FALLING FROM GRACE; WHAT IT MEANS AND HOW YOU FALL

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The Jews didn't believe in a "hell" until they were conquered by Alexander and he brought in tales of a place called Tarturus. Everywhere you see the word "hell" in the OT, it refers to Sheol, which is simply the grave. Everyone goes there.

The scriptures clearly states God has prepared a place for Satan & his angels. That isn't a "grave". Even relevation spoke of whoever was not found in the book of life was casted into the lake of fire. Again that's not a grave.
 
Talisha,

no fooling us here..we already know that you don't walk on a curve...
we know that you know many of God's truths and believe that they are beautiful..

always remember, that the price of wisdom is sorrow...
 
We also do "fall from grace" - which means "to drop away" because we are depending on the law for righteousness ( the law is anything we do to justify ourselves )

Galatians 5:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

You have been severed from Christ means that we are not receiving what Christ's grace provides because of our own self-effort in trying to obtain things.

These people are still saved and going to heaven - just that grace for living the true Christian live while on this earth does not "work" for them because they are trusting in their own works.




Exactly Brother. It's not about God rejecting us or dumping us and getting rid of us as some believers are so afraid of. It's always the Lord trying to show us over and over that HE has done it all. He loves us that much.

I don't understand the religious need to keep the church in fear and doubt about God. He wants us to have a sure confidence in Him and His love for us. A sure and steady consolation., The Bible calls it a strong consolation! Religion always seeks to put people in fear while Jesus always witnesses of the grace of God for us that can be our consolation in such a fearful and Topsy turvy world. We need a sure confidence.

I can always tell a good teacher or preacher by the way he or she seeks to encourage someone in the love of God. If a regular Christian or if a preacher or teacher is always trying to get you to fear God as one of His children then don't listen to them. Those Christians need a revelation of the love of God in Christ.

 
The scriptures clearly states God has prepared a place for Satan & his angels. That isn't a "grave". Even relevation spoke of whoever was not found in the book of life was casted into the lake of fire. Again that's not a grave.

Hence my statement "until they were conquered by Alexander".
 
I don't need a savior. If there's an undetectable God who will torture me for all eternity for not believing that he exists before I die, then he is an evil God and he deserves my contempt, not my supplication.


On the contrary Talishi. This world is all wacky and nutty and crazy without Jesus. There is no true honesty without the goodness of God. Human goodness will always be trumped by the need to always survive. And how can you survive on your own worth when it changes based on what you do or don't do?

If you fail to follow your own advice., you become not worth listening to even for yourself. Nope, a true humanist will have to admit his or her own inability to follow through each and every time. And then what do they do? Where do they go in their minds?

 
I don't need a savior. If there's an undetectable God who will torture me for all eternity for not believing that he exists before I die, then he is an evil God and he deserves my contempt, not my supplication.



And again., the problem with this kind of reasoning is we humans (if we are honest) know how wrong we are about so many things. We don't have all the information about any given subject to make a 100% judgment based on all the facts in any given situation. It happens to the great people and the not so great people. We can only do the best we can and sometimes our best just is not good enough.

And then what do we do??
 
Unfortunatly it seems you will have to learn the hard way & pay for your sins.

Sin is the violation of a religious precept. Since I do not have a religion, I do not sin. But I'm a fairly good person, once you get to know me!
 
Sin is defined as missing the mark as in not being perfect

Paul used the verb hamartano when he wrote, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

Therefore those who deny sin are either perfect or lying.
 
Sin is the violation of a religious precept. Since I do not have a religion, I do not sin. But I'm a fairly good person, once you get to know me!

Just because you may reject God doesn't mean you will escape judgement. No one will escape Gods judgement. Soley being a good person wont get you into heaven. Nor will your "good deeds" get you into heaven either. Considering you openly admitted you dont need a savior unfortunately you are on the path to destruction. You will stand before God whether you like it or not & will be held accountable.
 
I don't need a savior. If there's an undetectable God who will torture me for all eternity for not believing that he exists before I die, then he is an evil God and he deserves my contempt, not my supplication.
It is not torture for not believing that He exists. It is the price for not accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, and believing in His death, burial and resurrection.

Have seen your posts in this and other threads...welcome to CC, and hope you enjoy your stay.
 
Just because you may reject God doesn't mean you will escape judgement. No one will escape Gods judgement. Soley being a good person wont get you into heaven. Nor will your "good deeds" get you into heaven either. Considering you openly admitted you dont need a savior unfortunately you are on the path to destruction. You will stand before God whether you like it or not & will be held accountable.

I don't know why you would say that!

On Wednesday August 15, 1979 at approximately 9PM I was at Black Lake Bible Camp in Olympia Washington with other girls from the First Evangelical Free Church and I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. What happened to Once Saved Always Saved?
 
Sin is the violation of a religious precept. Since I do not have a religion, I do not sin. But I'm a fairly good person, once you get to know me![/QUOTE

I'm also very glad you came here too Talishi. There are believers here who know the Good News. It's really Good News! We do not have to go this world (or the next) alone. Jesus came to be our Savior from all the things that seek to devour us as human beings. From our very flesh and bone right down to our very souls Jesus came to save us.

Sin is what we need to be saved from and only Jesus can do that. We are not good enough. We don't have a solid and good constitution. We are weak in body and in mind and soul. Even if we happen to see this about ourselves and try to run from ourselves, we can't because we go wherever we are.

We can't even be consistently good no matter how much we try because we are fallible human beings. Even the best and sweetest and kindest lovely person is still fallible. As you know from your reading the Bible and talking to other Christians., the standard for goodness is higher than us human beings. We need some major help from this situation. And the good news is Jesus Christ came to save sinners. He came to be a Physician to the sick.
:)
 
I don't know why you would say that!

On Wednesday August 15, 1979 at approximately 9PM I was at Black Lake Bible Camp in Olympia Washington with other girls from the First Evangelical Free Church and I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. What happened to Once Saved Always Saved?

Why would you state "I don't need a savior" & now proclaim Christ as your savior?. Then you state "you do not sin" when the scriptures state in 1 John 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
 
Thanks!

I have absolutely no problem with anyone who challenges my posts or interpretation of scripture or theology or anything else like that. It's when they say something like "Talishi is here playing games" or the like that I have to draw the line. BDF not about me, it's about the scriptures, do you see? I have to be a little hardcore on that point. Believe me, the forum will be better for it, I've been doing this sort of thing since 1996 and I was once on your team. Quite the apologist, if you can imagine.

I am all for loving this woman, but she is telling us her intention since 1996, has been trying to convince Christians that their God is a myth. She has no interest in becoming a Christian. She claims she was one at one time.

I'm confused as to why my dear brothers and sisters are indulging her.

Ruby, we DO love you, I'm so terribly sorry for your spiritual condition, but I'm not sure what your purpose is here, or what your trying to accomplish. Surely you MUST know that those who are born again CAN'T be snatched out of our God's hand.

Peace, love and grace to you in Jesus sweet Name!
 
I don't know why you would say that!

On Wednesday August 15, 1979 at approximately 9PM I was at Black Lake Bible Camp in Olympia Washington with other girls from the First Evangelical Free Church and I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. What happened to Once Saved Always Saved?


If on Wed. Aug.15, 1979 at 9pm when you were at Black Lake Bible Camp in Olympia Washington and you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and were really born again than you for sure would be a child of God.

But a child of God who has been dealing with who the Bible calls "the god of confusion" satan is very efficient at causing confusion in the mind of people. he has been doing it for years. What will ultimately defeat him is the love of God in Christ. Our enemy does not want us to know who we are in Christ and will attach the very essence of your faith by lying to you about the love of God in Christ for you. Causing you to reason out the whys of life and like Adam and Eve get you to question God's goodness and pure motives.

That is how we are defeated as believers. Am praying for you Talishi. Jesus loves you more than you know.

P.S. And that is also how unsaved people are blinded. They fail to see the Good News of the love of God in Christ. Their minds are blinded by the god of this world.

 
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Why would you state "I don't need a savior" & now proclaim Christ as your savior?

That's a true story, I was saved at 9PM on Wednesday, August 15, 1979 in Olympia, Washington. Of course, when my flirtation with Evangelicalism was over I went back to the Roman Catholic Church in 1996, so maybe my salvation never "took" but if you wonder where my familiarity with the Bible comes from, there you go.
 
Ruby, we DO love you, I'm so terribly sorry for your spiritual condition, but I'm not sure what your purpose is here, or what your trying to accomplish. Surely you MUST know that those who are born again CAN'T be snatched out of our God's hand.

Oh no, PennEd, you broke my rule. Have a very nice rest of your life.
 
Oh no, PennEd, you broke my rule. Have a very nice rest of your life.

Thank you Ruby. I mean that in all sincerity. And truthfully, after more than 50 posts a day, for under a week, from you I'm a little relieved that I can ignore you and clear up the latest activity page.

But whether you believe it or not, I truly wish you nothing but the best, and it's in that vain, that I pray the Lord will remove your stony heart, as that would be the best for you.

Have a blessed night
 
That's a true story, I was saved at 9PM on Wednesday, August 15, 1979 in Olympia, Washington. Of course, when my flirtation with Evangelicalism was over I went back to the Roman Catholic Church in 1996, so maybe my salvation never "took" but if you wonder where my familiarity with the Bible comes from, there you go.

With all due respect you should have never went back to the Roman Catholic Church its full of corruption & is deceiving many of their followers.