A true Christian is a "follower" of Jesus Christ

[eternally-gratefull]

As long as you have the mindset of a worker, you have a higher chance of loosing your sight of what's really important. Just like in The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard, Matthew 20:1-16. Workers expected more rewards because their focus was in their work. But the message was simple, it was all grace.

Thats why God wants us to focus on him, and others (love God the first command, Others the second) and not self (what we do) and only in doing this will we fulfill the law

Doing Gods will is not obeying some rules and regulation, or command system. But serving God and others.. It is seeking after the things of the spirit. Not seeking after how well I am obeying some law..

Workers are focused on self and how well they do. They have to.. Which one must ask, Whe are they actually out serving others for God?? and more importantly. How much more time would I have to serve others if I was not so focused on how well I am performing.

 

[Stephen63]

To our readers: I apologize for the long post, but all these quotes have to be included.
As you read the first post, notice I NEVER mentioned works or a theology of works anywhere.

I'm gonna bring this up again, even though I sound like a broken record.

IF the Hypergracers are right, WHY are they fighting a death match of an argument with all the others against them? I know that sounds over the top, I said that to draw attention to the issue. IF they're right, then EVERY PERSON HERE WHO HAS CALLED ON JESUS TO SAVE THEM IS SAVED. Their arguments are useless & without merit, because ACCORDING TO THEIR DOCTRINE if ANY of us lead someone to Jesus "our way", they're saved, because we all believe enough of the same thing.

I'm asking non HG'ers to think in a "common sense", yes, carnal way to consider what I'm saying. I can see why "we" are arguing, because we don't believe it. BUT THEM? They ought to be loving, kind, & praising God that they are already winners, that we're all saved, & we're ALL going to heaven, no matter what, because none of our salvation can be revoked.

A Biblical example:
Philippians 1:15-18 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: [SUP]16 [/SUP]The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: [SUP]17 [/SUP]But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. [SUP]18 [/SUP]What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

See the point? Paul was rejoicing, because either way the gospel was preached!

So..... why are they arguing? Why are they united as one to win their cause in the BDF? When they could just tell us to get over ourselves, 'cause we're all going, like it or not? Why the attitudes, why the roughness, why must they win this thing, seemingly at all cost?

I submit that we know the answer, for according to our beliefs, we who change sides lose EVERYTHING. I also submit they're arguing to the end because they know that as well. They know where they're taking us. They know the real cost. (at least many of them do)

Look at how many of "us" have left CC because they're tired of it, yet they seem like it's nothing to them. They're increasing, just as the Bible said they would.

I'm suggesting that some of "them" are professionals at what they do, not just good ole' boys with a different opinion. Hired professionals.

Every time I mention this, arguments stop dramatically for a while, then increase again.

Does this sound crazy? We do know what kind of a world we live in, don't we? Satan's time is short, isn't it? The NWO is coming closer, isn't it? The church is falling away at breakneck speed, isn't it?

Pleeeze, say you'll consider what I've said. What do I gain If I'm telling you a lie? What would be my purpose to do that?

Nope, no works. Yet, Grandpa accuses me of that very thing:

You are trying to define Christianity, or "true" Christianity, as a religion of works. It's not. If you want a religion of works there are plenty of them out there to choose from.

Why would you want to pervert the good news? There must be a reason. I figure its because you just really don't understand. That's because I don't want to think bad of people, like they do things purposely evil.

Christianity is a religion where the sinner is saved by Grace, not by their works of righteousness, but by the Righteousness of Christ.

If you want to get real technical Christianity isn't even a religion, its a relationship, where the less is blessed by the better.

So when you come in to a place that is filled with Christians and you attempt to pervert what Christianity is you should probably expect at least a little opposition.

Romans 4:2-8
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


How come you don't know any of this??? You weren't taught? Or do you just not believe it to be true??

Do you think its fun for us to come in here and have to correct all your silliness?

If we were to just remain silent and let all you blind guides continue to lead people you will all end up in the ditch. We are hoping that we can lead a few to Christ. So He can open their eyes and they will know what is the True Way.

This is their method: Whenever someone posts anything against them, they will either cry "attack!" or "heresy hunters" or as this one has done, "teaching a salvation of works", or "legalists".

These are lies to deceive the unwary reader who's not paying attention to believe that the people who expose the doctrine of Hypergrace are enemies of Christ & Grace.

• Now, why would anyone have to lie to spread their doctrine? Because it's false.
• Why should someone who claims to be a christian who's "not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ" have to hide elements of what they believe instead of admitting to it all? Because it will indict them as false teachers.
• Why don't they quote the writings of their beloved leader, Joseph Prince, to refute the charges made against him? Because they are true. No writing or video exist that say otherwise. Can't quote what's not there, can you?

It's false from one end to the other. Also, Joseph Prince is now in the Top 5 or 10 of all time false teachers/prophets. He's also in the top 5 richest televangelists in the world. He fellowships with the likes of Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, & Kenneth Copeland, when the scriptures say we shouldn't as much as eat with them.

Dear reader, what else can we conclude from these things?

 

[Grace777x70]

This is their method: Whenever someone posts anything against them, they will either cry "attack!" or "heresy hunters" or as this one has done, "teaching a salvation of works", or "legalists".

These are lies to deceive the unwary reader who's not paying attention to believe that the people who expose the doctrine of Hypergrace are enemies of Christ & Grace.

• Now, why would anyone have to lie to spread their doctrine? Because it's false.
• Why should someone who claims to be a christian who's "not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ" have to hide elements of what they believe instead of admitting to it all? Because it will indict them as false teachers.
• Why don't they quote the writings of their beloved leader, Joseph Prince, to refute the charges made against him? Because they are true. No writing or video exist that say otherwise. Can't quote what's not there, can you?

It's false from one end to the other. Also, Joseph Prince is now in the Top 5 or 10 of all time false teachers/prophets. He's also in the top 5 richest televangelists in the world. He fellowships with the likes of Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, & Kenneth Copeland, when the scriptures say we shouldn't as much as eat with them.

Dear reader, what else can we conclude from these things?

The Dear Readers can conclude that what you are saying is not true at all and all the accusations against the teachings of the gospel of the grace of Christ have been proven to be false representations of what is really being said. This has been proven by actual real quotes and videos from the horse's mouth themselves when ever these false accusations have been brought up.

Some of it is that some people don't agree with some aspects of the true gospel of the grace of Christ as being presented by others and it "upsets" their religious beliefs and thus they turn into heretic-hunters.

There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.

There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham. Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin..etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies"

There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.

Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics". "If people don't believe the way that they do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.."

It's the nature of the beast.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a false teacher and a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To our readers: I apologize for the long post, but all these quotes have to be included.
As you read the first post, notice I NEVER mentioned works or a theology of works anywhere.
Nope, no works. Yet, Grandpa accuses me of that very thing:

This is their method: Whenever someone posts anything against them, they will either cry "attack!" or "heresy hunters" or as this one has done, "teaching a salvation of works", or "legalists".

These are lies to deceive the unwary reader who's not paying attention to believe that the people who expose the doctrine of Hypergrace are enemies of Christ & Grace.

• Now, why would anyone have to lie to spread their doctrine? Because it's false.
• Why should someone who claims to be a christian who's "not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ" have to hide elements of what they believe instead of admitting to it all? Because it will indict them as false teachers.
• Why don't they quote the writings of their beloved leader, Joseph Prince, to refute the charges made against him? Because they are true. No writing or video exist that say otherwise. Can't quote what's not there, can you?

It's false from one end to the other. Also, Joseph Prince is now in the Top 5 or 10 of all time false teachers/prophets. He's also in the top 5 richest televangelists in the world. He fellowships with the likes of Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, & Kenneth Copeland, when the scriptures say we shouldn't as much as eat with them.

Dear reader, what else can we conclude from these things?

To all readers. Steven has been here for ages,, All of us regulars know what he preaches, We did not get what he believes out of one post. So some respond to post makes, remember that the response may be directed at the base of what he believes, IE, we know the background.

As I have said before. there is only one gospel. The gospel that Steven follows is not the same gospel I follow. Hopefully one of us us right, and at least one will make it to heaven, The truth is, we could both be wrong ,and neither of us make it.

 

[Grace777x70]

To all readers. Steven has been here for ages,, All of us regulars know what he preaches, We did not get what he believes out of one post. So some respond to post makes, remember that the response may be directed at the base of what he believes, IE, we know the background.

As I have said before. there is only one gospel. The gospel that Steven follows is not the same gospel I follow. Hopefully one of us us right, and at least one will make it to heaven, The truth is, we could both be wrong ,and neither of us make it.

No, the most likely truth is that you are both saved. Stepehn63 believes we can lose our salvation so we must do things to keep it and you believe that Jesus said "I will never leave nor forsake you". With this belief you live the Christian life based on His life inside of you to lead you and to manifest Jesus to the world around you.

That's my take on it and I believe both of you will be in heaven because Jesus's word is true and He is faithful.

 

[gb9]

I have said this before, but here I go again:

Does Jesus save us, or does he provide and opportunity to be saved. depending on how one looks at this, it will produce a radically different view of out relationship with Christ.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

This is their method: Whenever someone posts anything against them, they will either cry "attack!" or "heresy hunters" or as this one has done, "teaching a salvation of works", or "legalists".

These are lies to deceive the unwary reader who's not paying attention to believe that the people who expose the doctrine of Hypergrace are enemies of Christ & Grace.

I don't know how anyone could be ignorant of this deceitful tactic because they do it in just about every thread. I just called out Mr. Twister for doing it in another thread. Lying and bearing false witness is like breathing to them, they think nothing of it.

Every time you see them use that tactic, call them out on it and ask them to prove where you have said as much, ask for a quote. Maybe by constantly exposing this deceitful straw man tactic it will stop, but I doubt it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, the most likely truth is that you are both saved. Stepehn63 believes we can lose our salvation so we must do things to keep it and you believe that Jesus said "I will never leave nor forsake you". With this belief you live the Christian life based on His life inside of you to lead you and to manifest Jesus to the world around you.

That's my take on it and I believe both of you will be in heaven because Jesus's word is true and He is faithful.

That would make God a God of confusion, And many gospels applicable to salvation. That would be universalism, I am sorry, But I must disagree.

 

[PeterJens]

PeterJens works very hard to gain his own salvation with Christ. God bless you, brother.

Let me ask a few simple questions about effort in following the Lord.

The lie above is I am gaining my own salvation. No, I am walking in my salvation.
A man who has been given a house does not have to work for it, it is his.
But the Lord who gave him the house asks him to do other things.

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
2 Tim 4:7

And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:27

However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the good news of God’s grace.
Acts 20:24

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
1 Cor 9:24

You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth?
Gal 5:7

And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Heb 12:1-3

I consider it an insult and slander to miss-represent me. You call yourselves believers
but have no fear to lie about Gods anointed, the elect, the people of the most high.

How strange that you claim to know Him and do not understand His ways.

Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
1 John 4:20

You hate me, and so cannot love God, so are lying to yourself. It sounds harsh but
I am simply standing on Christs words and His promises.

Maybe because so few of you have seen death up close and personal you have no sense
of fear of shame to bring the name of the Lord into disrepute. But this is the point, if you
were really alive in Christ you would not behave this way.

The ethic appears to be laziness and dismissal. It is a sad day when we have so much freedom
and wealth that those who claim to follow His gospel are so self indulgent and blind to sin.

 

[PeterJens]

What is eternal and what is temporary?

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
1 Cor 13:8

You can really tell where the gospel resides. It is in purity, holiness and righteousness.
It is in love and care that cannot be faulted. It is in being able to help because you freely
can and take pleasure in sharing what God has placed in your heart.

This is being a light to the world. Jesus is the source because it is through Him we have
seen the power and depth of love, and it will well up like a spring if we dwell in the Holy Spirit.

So why the disputes and conflict. Because some have never arrived and they want someone
to blame, and it is the enemy. But think on this, if they have not yet arrived and are living and
sharing this light, then surely their position is meaningless. But hey they have an answer, in their
faith they never arrive, and do not even know what arriving or being with God is. Gods heart is too
difficult to be "one" with, or to know His "will", it is just a mystical mystery.

But I know what Gods will is, love through Christ, and his desire for us, that we might walk in all His
ways, that we will show the victory of the cross over sin, and grow in communion and fellowship one
with another. So I encourage you, reach out, ask the Lord to give you more of the Holy Spirit so you
too can walk in this glorious path of light, life and love. The darkness that crowds in are the lies of the
enemy which you can banish through faith, if you truly believe Jesus and His word.

 

[Officermayo]

To our readers: I apologize for the long post, but all these quotes have to be included.
As you read the first post, notice I NEVER mentioned works or a theology of works anywhere.
Nope, no works. Yet, Grandpa accuses me of that very thing:

This is their method: Whenever someone posts anything against them, they will either cry "attack!" or "heresy hunters" or as this one has done, "teaching a salvation of works", or "legalists".

These are lies to deceive the unwary reader who's not paying attention to believe that the people who expose the doctrine of Hypergrace are enemies of Christ & Grace.

• Now, why would anyone have to lie to spread their doctrine? Because it's false.
• Why should someone who claims to be a christian who's "not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ" have to hide elements of what they believe instead of admitting to it all? Because it will indict them as false teachers.
• Why don't they quote the writings of their beloved leader, Joseph Prince, to refute the charges made against him? Because they are true. No writing or video exist that say otherwise. Can't quote what's not there, can you?

It's false from one end to the other. Also, Joseph Prince is now in the Top 5 or 10 of all time false teachers/prophets. He's also in the top 5 richest televangelists in the world. He fellowships with the likes of Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, & Kenneth Copeland, when the scriptures say we shouldn't as much as eat with them.

Dear reader, what else can we conclude from these things?

I conclude that if any curious non believers stumble upon this forum they will have plenty of ammo to say Christians are fake and don't practice the love of Jesus that they preach so loudly. Why does it have to be like this? Why can't it be like this:

A. I think THIS.
B. I disagree with you and here's why.
A. I see your point but I stand by my post.
B. Ok. God bless.

 

[Grace777x70]

That would make God a God of confusion, And many gospels applicable to salvation. That would be universalism, I am sorry, But I must disagree.

I don't see it as that way. I see it as we all are growing in our awareness of what Christ has done for us.

The work-based salvationsts say we have to maintain our righteousness by doing good deeds whereas the grace believers that we are saved by grace through faith alone in what Christ has done - and that good works will follow a true believer in Christ.

Works-based salvtionsists are just as saved as others only they have been taught that they have to "do things" to keep salvation. Their minds need to be renewed to the truth of the gospel just like everyone else does.

We all came to Christ ( hopefully ) at one point in our lives when we heard the good news and we believed and the we were sealed with the Holy Spirit after. This makes all of us saved no matter what men's traditions we were taught after coming to Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

I do agree with you that there is only one true gospel and it is the good news of Jesus Christ Himself and what He has done for us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is eternal and what is temporary?

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
1 Cor 13:8

You can really tell where the gospel resides. It is in purity, holiness and righteousness.
It is in love and care that cannot be faulted. It is in being able to help because you freely
can and take pleasure in sharing what God has placed in your heart.

This is being a light to the world. Jesus is the source because it is through Him we have
seen the power and depth of love, and it will well up like a spring if we dwell in the Holy Spirit.

So why the disputes and conflict. Because some have never arrived and they want someone
to blame, and it is the enemy. But think on this, if they have not yet arrived and are living and
sharing this light, then surely their position is meaningless. But hey they have an answer, in their
faith they never arrive, and do not even know what arriving or being with God is. Gods heart is too
difficult to be "one" with, or to know His "will", it is just a mystical mystery.

But I know what Gods will is, love through Christ, and his desire for us, that we might walk in all His
ways, that we will show the victory of the cross over sin, and grow in communion and fellowship one
with another. So I encourage you, reach out, ask the Lord to give you more of the Holy Spirit so you
too can walk in this glorious path of light, life and love. The darkness that crowds in are the lies of the
enemy which you can banish through faith, if you truly believe Jesus and His word.

What is eternal?

Well Jesus calls this "life in Christ" Based on his "Grace and forgiveness" Eternal life.

He says whoever has faith in him has possession of this thing he called eternal life

He said whoever has it will live forever (hence the term ETERNAL life)

and he said whoever places their trust in him will recieve it.

So anyone who says this "life in Christ" given to a person the moment God saves him is anyhting but "eternal" makes God out to be a liar.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't see it as that way. I see it as we all are growing in our awareness of what Christ has done for us.

The work-based salvationsts say we have to maintain our righteousness by doing good deeds whereas the grace believers that we are saved by grace through faith alone in what Christ has done - and that good works will follow a true believer in Christ.

Works-based salvtionsists are just as saved as others only they have been taught that they have to "do things" to keep salvation. Their minds need to be renewed to the truth of the gospel just like everyone else does.

We all came to Christ ( hopefully ) at one point in our lives when we heard the good news and we believed and the we were sealed with the Holy Spirit after. This makes all of us saved no matter what men's traditions we were taught after coming to Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

I do agree with you that there is only one true gospel and it is the good news of Jesus Christ Himself and what He has done for us.

I disagree for the following reason.

1. The works salvationist faith is in himself, and in his works, NOT in Christ. They reject salvation by faith in Christ, thus reject Christ.

2. While a person who is truly saved may have legalistic tendencies (ie, How can I be saved if I do these things, or if I do not change God will not love me anymore etc etc) That is different than someone who is depending on human works to gain salvation.

Paul is adament that those who try to work to earn salvation have brough a different gospel, which is not a gospel itself and has no power to save.

I can not judge Stephen or anyone else. But I know our gospels do not match, and thus both of us in our current state will not enter heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I conclude that if any curious non believers stumble upon this forum they will have plenty of ammo to say Christians are fake and don't practice the love of Jesus that they preach so loudly. Why does it have to be like this? Why can't it be like this:

A. I think THIS.
B. I disagree with you and here's why.
A. I see your point but I stand by my post.
B. Ok. God bless.

it would be great wouldn't it

This may even be called a discussion forum, Not a do as I say or else fofum..lol

 

[PeterJens]

I conclude that if any curious non believers stumble upon this forum they will have plenty of ammo to say Christians are fake and don't practice the love of Jesus that they preach so loudly. Why does it have to be like this? Why can't it be like this:

A. I think THIS.
B. I disagree with you and here's why.
A. I see your point but I stand by my post.
B. Ok. God bless.

You are right, but if people want to lie, make up what someone is saying different to
what they actually believe and hold to, and then condemn them as an evil hypocrite, it shows
that part of being a christian is in carefully following what people say they believe and respecting
it.

I never thought I would think a group of believers truly would lie and cause trouble only
to defame people who are almost exactly the same as them, without realising it is an own goal.

Except ofcourse if the spirit behind it all desires only to bring about disrepute to the gospel.

This is why by their fruit you will know them. If you appear to be a sheep but behave like a wolf
that is what you are.

 

[PeterJens]

It makes you wonder, or at least it makes me wonder.

Love God, love your neighbour, love your enemy, practice love, remember love,
God showed His love for us, let your love shine like a light.

It is like picking up a sponge soaked in honey and saying water is the major part.

And in the end it is not my argument or my gospel, I am merely a testimony to my
Lord.

We talked at house group about why fire is related to the Holy Spirit. Our thoughts
turned to purification, burning up the dross to leave a refined whole.

Paul talks about purifying oneself.

Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1

Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
James 4:8

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
1 John 3:3

Love, Gods love purifies us, because it is pure and holy.

But sadly people have so little faith in the work Christ has done in them, and condemn
themselves as sinners unworthy of Christs love and affection, that this is a dream they
can never aspire to. It is like saying the gospel is too wonderful to believe, much better
to leave ourselves as sinners and God as other and distant. Very religious, though funnily
this group say they are not religious at all.

Oddly also they say they know Christ personally, yet do not know most of what he spoke
about was how to love others and love God.

 

[blessedjohn80]

"PeterJens works very hard to gain his own salvation with Christ. God bless you, brother."

The lie above is I am gaining my own salvation. No, I am walking in my salvation.

I merely stated what my understanding of your way of salvation is. But I apologize if I have misrepresented you.
I purposely wrote "salvation with Christ" because you so often say that you are in a relationship with Christ and I believe you are sincere about what you say. So I'm not sure why you would call it a lie.

A man who has been given a house does not have to work for it, it is his.
But the Lord who gave him the house asks him to do other things.

It's good that we agree on this salvation analogy. Salvation is ours and with that we can do good works! Not from our own resources but from the unlimited resources of God through His salvation!

You call yourselves believers but have no fear to lie about Gods anointed, the elect, the people of the most high.

Yes, I call myself a believer of Christ Jesus! But please do show me where I lied.

You hate me, and so cannot love God, so are lying to yourself. It sounds harsh but
I am simply standing on Christs words and His promises.

No, I do not hate you, nor did I display any hateful words towards you in that post. Thankfully though, by God's grace, I'm not that easily offended, so sounding harsh towards me is fine.

Maybe because so few of you have seen death up close and personal you have no sense
of fear of shame to bring the name of the Lord into disrepute. But this is the point, if you
were really alive in Christ you would not behave this way.

I don't speak for those other people who you speak of, but for me, life or death experiences(which are carnal/works based) shouldn't be the basis for anyone to bring the name of the Lord into disrepute. And yes, I am alive in Christ! My behavior, in my own understanding, is as common as to most Christians that I know, which is to be loving just as God first loved me, be forgiving, just as God first forgave me, gracious just as God first showed grace to me.

By heart we all know this, I don't know if you yourself believe it, but I'm pretty sure that you feel it. The goodness that you have in you didn't really come from you but by the grace that God placed in you so that through you His goodness will be glorified for all to see.

The ethic appears to be laziness and dismissal. It is a sad day when we have so much freedom
and wealth that those who claim to follow His gospel are so self indulgent and blind to sin.

Again, if that's how you also see me as then that's that. In the end, the point of my post to you was to state something what I thought best described your belief in salvation. It was never to insult you.

I think the reason why most people don't get you is because sometimes you're vague with your words. If you are firm in what you really believe then even a single sentence should be enough to clear things up regarding your way of salvation, right? Like, has Jesus really saved you or has He only showed you the way to salvation? Who's really doing the salvation? Is it all Jesus, or partially Jesus and the rest up to you?

I read your posts here and there and what I notice is that even in heated discussions, most of the time, you end your posts by glorifying God and Christ Jesus, to me, that's what really matters. God bless you PeterJens. God should be glorified in the end.

God is just too good. Peace.

 

[blessedjohn80]

We all came to Christ ( hopefully ) at one point in our lives when we heard the good news and we believed and the we were sealed with the Holy Spirit after. This makes all of us saved no matter what men's traditions we were taught after coming to Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

I do agree with you that there is only one true gospel and it is the good news of Jesus Christ Himself and what He has done for us.

I also agree with this. Faith does not come from within us after all, faith comes from God. A Christians faith is like a seed, some have fully blossomed but some are still growing. Size of the faith isn't an issue in salvation, if you believe that Jesus has saved you then it is not you who will ultimately follow through, it's God. Because He is faithful, and He will do what He promises to do.

Also, twisting the gospel isn't the only reason why the devil disguises as one of the sheep but to also let the true Christians condemn each other to shake their faith.

The way I see it, we are all members of the same body having Christ as the head. I know that some may seem to be fake Christians but I must not condemn them with my own understanding but instead believe and trust in God's plan for them. If focusing too much in myself can lead me away from God's love, then how much more lost will I be if I focus too much in someone else's faith? But even if I do get myself lost, God will still look for me and save me. If He can do that for me, then He can surely do it for everybody else.

Anyway, that's my understanding of it. God bless and peace.

 

[Cee]

I don't know how anyone could be ignorant of this deceitful tactic because they do it in just about every thread. I just called out Mr. Twister for doing it in another thread. Lying and bearing false witness is like breathing to them, they think nothing of it.

Every time you see them use that tactic, call them out on it and ask them to prove where you have said as much, ask for a quote. Maybe by constantly exposing this deceitful straw man tactic it will stop, but I doubt it.

I will answer you.

If you can lose your salvation by not doing works. It would stand to reason you believe that you need works to stay saved. Thus you are espousing a "works based salvation".

Here's what I am confident about:

Phil 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

If you don't believe you need works to stay saved then glory to God.

If you believe faith produces works then glory to God.