Alcohol

[Gr8grace]

It is evident that many people here look at the SIN of the person and not the heart and condition of that same person.
While Jesus called on the sinners to repent, he also compared his position and their condition as a Doctor treating the sick.
Or as sheep who were lost and needed a shepherd.

I have ministered to many male and female murderers, rapists, robbers, child molesters/abusers, wife beaters, druggies, alcoholics, prostitutes homosexuals, who all carried out many of the works of the flesh.

I am afraid that many here would simply call these people SINNERS and would write them all off as untouchable and hopeless....and going to hell.

While the people above are SINNERS, their greatest SIN, is making themselves a god unto themselves and not believing in Jesus Christ and him crucified for their sins.

Their SIN is irrelevant to me. Their condition as lost compels me to love them and share the gospel with them. If you are led by the Spirit of God, he will show you the heart and condition of the person and you will have no regard for their SIN, because he sheds the love of God abroad in your heart to reach their condition, which is lost or sick, not attack them on their works of the flesh.

What the church is missing today is that people have truly lost hope and they are hurting and want something past the immoral lifestyles, the drugs, the booze, the greed, the jealousies, the enemy of comparison, the addictions, and above all the rules of organized religion.

Revival is happening in places you would least expect and will be ushered in by people, that 3/4 of the folks here say are headed for hell and were murderers, rapists, robbers, child molesters/abusers, wife beaters, druggies, alcoholics, prostitutes homosexuals, who all carried out many of the works of the flesh.

Some here would never receive a evangelist that has tattoos from his former life, has long hair, and rides a motorcycle...yet I know many such men of God that have more anointing in their pinkie than some of the posters here, believe they have in their whole body....

Many churches are also blind to the fact that the world view of Jesus Christ in the USA has shifted drastically.

50 or 60 years ago every home had a Bible and while it might have been dusty and never used, the family knew something about the Bible, including all the well known Bible stories most , if not all of us, grew up hearing as kids.

IOW, people knew about Samson, the 10 commandments and Moses, and David and Goliath, and Daniel and fiery furnace, etc.

That, and people you better have ears to hear has changed completely...

I have preached a message on the Exodus and had to stop because nobody in the room knew about or even knew who Moses was...Don't laugh or ridicule, its true....These wee just not kids and young people, but their parents in their 20's-30's

How can you go up to someone who has no Christian world view and then berate them for their "SIN"...they have no clue what in the world you are saying...

Some of you will easily dismiss this post has liberal christianese and worse...yet I know many foreign missionaries that were sent from their homes in Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia, South America, and parts of North America to come to America to share the nearly too good to be true Gospel of Jesus Christ with people.

While this is a blessing, it is also an indictment on the state of the USoA Church and her so called Christians....

We are so sin focused anymore. And we are to be SON focused.


2 Cor 5:16~~New American Standard Bible
Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.

 

[Sirk]

Being compelled to repentance is a false conversion. Arriving at repentance in ones own heart is a real conversion. I've learned so much about this from raising my son. When he needs correction it is my job to help him solve a problem. Not condemn him for having a problem. It's sad that people who are commanded to reach the lost are unaware of the difference.

 

[eph610]

We are so sin focused anymore. And we are to be SON focused.


2 Cor 5:16~~New American Standard Bible
Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.

yes sin-consciousness doctrine is from the devil....The church loves to identify other peeps by their pasts, because it allows them to keep from coming to terms with their own junk...

 

[Stephen63]

@ Sirk,
Well said. But remember, the message is only as good as the reputation of the messenger. Please remember that.

 

[Magenta]

@ Sirk,
Well said. But remember, the message is only as good as the reputation of the messenger. Please remember that.

That is why God gave/gives the message to alcoholics and drug addicts

 

[Gr8grace]

While the people above are SINNERS, their greatest SIN, is making themselves a god unto themselves and not believing in Jesus Christ and him crucified for their sins.

Boy, you hit the nail on the head right here. satan is a master deceiver. he wants us to rid ourselves of sin and be 'good' by our own power..........make ourselves a god unto ourselves. Do it without Christ.

Since sin has been paid for and dealt with. What is left? Self righteousness. And that is what is judged for the unbeliever.

2 Cor 11:15~~King James Bible
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Rev 20:13~~King James Bible
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

[Sirk]

@ Sirk,
Well said. But remember, the message is only as good as the reputation of the messenger. Please remember that.

I suppose you are right. The thing is that I'm not to concerned about my reputation among men anymore. It's really a fruitless endeavor.

 

[Sirk]

Being offended by someone else's behavior and then castigating them for it speaks more to our own insecurities than it does about the other person...or at least it should if we truly are enlightened by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Stephen63]

yes sin-consciousness doctrine is from the devil....The church loves to identify other peeps by their pasts, because it allows them to keep from coming to terms with their own junk...

I identified a person just last night for what they were currently doing. He confessed to drinking 4 beers, getting a buzz off those 4 beers, claimed he wasn't drunk, but tipsy, & finally cussed about those who judge such things.

No amout of excuses about other ungodly people will cover it.

Folks need to remember that no person's actions/statements are a just cause to sin in retaliation. NOBODY is worth me losing my salvation over.

When we stand at the judgement bar, NO excuse is acceptable. Fix the problem now before having to pay later.

 

[AuntieAnt]

And some people run around the halls judging others from their lofty mountains like they are white as the driven snow speaking from whence they nought................

I don't doubt for a second that I sometimes come across self-righteous, Pollyanna. But I also take correction from loving folks here when they point out errors in me. I'd be a fool if I didn't want to grow in grace. I don't wanna be insensitive to people.

My weakness is when I see people doling out harsh criticisms to hurting folks but they themselves won't receive correction. They respond like, "How dare you even think I could be in error!" That's when my hackles go up and smoke comes outta my ears. I feel compelled to protect people from those who have no filter or who don't accept responsibility for their own bad behavior.

 

[AuntieAnt]

Addictions are coping skills. Addictions are borne out of anger, anxiety and depression. Anger anxiety and depression are the result of unprocessed emotional trauma. I'll tell you a little story.

My grandma lived in San Francisco and was a switchboard operator for Bell telephone company. When my dad was around 4 or 5 her husband left her for another woman and left them pretty penniless. This was in the early 50's. Unable to afford to keep my dad and his sister, they were placed in a catholic orphanage. My grandma was raped in an alley as she got off the bus after work. Her assailant stepped on her ankle and broke it. She was a closet vodka drinker and never let anyone help her in the kitchen when we were over for holiday dinners....I wonder why. Lol

My father once described for me the abuse he suffered at that home. They had specific potty times and if you didn't use them it was your problem. If you wet yourself you were beaten. My dad said he remembered sneaking a teddy bear from the play room into his bed and was caught with it and beaten. I also think that he was molested there but of that I am not sure. When my dad was 18 he went to california to find his dad. He went to his dads door and knocked. When the man came to the door and found out it was his son, he slammed the door in his face.

I only knew my grandma until I was about 15 or 16. My last memory of her is her dying in a hospital bed. She had been sober for 3 years. I still have a serenity prayer plaque that she gave my dad with a personal note congratulating him on his sobriety. My dad quit drinking too but later started again. I don't know how much my dad had to drink when he hit the deer on his motorcycle. They never said that alcohol was a factor.

With all that said, my grandma and my dad didn't drink because they had some alcoholic gene...they drank because of emotional trauma that they never really processed thru.....and really...who can blame them? I know I've forgiven my dad for the crap he put on me. He didn't know how to cope with his pain. There weren't too many resources or as much knowledge as there is now about why people become addicted to things. Telling someone they are a drunkard and condemning them like some are prone to do is just further abuse on these poor people. I am ashamed that a christian would be so hateful to a hurting soul by yelling....SINNER, DRUNKARD or whatever. Those people need love, understanding and a friend with an ability to see past the outward condition of the man or woman who drinks to cope, and help them draw out the poison of emotional trauma that causes them to drink in the first place. We don't know what a person has been thru until we get to know them and we don't get to know them by calling them names and dehumanizing them with religious rhetoric. If I saw a person speaking to another human being like some do on here to people who may be hurting, I'd be as angry as Jesus was when he flipped over tables in the temple. Alcoholism is the outward expression of a soul that has been damaged. It is an attempt to find some peace from those demons. Quitting drinking and putting on a religious front doesn't make the demons go away....and I submit that religiosity is a far more cruel demon than alcohol.

Wow... this story breaks my heart. I can relate, too. My family's history is tragic as well. Thank you for sharing this, Sirk and for showing compassion to those who are hurting.

 

[Sirk]

I identified a person just last night for what they were currently doing. He confessed to drinking 4 beers, getting a buzz off those 4 beers, claimed he wasn't drunk, but tipsy, & finally cussed about those who judge such things.

No amout of excuses about other ungodly people will cover it.

Folks need to remember that no person's actions/statements are a just cause to sin in retaliation. NOBODY is worth me losing my salvation over.

When we stand at the judgement bar, NO excuse is acceptable. Fix the problem now before having to pay later.

I expected judgement and some did not disappoint. And I am now left wondering how you can lose something you have yet to receive.

 

[resurrection33]

I think the Bible is self explanatory with that.. It says don't get drunk with wine. A person knows his or her limits. This thread shouldn't be 8 pages long and counting. So why are we still going at it, folks?

Maybe not everybody know his or her limits. It took me a while to figure that out. In the end I just stopped drinking.

 

[PollyAnna]

We are so sin focused anymore. And we are to be SON focused.


2 Cor 5:16~~New American Standard Bible
Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.

Sin focused? Is that what they are calling it these days? Lets focus on another word that seems to have been buried; HOLINESS

 

[PollyAnna]

I expected judgement and some did not disappoint. And I am now left wondering how you can lose something you have yet to receive.

Jeremiah 17:23
Yet they did not listen or pay attention; they were stiff-necked and would not listen or respond to discipline.

 

[Sirk]

Jeremiah 17:23
Yet they did not listen or pay attention; they were stiff-necked and would not listen or respond to discipline.

You'll be banned again soon...then this place can go back to imperfect people having relationship. How's all that brokenness with your children working out? Things have improved I hope but based on your attitude here I'm guessing it's still a giant steaming pile of poo. I don't expect you to be honest about that. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[PollyAnna]

I identified a person just last night for what they were currently doing. He confessed to drinking 4 beers, getting a buzz off those 4 beers, claimed he wasn't drunk, but tipsy, & finally cussed about those who judge such things.

No amout of excuses about other ungodly people will cover it.

Folks need to remember that no person's actions/statements are a just cause to sin in retaliation. NOBODY is worth me losing my salvation over.

When we stand at the judgement bar, NO excuse is acceptable. Fix the problem now before having to pay later.

This is an excerpt from the sermon I posted in BDF about holiness not being legalism. Many have a damnable noose around their necks and the behavior last night on this thread is evidence thereof. So many lost sheep deceived by doctrines of devils.

"I testify unto you, that if you still continue in sin, Christ shall profit you nothing. That Christ is no Savior to you, unless He saves you from your sins. And that unless it purifies your heart, faith shall profit you nothing. Oh, when will you understand, that to oppose either inward or outward holiness, under color of exalting Christ, is directly to act the part of Judas, to "betray the Son of man with a kiss?"

What? Make Christ destroy His own kingdom? Set Christ against holiness? Talk of Christ as saving His people in their sins? It is no better than to say, He saves them from the guilt, but not from the power, of sin. Will you make the righteousness of Christ a cover for the unrighteousness of man? So that by this means, "the unrighteous" of every kind "shall inherit the kingdom of God!" Stop! Consider! What are you doing? Who has corrupted you from the simplicity of Christ, from the purity of the gospel?
You did know, "He that believeth is born of God: And whosoever is born of God sinneth not" (1 John 3:9). O come back to the true, the pure, the old gospel! That which you received in the beginning. Come back to Christ, who died to make you a holy people, "zealous for good works" (Tit. 2:14). "Remember from whence you are fallen, and repent, and do the first works" (Rev. 2:5). For "wilt thou know, O vain," O empty "man, that faith without works is dead" (Jas. 2:17)? "

 

[Magenta]

You'll be banned again soon...

 

[PollyAnna]

You'll be banned again soon...then this place can go back to imperfect people having relationship. How's all that brokenness with your children working out? Things have improved I hope but based on your attitude here I'm guessing it's still a giant steaming pile of poo. I don't expect you to be honest about that. The proof is in the pudding.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Who what?
Your discernment is way off. It must have been drowned in alcohol

 

[Sirk]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Who what?
Your discernment is way off. It must have been drowned in alcohol

You're funny.....but mean. Makes perfect sense tho....people who haven't received grace are unable to give it.