus says is the spiritual truth,
we are defiled by our words and deeds that come from sinful desires in our hearts.
But once you start to disconnect sin and righteousness from behaviour you loose the plot
Amen...this is the reason most of us just ignore these kind of posts as it is just a "construct" in his mind as we have seen this happens constantly.
He "perceives" something in his own mind and then proceeds to act like it's true - then he builds a straw-man argument based on his own "perceptions" and then tears this man-made straw-man down. That's just the way his mind thinks and he continues to do it so, we know what is going on, it's best to just ignore it. All is well!
Pretty amazing stuff ain't it? when they say....
Sometimes you have to read through their smoke and mirrors doctrine to actually see what they are really saying because they are good at "twisty" talk and double talk trying to cover for their "prince". People thought I was making this stuff up, but there ya go! And don't worry, let me handle the dogs and the swine, us simple minded country folk are used to that kind of dirty work. 
V
Pretty amazing stuff ain't it? when they say....
Sometimes you have to read through their smoke and mirrors doctrine to actually see what they are really saying because they are good at "twisty" talk and double talk trying to cover for their "prince". People thought I was making this stuff up, but there ya go! And don't worry, let me handle the dogs and the swine, us simple minded country folk are used to that kind of dirty work.
Sometimes you have to read through their smoke and mirrors doctrine to actually see what they are really saying because they are good at "twisty" talk and double talk trying to cover for their "prince". People thought I was making this stuff up, but there ya go! And don't worry, let me handle the dogs and the swine, us simple minded country folk are used to that kind of dirty work.
What does that make me?
This is not an answer to the point.
Does Christ bring victory over sin for the believer in their lives, not just imputed victory?
If victory is achieved between now and meeting Christ when is it achieved?
Ofcourse people can say, how dare you suggest I have said sin is ok.
The point is simple. If sin is forgiven in the future, then it is not an issue.
If sin cannot be resisted or stopped, then one is a slave to it and not free.
You cannot say you are not free from sin and will always sin and then say it
matters. If it mattered you would stop doing it.
This is why these answers you give, your ignoring the point and just saying
I am wrong to point this out, is just lying to yourself.
Christ did not say, carry on sinning, it is ok, and to be expected.
Neither did the apostles. They said you have the power in Christ to overcome,
but if you sin, you can repent and confess and gain forgiveness in Christ.
It is really that simple, yet over this one issue time and again you guys fail.
Does Christ bring victory over sin for the believer in their lives, not just imputed victory?
If victory is achieved between now and meeting Christ when is it achieved?
Ofcourse people can say, how dare you suggest I have said sin is ok.
The point is simple. If sin is forgiven in the future, then it is not an issue.
If sin cannot be resisted or stopped, then one is a slave to it and not free.
You cannot say you are not free from sin and will always sin and then say it
matters. If it mattered you would stop doing it.
This is why these answers you give, your ignoring the point and just saying
I am wrong to point this out, is just lying to yourself.
Christ did not say, carry on sinning, it is ok, and to be expected.
Neither did the apostles. They said you have the power in Christ to overcome,
but if you sin, you can repent and confess and gain forgiveness in Christ.
It is really that simple, yet over this one issue time and again you guys fail.
Pretty amazing stuff ain't it? when they say....
Sometimes you have to read through their smoke and mirrors doctrine to actually see what they are really saying because they are good at "twisty" talk and double talk trying to cover for their "prince". People thought I was making this stuff up, but there ya go! And don't worry, let me handle the dogs and the swine, us simple minded country folk are used to that kind of dirty work.
Sometimes you have to read through their smoke and mirrors doctrine to actually see what they are really saying because they are good at "twisty" talk and double talk trying to cover for their "prince". People thought I was making this stuff up, but there ya go! And don't worry, let me handle the dogs and the swine, us simple minded country folk are used to that kind of dirty work.
They would not lie, but only tell half their beliefs, so they would give the impression
they agreed with you, but actually were lethally opposed.
An example of this was murder. We do not murder.
But what they actually meant is we execute for treason, apostacy and blasphemy.
It became obvious when you asked them to condemn murder because of treason,
apostacy and blasphemy.
The hyper-grace camp key issue is sinning without condemnation.
It is ok, because the sin is forgiven before it is done.
One believer tried to explain as the sin was commited Jesus brought grace to bear.
It was the oddest discussion I have ever read. It disconnected the harm sinful
acts does from the person doing them.
And when questioned they say it is a lie, we care about sin. But then they should
say but we cannot stop sinning. Odd that, when they claim to know Christ.
A little of mans false leaven will leaven the whole lump. Believe in every word of God and ask the Lord to show you the Truth, ask, knock, and seek first from the Lord alone. He will not lead you astray like carnally minded men who only care about money and the honor they receive from other men. Seek the honor that only comes from God.
F
Here's the thing. Everyone but the totally unconscious admit that they continue to sin, but some seem to think that if you speak that out loud it is somehow dangerous. As if God and everyone else doesn't already know it. And here's the odd thing, these are the ones who are constantly talking about sin. But not their own sin, just others sin. Obviously it is a way to make them feel better about their own sin. Robert Capon pegs them with the truth of their delusion...
"We delude ourselves into thinking that our own salvation can be achieved by keeping books on others…’I know I’m no prize, but at least I’m better than that lecher, Harry’ – as if putting ourselves at the head of a whole column marching in the wrong direction somehow made us less lost than the rest of the troops. It would be funny if it were not fatal; but fatal it is, because grace works only in those who accept their lostness. Jesus came to call sinners, not the pseudo-righteous; he came to raise the dead, not to buy drinks for the marginally alive.”
"We delude ourselves into thinking that our own salvation can be achieved by keeping books on others…’I know I’m no prize, but at least I’m better than that lecher, Harry’ – as if putting ourselves at the head of a whole column marching in the wrong direction somehow made us less lost than the rest of the troops. It would be funny if it were not fatal; but fatal it is, because grace works only in those who accept their lostness. Jesus came to call sinners, not the pseudo-righteous; he came to raise the dead, not to buy drinks for the marginally alive.”
I too believe in what has been used in a derogatory term as "hyper-grace" of the finished work of Christ and I also believe that we need to rightly divide the word of God in all scriptures. Some scriptures are not for the believer in Christ but we can still learn from them.
For example:
Jesus said to the rich young ruler " Go and sell all that you have and follow Me". If someone came out with a doctrine that says:
" See, we must sell our stuff and follow Jesus". This is in the gospels and it is the word of God. If you don't sell all your stuff - then you are not a follower of Christ and are not obeying the word of God.
So, we can see that not everything can be used as doctrine in the gospels (nor other scriptures too in the Old Covenant ) even though Jesus said those words. It is usually the person's "application" of those words.
Another common tactic for heretic-hunter types that disagree on some points with others is to use Jesus' words when He called the Pharisees "Vipers" to call fellow believers the same name. Obviously this is not being used correctly and cannot be applied to Christians that are in fact in Christ - sealed by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was the greatest law preacher to those that were into their D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to show them that they needed a Savior - Jesus would give this group the Law of Moses on steroids to reveal their life.
Jesus was also the greatest grace preacher to those that knew they needed Him - to those He preached grace and that His life is enough for them to live.
The moral of the story is - "don't take someone else's medicine".
Can we learn from all the different types of preaching and teaching - Yes - of course. But not everything in scripture is for us that are in the New Covenant and especially what some people have as their "application" of a particular scripture.
For example:
Jesus said to the rich young ruler " Go and sell all that you have and follow Me". If someone came out with a doctrine that says:
" See, we must sell our stuff and follow Jesus". This is in the gospels and it is the word of God. If you don't sell all your stuff - then you are not a follower of Christ and are not obeying the word of God.
So, we can see that not everything can be used as doctrine in the gospels (nor other scriptures too in the Old Covenant ) even though Jesus said those words. It is usually the person's "application" of those words.
Another common tactic for heretic-hunter types that disagree on some points with others is to use Jesus' words when He called the Pharisees "Vipers" to call fellow believers the same name. Obviously this is not being used correctly and cannot be applied to Christians that are in fact in Christ - sealed by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was the greatest law preacher to those that were into their D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to show them that they needed a Savior - Jesus would give this group the Law of Moses on steroids to reveal their life.
Jesus was also the greatest grace preacher to those that knew they needed Him - to those He preached grace and that His life is enough for them to live.
The moral of the story is - "don't take someone else's medicine".
Can we learn from all the different types of preaching and teaching - Yes - of course. But not everything in scripture is for us that are in the New Covenant and especially what some people have as their "application" of a particular scripture.
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I guess I fall inside both camps. I believe in "hyper grace" as well as the relevance of the Gospels.
What does that make me?
Amen...we "believe" in all that Christ has already done and we rest in His finished work and Christ lives in us and His fruit is being manifested in and through us.
We have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God now. Col. 3:3
I am grateful and appreciate the grace of God I don't use it as a ticket to sin but I also feel free knowing that I don't have to freak out whenever I do sin because his grace is like a an ocean and no matter how much I mess up or fall down If I have a repentant heart and my love for him is real I can keep getting back up as if nothing ever happened as if I never sinned in the first place. I tell him how sorry I am for all my mistakes not because I have to because I know his grace and I know my heart is a loving and repentant one but because of my love and respect for him.
I have been called a hyper gracer several times even though I don't even really understand the doctrine but I would rather be called one and be seen as one and be free from the chains of fear and worry of my every sin and to be able have the hand of Jesus offer to help me up with only love in his eyes when I am down and out feeling sinful filthy and unworthy than not be called one and have to worry about all that. I think people who repent for their sins daily are to be respected as it shows they truly have a repentant heart but to look down and call people hyper grace believers is going to far.
Hyper grace seems to me like a title given to one to show their in the wrong and is a title of shame and misuse of God's grace, luckily such things do not affect me I bear no such title in my heart and I don't belong to any one denomination not even the nondemonitation as that in itself is a denomination
I have been called a hyper gracer several times even though I don't even really understand the doctrine but I would rather be called one and be seen as one and be free from the chains of fear and worry of my every sin and to be able have the hand of Jesus offer to help me up with only love in his eyes when I am down and out feeling sinful filthy and unworthy than not be called one and have to worry about all that. I think people who repent for their sins daily are to be respected as it shows they truly have a repentant heart but to look down and call people hyper grace believers is going to far.
Hyper grace seems to me like a title given to one to show their in the wrong and is a title of shame and misuse of God's grace, luckily such things do not affect me I bear no such title in my heart and I don't belong to any one denomination not even the nondemonitation as that in itself is a denomination
See that is where they are, (in a round about way at least), giving a green light to sin. Because if they believe all future sins are forgiven, and you cannot fall away from the faith and lose salvation by ongoing sin, then to the unlearned and weak in faith this is like an open invitation to keep on sinning. So they do keep sinning because they truly believe this false doctrine is true. So even though they say they do not teach sin is ok, their false doctrine teaches other wise, even though you may have to remove the smoke and mirrors and candy coating they use to cover it up and disguise it.
B
I have listened to you and your voice is sound, I can hear the spirit. I see in what is going on that there are subtle ways in which people talk. 50% human and 50% spiritual but altogether not of the Holy Spirit. Use your ears, and listen prayerfully. Even with what I posted before I have not condemned anyone. In what I am saying now, I am not condemning any one.
I am told to love everyone, and I really try and look past what is happening, but when I come across what I have, I am allowed to be surprised and disappointed and say something, just not against the person, which I have not anyway.
Jesus died for that person, if by my disappointment they, whoever they are (they know), will take again what they have said and take it to Jesus. The thing is what they write says that Jesus words are not important, so could they take it to Him? I urge them to, because Jesus is the name above all others, above hyper-grace, Jesus is above gog (gospel of grace), The name of Jesus saves and no other.
The name of Jesus is not just a word which is spelled j,e,s,u,s, that name belongs to the Son of the most high God, was made flesh from being God and is now become the "first fruits of those that slept" by being killed on the cross 2000 years ago. This Person Jesus the Christ is the one they need to go to and submit to with their words that His words are not important.
Use what God has given you and do not move from it. Use the Spirit you have been given and discern for yourself the road you must take to reach Gods Kingdom. I can not do this for you, test everything, everything.
God bless.
I am told to love everyone, and I really try and look past what is happening, but when I come across what I have, I am allowed to be surprised and disappointed and say something, just not against the person, which I have not anyway.
Jesus died for that person, if by my disappointment they, whoever they are (they know), will take again what they have said and take it to Jesus. The thing is what they write says that Jesus words are not important, so could they take it to Him? I urge them to, because Jesus is the name above all others, above hyper-grace, Jesus is above gog (gospel of grace), The name of Jesus saves and no other.
The name of Jesus is not just a word which is spelled j,e,s,u,s, that name belongs to the Son of the most high God, was made flesh from being God and is now become the "first fruits of those that slept" by being killed on the cross 2000 years ago. This Person Jesus the Christ is the one they need to go to and submit to with their words that His words are not important.
Use what God has given you and do not move from it. Use the Spirit you have been given and discern for yourself the road you must take to reach Gods Kingdom. I can not do this for you, test everything, everything.
God bless.
Honestly I don't even see grace in the split way many seem to, I mean there seems be hyper grace and non hyper grace when all I see is grace. You know early in my faith I was under extremely heavy attacks of condemnation and being so sinful I felt as if gravity had increased so much that I could get up even an inch and this gravity was the worry and fear of my sins and my screw ups so much so I thought for sure I was going to hell and the thought of losing Jesus hurt to much and made me cry. I kept messing I kept falling short each time feeling this way but contrary to my feelings and what I thought in my mind I kept seeing a mental image that I didn't expect.
I would have expected seeing him with either fiery angry eyes or shaking his head in deep disappointment but instead I saw me on my knees to ashamed and to full of sin to even look at him yet he extended his hand and encouraged me gave me strength to stand again telling me he needed me to stay strong.
Every time I was bombarded by that intense gravity of being so sinful being so horrible being condemned to hell this image appeared in my mind. I think this was the starting point of me understanding his grace I had to be at my lowest in order to not just understand his grace but to truly be grateful for it
I would have expected seeing him with either fiery angry eyes or shaking his head in deep disappointment but instead I saw me on my knees to ashamed and to full of sin to even look at him yet he extended his hand and encouraged me gave me strength to stand again telling me he needed me to stay strong.
Every time I was bombarded by that intense gravity of being so sinful being so horrible being condemned to hell this image appeared in my mind. I think this was the starting point of me understanding his grace I had to be at my lowest in order to not just understand his grace but to truly be grateful for it
B
I hear what you say and I do understand why but I do not agree. Why do you say
? I do not fear hell, neither do anyone posting and no one says this except for hypergrace, so do you sin and not repent?
Do you not sin at all or is it all covered and nothing more needs to be done?, honestly I would like to know. I am not being pedantic here I truly would like to know. If you went outside tomorrow and fell over, while getting up you didn't see the branch and hit your head and while holding your head you stand on a nail then the air turns blue. Yes I know its a long shot but please humour me how would you handle using bad language?
When I sin, I get a conviction from the Spirit. Sometimes I have to ask for clarification of the sin, usually I know, and my repentance is 'acknowledging the sin and then thanking God through Jesus, for Jesus sacrifice which covers this sin, like the passage "When you make his sacrifice an offering for your sin, He shall see His seed". In this way I continue in the righteousness of Jesus.
This isn't a trick question, how do you stay sin free when you slip or fall?
Do you not sin at all or is it all covered and nothing more needs to be done?, honestly I would like to know. I am not being pedantic here I truly would like to know. If you went outside tomorrow and fell over, while getting up you didn't see the branch and hit your head and while holding your head you stand on a nail then the air turns blue. Yes I know its a long shot but please humour me how would you handle using bad language?
When I sin, I get a conviction from the Spirit. Sometimes I have to ask for clarification of the sin, usually I know, and my repentance is 'acknowledging the sin and then thanking God through Jesus, for Jesus sacrifice which covers this sin, like the passage "When you make his sacrifice an offering for your sin, He shall see His seed". In this way I continue in the righteousness of Jesus.
This isn't a trick question, how do you stay sin free when you slip or fall?
lol I knew that his post would be misunderstood no worries I got you buddy. He was saying that that because of his love and grace we don't have to fear being condemned to hell whenever we sin. Many use the fear of hell to keep people in line some preachers are very into using hell to scare people into faith as they think well fear of God is better than none of God but how can one know him out of fear of going to hell every time they sin?