Alcohol
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R
This is a big discussion. Some are sipping saints and some are T totalers. I am a T totaler. For one, why do you need to drink alcohol? Why not some red kool aid? I understand that Paul told Timothy not to forsake wine altogether for His stomach sake. Red wine is good for digestion. However, it is a slippery snake and if you are drinking it then you will find every reason to justify it, just like any other sin. Okay a glass of wine at supper is no problem, unless you have kids that see you drinking that glass of wine. Oh and wine in the bible days, 23 glasses of wine equaled one Martini according to Aristotle.
But your kids see you drinking it and say hey mom and dad drink it so why can't I. It's one of those do as I say and not what I do. Every alcoholic drinks, but not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, why take that chance with your kids.
I am a former alcoholic, delivered by the Cross of Christ. I know what it can and will do. Best to just leave it alone.
Every alcoholic says the same thing " I wish I had never took that first drink" How do you know how it will effect your kids?
I would rather drink some iced tea or kool aid than to take that chance. Amen
But your kids see you drinking it and say hey mom and dad drink it so why can't I. It's one of those do as I say and not what I do. Every alcoholic drinks, but not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, why take that chance with your kids.
I am a former alcoholic, delivered by the Cross of Christ. I know what it can and will do. Best to just leave it alone.
Every alcoholic says the same thing " I wish I had never took that first drink" How do you know how it will effect your kids?
I would rather drink some iced tea or kool aid than to take that chance. Amen
More often than not a drunkard is causing uproar and/or harm. In those situations, we don't just keep our nose out of it. There are times in which we need to take action. As for what's transpired here, I can't control how others act. I've said from the get go drinking alcohol isn't a problem. I only said I didn't like the passive aggressiveness and pride that came with it later on.
K
Wow am I missing what you are saying here? Are you calling Christians that disagree with drinking self righteous prigs?! Just because I dont agree with drinking doesn't mean I "went after" anyone. As I shared,my uncle was a lifelong drunk. We prayed for him for years and he came to know the Lord on his deathbed. No one ever condemned him. And yet again may I remind people that the OP was about Christians drinking,not the unsaved. Now if you are a Christian and have no issue with drinking thats between you and God. I disagree with it but thats me. But if we are talking about a Christian becoming buzzed or drunk the Bible definitely warns against that. I didn't read much so I dont know what Sirk was doing, he's tricky sometimes
But Im sure you agree brother that being drunk is something the Bible is against. I'll follow that up with a great Christian man that was a friend of our family. He has since passed. Wonderful Christian but from time to time he would slip under stress and drink and get so drunk he couldn't find his way home. His wife would call my father who would go and find him and bring him home. He owned a popular restaurant in our town. Not one of us ever told a soul about his issue,we never brought it up to him,all we did was pray. Alcoholism is a very serious subject for those who have had the issue and their family and friends. I hope we keep that in mind as we continue to discuss the topic.
K
nah
just south of the border LOL!
and to think I missed it all...tossing down my 2nd cup of VERY strong coffee
it has been suggested I use an IV drip...
just south of the border LOL!
and to think I missed it all...tossing down my 2nd cup of VERY strong coffee
it has been suggested I use an IV drip...
Wow am I missing what you are saying here? Are you calling Christians that disagree with drinking self righteous prigs?! Just because I dont agree with drinking doesn't mean I "went after" anyone. As I shared,my uncle was a lifelong drunk. We prayed for him for years and he came to know the Lord on his deathbed. No one ever condemned him. And yet again may I remind people that the OP was about Christians drinking,not the unsaved. Now if you are a Christian and have no issue with drinking thats between you and God. I disagree with it but thats me. But if we are talking about a Christian becoming buzzed or drunk the Bible definitely warns against that. I didn't read much so I dont know what Sirk was doing, he's tricky sometimes But Im sure you agree brother that being drunk is something the Bible is against.
I'll follow that up with a great Christian man that was a friend of our family. He has since passed. Wonderful Christian but from time to time he would slip under stress and drink and get so drunk he couldn't find his way home. His wife would call my father who would go and find him and bring him home. He owned a popular restaurant in our town. Not one of us ever told a soul about his issue,we never brought it up to him,all we did was pray. Alcoholism is a very serious subject for those who have had the issue and their family and friends. I hope we keep that in mind as we continue to discuss the topic.
But Im sure you agree brother that being drunk is something the Bible is against. I'll follow that up with a great Christian man that was a friend of our family. He has since passed. Wonderful Christian but from time to time he would slip under stress and drink and get so drunk he couldn't find his way home. His wife would call my father who would go and find him and bring him home. He owned a popular restaurant in our town. Not one of us ever told a soul about his issue,we never brought it up to him,all we did was pray. Alcoholism is a very serious subject for those who have had the issue and their family and friends. I hope we keep that in mind as we continue to discuss the topic.
My grandma lived in San Francisco and was a switchboard operator for Bell telephone company. When my dad was around 4 or 5 her husband left her for another woman and left them pretty penniless. This was in the early 50's. Unable to afford to keep my dad and his sister, they were placed in a catholic orphanage. My grandma was raped in an alley as she got off the bus after work. Her assailant stepped on her ankle and broke it. She was a closet vodka drinker and never let anyone help her in the kitchen when we were over for holiday dinners....I wonder why. Lol
My father once described for me the abuse he suffered at that home. They had specific potty times and if you didn't use them it was your problem. If you wet yourself you were beaten. My dad said he remembered sneaking a teddy bear from the play room into his bed and was caught with it and beaten. I also think that he was molested there but of that I am not sure. When my dad was 18 he went to california to find his dad. He went to his dads door and knocked. When the man came to the door and found out it was his son, he slammed the door in his face.
I only knew my grandma until I was about 15 or 16. My last memory of her is her dying in a hospital bed. She had been sober for 3 years. I still have a serenity prayer plaque that she gave my dad with a personal note congratulating him on his sobriety. My dad quit drinking too but later started again. I don't know how much my dad had to drink when he hit the deer on his motorcycle. They never said that alcohol was a factor.
With all that said, my grandma and my dad didn't drink because they had some alcoholic gene...they drank because of emotional trauma that they never really processed thru.....and really...who can blame them? I know I've forgiven my dad for the crap he put on me. He didn't know how to cope with his pain. There weren't too many resources or as much knowledge as there is now about why people become addicted to things. Telling someone they are a drunkard and condemning them like some are prone to do is just further abuse on these poor people. I am ashamed that a christian would be so hateful to a hurting soul by yelling....SINNER, DRUNKARD or whatever. Those people need love, understanding and a friend with an ability to see past the outward condition of the man or woman who drinks to cope, and help them draw out the poison of emotional trauma that causes them to drink in the first place. We don't know what a person has been thru until we get to know them and we don't get to know them by calling them names and dehumanizing them with religious rhetoric. If I saw a person speaking to another human being like some do on here to people who may be hurting, I'd be as angry as Jesus was when he flipped over tables in the temple. Alcoholism is the outward expression of a soul that has been damaged. It is an attempt to find some peace from those demons. Quitting drinking and putting on a religious front doesn't make the demons go away....and I submit that religiosity is a far more cruel demon than alcohol.
G
Wow am I missing what you are saying here? Are you calling Christians that disagree with drinking self righteous prigs?! Just because I dont agree with drinking doesn't mean I "went after" anyone. As I shared,my uncle was a lifelong drunk. We prayed for him for years and he came to know the Lord on his deathbed. No one ever condemned him. And yet again may I remind people that the OP was about Christians drinking,not the unsaved. Now if you are a Christian and have no issue with drinking thats between you and God. I disagree with it but thats me. But if we are talking about a Christian becoming buzzed or drunk the Bible definitely warns against that. I didn't read much so I dont know what Sirk was doing, he's tricky sometimes But Im sure you agree brother that being drunk is something the Bible is against.
I'll follow that up with a great Christian man that was a friend of our family. He has since passed. Wonderful Christian but from time to time he would slip under stress and drink and get so drunk he couldn't find his way home. His wife would call my father who would go and find him and bring him home. He owned a popular restaurant in our town. Not one of us ever told a soul about his issue,we never brought it up to him,all we did was pray. Alcoholism is a very serious subject for those who have had the issue and their family and friends. I hope we keep that in mind as we continue to discuss the topic.
But Im sure you agree brother that being drunk is something the Bible is against. I'll follow that up with a great Christian man that was a friend of our family. He has since passed. Wonderful Christian but from time to time he would slip under stress and drink and get so drunk he couldn't find his way home. His wife would call my father who would go and find him and bring him home. He owned a popular restaurant in our town. Not one of us ever told a soul about his issue,we never brought it up to him,all we did was pray. Alcoholism is a very serious subject for those who have had the issue and their family and friends. I hope we keep that in mind as we continue to discuss the topic.
They are in a worse spot then the one drinking alcohol.
Gossip,bitterness,jealousy,maligning.........these are the real problems. To often I have heard," This isn't gossip(because I 'truly' care), but......" They will get a pass, and they are in a worse spot than the one they are gossiping about.
G
I am just as guilty. But most believers focus on the WHAT and not the WHY. God is concerned about the WHY, not so much the WHAT.
Why do most believers judge and condemn others for what they see others doing? Because we are actually focused on ourselves and WHAT we are doing. Our scale needs to tip in our favor.
Maybe it's different in other areas, but in my area......people are quick,I mean quick to judge and condemn what people are doing and even the person. And never stick around long enough to know WHY they were doing WHAT they were doing.
Why do most believers judge and condemn others for what they see others doing? Because we are actually focused on ourselves and WHAT we are doing. Our scale needs to tip in our favor.
Maybe it's different in other areas, but in my area......people are quick,I mean quick to judge and condemn what people are doing and even the person. And never stick around long enough to know WHY they were doing WHAT they were doing.
E
It is evident that many people here look at the SIN of the person and not the heart and condition of that same person.
While Jesus called on the sinners to repent, he also compared his position and their condition as a Doctor treating the sick.
Or as sheep who were lost and needed a shepherd.
I have ministered to many male and female murderers, rapists, robbers, child molesters/abusers, wife beaters, druggies, alcoholics, prostitutes homosexuals, who all carried out many of the works of the flesh.
I am afraid that many here would simply call these people SINNERS and would write them all off as untouchable and hopeless....and going to hell.
While the people above are SINNERS, their greatest SIN, is making themselves a god unto themselves and not believing in Jesus Christ and him crucified for their sins.
Their SIN is irrelevant to me. Their condition as lost compels me to love them and share the gospel with them. If you are led by the Spirit of God, he will show you the heart and condition of the person and you will have no regard for their SIN, because he sheds the love of God abroad in your heart to reach their condition, which is lost or sick, not attack them on their works of the flesh.
What the church is missing today is that people have truly lost hope and they are hurting and want something past the immoral lifestyles, the drugs, the booze, the greed, the jealousies, the enemy of comparison, the addictions, and above all the rules of organized religion.
Revival is happening in places you would least expect and will be ushered in by people, that 3/4 of the folks here say are headed for hell and were murderers, rapists, robbers, child molesters/abusers, wife beaters, druggies, alcoholics, prostitutes homosexuals, who all carried out many of the works of the flesh.
Some here would never receive a evangelist that has tattoos from his former life, has long hair, and rides a motorcycle...yet I know many such men of God that have more anointing in their pinkie than some of the posters here, believe they have in their whole body....
Many churches are also blind to the fact that the world view of Jesus Christ in the USA has shifted drastically.
50 or 60 years ago every home had a Bible and while it might have been dusty and never used, the family knew something about the Bible, including all the well known Bible stories most , if not all of us, grew up hearing as kids.
IOW, people knew about Samson, the 10 commandments and Moses, and David and Goliath, and Daniel and fiery furnace, etc.
That, and people you better have ears to hear has changed completely...
I have preached a message on the Exodus and had to stop because nobody in the room knew about or even knew who Moses was...Don't laugh or ridicule, its true....These wee just not kids and young people, but their parents in their 20's-30's
How can you go up to someone who has no Christian world view and then berate them for their "SIN"...they have no clue what in the world you are saying...
Some of you will easily dismiss this post has liberal christianese and worse...yet I know many foreign missionaries that were sent from their homes in Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia, South America, and parts of North America to come to America to share the nearly too good to be true Gospel of Jesus Christ with people.
While this is a blessing, it is also an indictment on the state of the USoA Church and her so called Christians....
While Jesus called on the sinners to repent, he also compared his position and their condition as a Doctor treating the sick.
Or as sheep who were lost and needed a shepherd.
I have ministered to many male and female murderers, rapists, robbers, child molesters/abusers, wife beaters, druggies, alcoholics, prostitutes homosexuals, who all carried out many of the works of the flesh.
I am afraid that many here would simply call these people SINNERS and would write them all off as untouchable and hopeless....and going to hell.
While the people above are SINNERS, their greatest SIN, is making themselves a god unto themselves and not believing in Jesus Christ and him crucified for their sins.
Their SIN is irrelevant to me. Their condition as lost compels me to love them and share the gospel with them. If you are led by the Spirit of God, he will show you the heart and condition of the person and you will have no regard for their SIN, because he sheds the love of God abroad in your heart to reach their condition, which is lost or sick, not attack them on their works of the flesh.
What the church is missing today is that people have truly lost hope and they are hurting and want something past the immoral lifestyles, the drugs, the booze, the greed, the jealousies, the enemy of comparison, the addictions, and above all the rules of organized religion.
Revival is happening in places you would least expect and will be ushered in by people, that 3/4 of the folks here say are headed for hell and were murderers, rapists, robbers, child molesters/abusers, wife beaters, druggies, alcoholics, prostitutes homosexuals, who all carried out many of the works of the flesh.
Some here would never receive a evangelist that has tattoos from his former life, has long hair, and rides a motorcycle...yet I know many such men of God that have more anointing in their pinkie than some of the posters here, believe they have in their whole body....
Many churches are also blind to the fact that the world view of Jesus Christ in the USA has shifted drastically.
50 or 60 years ago every home had a Bible and while it might have been dusty and never used, the family knew something about the Bible, including all the well known Bible stories most , if not all of us, grew up hearing as kids.
IOW, people knew about Samson, the 10 commandments and Moses, and David and Goliath, and Daniel and fiery furnace, etc.
That, and people you better have ears to hear has changed completely...
I have preached a message on the Exodus and had to stop because nobody in the room knew about or even knew who Moses was...Don't laugh or ridicule, its true....These wee just not kids and young people, but their parents in their 20's-30's
How can you go up to someone who has no Christian world view and then berate them for their "SIN"...they have no clue what in the world you are saying...
Some of you will easily dismiss this post has liberal christianese and worse...yet I know many foreign missionaries that were sent from their homes in Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia, South America, and parts of North America to come to America to share the nearly too good to be true Gospel of Jesus Christ with people.
While this is a blessing, it is also an indictment on the state of the USoA Church and her so called Christians....
The OP was not about Christians drinking, but about alcohol and anyone.
I specifically asked him and you can find his answer many pages back, here:
Q: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/141546-alcohol-17.html#post2789867
A #327
I specifically asked him and you can find his answer many pages back, here:
Q: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/141546-alcohol-17.html#post2789867
A #327