So I promised I would stay out of these futile arguments, but this post is so right on, I had to speak against the lies from other people.
First, ISIT says:
"What happened to the process of first being made a babe in Christ by spiritual rebirth, and the ongoing process of sanctification and purification, working toward that perfection by the trans formative power of God's Holy Spirit? This is why so many of his followers are so opposed to the idea of actually being set free from sin and heart purity, because that process has been totally removed in JP's teaching."
Hmm! Exactly what the Holy Spirit has taught me and many others! Justification, sanctification, and glorification when we see Christ! Not this "instant" perfectionism. This is far, far from works! Or losing your salvation!
This is an excellent post, once again pointing out the absolute heresies of Joseph Prince!
NO, we are not saved or made perfect instantly, by right thinking!
How can anyone miss the words of the NT, which stays that we must be born again, BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD!
"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:5-6
"Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart,23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;" 1 Peter 1:22-23
Please note the word obedience to the truth, in 1 Peter 1:22. Peter is addressing Christians who are born again, who have been changed by "the living and abiding work of God." I do believe obedience comes out of that truth, without it, we are not bearing fruit that we are saved, and probably are not saved!
Nothing about "right thinking" and certainly nothing about being perfectly sanctified! That is a lie from the devil, without Scriptural support.
Grace777x77 said:
The above is what is called - a contradiction! We are NOT perfectly sanctified now. Although we are positionally justified - (Romans 5:1), there is no where in the Bible it says we are perfectly sanctified, except in bad translations!
"μιᾷ γὰρ προσφορᾷ τετελείωκεν εἰς τὸ διηνεκὲς τοὺς ἁγιαζομένους." Hebrews 10:14
Hagiazomenos - ἁγιαζομένους is the Present Passive Participle. However, I have no idea where this translation of yours "are sanctified" comes from - but the actual translation needs to have the passive in it -meaning like the following versions, "those who are being sanctified!" Not just "are sanctified" which would be an imperfect tense!
"Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )"
?? Version?? A simplified version, perhaps?
"For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Hebrews 10:14 NIV
"For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being made holy." Hebrews 10:14 ESV
"The ones being sanctified" Hebrews 10:14b USB interlinear translation.
Yes, the sanctification is done by God. But is the passive used here to signify we are perfect right now in our sanctification?
"In fact, when God is the obvious agent of the transforming process, Greek used the passive to show that it was the theological passive or the divine passive. Further, this "divine passive" seems to occur frequently throughout the NT. That God is behind the scenes is self-evidently part of the world view of the NT writers."
Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics by Daniel Wallace pg 437-438.
This passage is about God and how his sacrifice is the means and the method that God uses to work on us to perfect us. But no, that perfection will not be complete until we see Jesus face to face.
"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." 1 Cor. 13:12
"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appearswe shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2
When will we be like Jesus? When he returns!
Why will we be like Jesus? Because we will see him face to face, as he is. But right now, a glass darkly, or a mirror dimly.
Bruce, I think you seriously need to take some Greek courses because you constantly post things that are only half true. In this case, it is the present passive, but that translation is wrong, and that is something you would know instantly if you understood Greek. Just my advice.
As for the Acts 27:18 passage you quoted here:
"ἀνοῖξαι ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτῶν, τοῦ ἐπιστρέψαι ἀπὸ σκότους εἰς φῶς καὶ τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ Σατανᾶ ἐπὶ τὸν θεόν, τοῦ λαβεῖν αὐτοὺς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν καὶ κλῆρον ἐν τοῖς ἡγιασμένοις πίστει τῇ εἰς ἐμέ." Acts 26:18
Not one of the better translations translates this perfect passive as "having been sanctified," although one might think that was correct, with a superficial understanding of Greek.
In fact, Perfect, in this case, emphasizes the state or condition. So looking at reliable translations:
"to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me." Acts 26:18 NIV
"to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’" Acts 26:18 ESV
So it is NOT about something which was done in the past, but rather a statement of the process. In fact, it is part of the witness of Paul before King Agrippa, and his testimony of the call Jesus had on his life. (Please don't pull verses out of context!) The implication is clear, that while perfection is in the future, at this point, he is a member of those called "saints" in that positionally they are justified, and in the process of being sanctified.
