Alcohol

LaurenTM · Sep 12, 2016

they don't

just folks who have a problem with it do

and of course, that means, to them, everyone should be just like them so that we all can come into agreement

even though Jesus NEVER said what you believe is what makes Christians one

that, is supposed to be love

but how can you love someone who dares to question what you believe?

no words

kaylagrl · Sep 12, 2016

lv2ski said:

Kind of just came to me. And Ive heard this argument before by those who want to smoke weed. Where do we stop?

I'm just going to leave this right here on the subject....

1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

LaurenTM · Sep 12, 2016

I'll mention it again because it has been overlooked and yet it should be of GREAT consideration in the overall scheme of you folks who are fascinated with fabricated holiness

DAVID ATE THE CONSECRATED BREAD FOR THE PRIESTS WHEN HE WAS HUNGRY

now if you actually know anything about the OT, the law and the priests...you need to apply that understanding to Jesus, OUR High Priest, His breaking of bread...His life and His liberty

but I digress

LaurenTM · Sep 12, 2016

now we are all smoking weed...apparently

but nothing to say about actual FACTS?

from my post in response to YOUR post, #189

KAYLA

well, I don't think it's alcohol and that sounds like something repeated many times without the facts

people destroy homes and families and it is FAR from always alcohol

According to a recent survey of 191 CDFA professionals from across North America, the three leading causes of divorce are "basic incompatibility" (43%), "infidelity" (28%), and "money issues" (22%). "Emotional and/or physical abuse" lagged far behind (5.8%), and "parenting issues/arguments" and "addiction and/or alcoholism issues" received only .5% each. From August 1 to 29, 2013, 191 CDFA professionals from across North America responded to the question: "According to what your divorcing clients have told you, what is the main reason that most of them are getting (or have gotten) divorced?"

yes I know...5% is too much...

CHECK IT OUT HERE

it's just your basic sinful human being causes the destruction you are concerned about

it's not the demon rum...it's just the demons

OK?

Alcohol has destroyed more homes,more lives over the years and there is no need for it.

well, I don't think it's alcohol and that sounds like something repeated many times without the facts

people destroy homes and families and it is FAR from always alcohol

According to a recent survey of 191 CDFA professionals from across North America, the three leading causes of divorce are "basic incompatibility" (43%), "infidelity" (28%), and "money issues" (22%). "Emotional and/or physical abuse" lagged far behind (5.8%), and "parenting issues/arguments" and "addiction and/or alcoholism issues" received only .5% each. From August 1 to 29, 2013, 191 CDFA professionals from across North America responded to the question: "According to what your divorcing clients have told you, what is the main reason that most of them are getting (or have gotten) divorced?"

yes I know...5% is too much...

CHECK IT OUT HERE

it's just your basic sinful human being causes the destruction you are concerned about

it's not the demon rum...it's just the demons

OK?

LaurenTM · Sep 12, 2016

what I am going to leave here, are the silly non-biblical arguments and biased nonfactual comments and personal put-downs and attempts at manipulating what others say in order to shame them or silence them

Stephen63 · Sep 12, 2016

Many times we forget there's OTHER reasons to do/not do a thing: Does it cause offence?
Paul said he'd eat meat no more IF it caused his brother to stumble.
1 Corinthians 8:9-13 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol's temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? [SUP]11 [/SUP]For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

Shouldn't the right thing to do be make sure we don't offend? Do we have the right to be arrogant, & say "I'm not letting their weakness keep me from doing what I want?"

It's much easier to destroy a convert than it is to save one. Don't give Satan a helping hand.

LaurenTM · Sep 12, 2016

kaylagrl said:

legitimate reason

sounds good

MikeHenderson · Sep 12, 2016

What is right or wrong is basically what the Government says. In some countries what may be illegal there is legal here.

Its not what people say, its what God says. He tells us to be filled with the Holy Spirit. How can one be filled with the Holy Spirit if one is tripping out on a drug?

Who do you want to be in control of your life, God or drugs?

lv2ski · Sep 12, 2016

If you look around the world, you'll see more than 140 million orphans, many of which are the result of alcoholism. We have ministries in Russia, 70% of men are alcoholics,broken homes and fatherless children everywhere, and the same goes for much of Europe and India and places like that.

In America, the Black and Native communities are the same way. Men who don't work and the Fatherless are scattered all over. Women who don't know or do anything remotely close to descent mothering or being a respectable wife. I used to teach the bible on the reservation. It's heart wrenching to listen to their stories. I was formerly a chaplain in the jail for two years, same thing. I had my own marriage destroyed by that stuff. My children are virtually motherless.

Jesus said, a good tree cannot bear bad fruit. The fruit on this tree is bad, you cannot show any good, except some fleshly opinions that have no scriptural root without commentaries.

LaurenTM · Sep 12, 2016

Originally Posted by kaylagrl

Gluttony is a sin,yet many times I see that is what a person eats,not the amount that causes them to gain weight.But if you are eating like a cultured hog then yes that is wrong and you need to turn to the Lord for help. Alcohol has destroyed more homes,more lives over the years and there is no need for it. No reason to drink at all. There was a time the church believed it was wrong to drink, that we looked too much like the world when we drink. I guess Im more old fashioned than I think.
What if you sit down with someone that has had a problem with alcoholism and you dont know it and by your drinking you cause them to stumble? Just a thought. Again there is no good argument for alcohol and that remains my opinion. The Bible is very clear on the dangers of alcohol.

Kayla...I very clearly said I would NEVER drink an alcoholic anything in front of someone who disapproves..that means believer or not believer as either way, it would not be good for them or say much about me

from post 189
I answered you...you seemed to think I would not care about other people..

your objections are not fitting for other people necessairly

they are certainly not warranted for me

lv2ski · Sep 12, 2016

Magenta said:

You're missing one, the last one should be STD, illegitimate child.

Magenta · Sep 12, 2016

lv2ski said:

I am so sorry to hear that.

Jesus came to seek and save the lost.

While she is still alive, there is hope...

PollyAnna · Sep 12, 2016

posthuman said:

If you take the scripture in context you will notice that Paul was speaking of FOOD in the previous scriptures. . He wasnt talking about drugs that get you HIGH and render you sowing to your flesh and not your spirit. Grow up! You are perverting the word to rationalize your getting stoned.

resurrection33 · Sep 12, 2016

lv2ski said:

I suspect a day will come when no one feels it's necessary to drink, but in the meantime, I don't think moderate drinking hurts anything.

Stephen63 · Sep 12, 2016

I have to agree with lv2ski.....With sin ever increasing, today we have gamer addicts that can't lay the controller down. That's bad.

EVEN IF it wasn't a problem in Bible days, it sure is now. Again, we need to look at other scriptures & other sins that promote these problems.

2 Timothy 3:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, [SUP]3 [/SUP]unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, [SUP]4 [/SUP]treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, [SUP]5 [/SUP]holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

Since these sins run rampant today, we have to be more careful what we expose ourselves to.

Without self-control..... not just lacking it. With all the addictions ever increasing, the church has to be more vigilant to flee from sin. It seems today we're all having to run like Joseph did. How can we have enough self-confidence to think we can handle it?
[HR][/HR]1 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
[HR][/HR]1 Corinthians 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
[HR][/HR]1 Thessalonians 5:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.

[HR][/HR]

gb9 · Sep 12, 2016

Stephen63 said:

um, Paul is talking specifically here about meat sacrificed to idols, and eating in pagan homes. he was NOT making general statements. Romans 14 is a much better commentary on not causing someone else to stumble. but, since that part of the Bible does not really line up with the Pentecostal church's rules to control what their members do, i'm guessing yall do not use that one.

lv2ski · Sep 12, 2016

resurrection33 said:

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Paul said, have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness.

For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
Ephesians 5:8*-‬11 NKJV
http://bible.com/114/eph.5.8-11.NKJV

If you really bear the burdens of others, the pain is real. It isn't godly to harden our hearts to that.

lv2ski · Sep 12, 2016

EVEN IF it wasn't a problem in Bible days, it sure is now. Again, we need to look at other scriptures & other sins that promote these problems.

Bam Bro!

Stephen63 · Sep 12, 2016

gb9 said:

No, he didn't make a general statement, but he DID set a general STANDARD.
I'm not gonna blame your denomination or church for the way you act, for that is stereotyping & pronouncing judgement on all of them for your stupid little actions. I don't think even the RCC deserves that.

kaylagrl · Sep 12, 2016

LaurenTM said:

Quote "I very clearly said I would NEVER drink an alcoholic anything in front of someone who disapproves."

In my second post I said what if someone had that issue and you did not know it you could be a stumbling block. I didnt mean you would do so on purpose.

Before I go further let me say that we disagree but its not a personal thing. Im not saying Im a better person and it seems if I disagree with people they become my CC enemies. We're just discussing and having differences of opinion.

Now,you have misunderstood what I was saying. I did not say everyone who takes a drink becomes an alcoholic, or is one. Did not say that. I said if you never take a drink or alcohol you dont have to worry if you are predispositioned to be an alcoholic. I have no say in what is up or down, I only read the Bible and that tells us how to live. And yes the Bible does warn of the dangers of alcohol. Is there a difference in being drunk and being buzzed? I think the Bible warns either is wrong. Perhaps you know your limit,not all do.

Yes,my church was Pentecostal,not where I attend now, and it was Assemblies of God not Holiness Pentecostal if that was what you were thinking. People destroy homes yes, but we cant deny that alcohol itself has destroyed many homes also.{again Im not saying anyone who has a drink is an alcoholic} From the Huffington Post:

1. 88,000 deaths are annually attributed to excessive alcohol use. (CDC)

2. Every day, almost 30 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver. This amounts to one death every 51 minutes. (CDC)

3. Long-term alcohol use can cause serious health complications affecting every organ in your body, including your brain. Additionally, it can damage your emotional stability, finances, career, impact your family, friends and the people you work with. (NCAAD)

4. Women who binge drink are more likely to have unprotected sex and multiple sex partners. These activities increase the risks of unintended pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. (CDC)

5. 100,000 persons die each year from alcohol-related causes: drinking and driving crashes, other accidents, falls, fires, alcohol-related homicides and suicides. (NCAAD)

6. Excessive alcohol consumption increases aggression and, as a result, can increase the risk of physically assaulting another person. (CDC)

7. Of the 3.9 million Americans who received treatment for a substance abuse problem in 2005, 2.5 million of them were treated for alcohol use. (Drug Free World)

8. Approximately 17 percent of men and 8 percent of women will be dependent on alcohol in their lifetime. (NIAAA)

9. Because of the astounding 80,000 deaths that are related to alcohol abuse every year, alcohol abuse is the third highest cause of death in the U.S. (CDC)

10. 696,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are assaulted by another student who has been drinking. (NIAAA)

11. Approximately 7,000 children in the U.S. under the age of 16 take their first drink every day, which is a major problem because those who begin drinking before age 15 are four times more likely to develop alcoholism than those who begin at age 21. (Rehabs.com)

12. Excessive alcohol consumption cost the United States $223.5 billion in 2006. This amounts to about $1.90 per drink, or about $746 per person. (CDC)

13. Alcoholism includes the following four symptoms: craving, loss of control, physical dependence, and tolerance. (NCADD)

14. Teen alcohol use kills 4,700 people each year — that’s more than all illegal drugs combined. (MADD)

15. 5.3 million adults −- 36 percent of those under correctional supervision at the time -− were drinking at the time of their conviction offense. (NCADD)

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