A true Christian is a "follower" of Jesus Christ

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm gonna bring this up again, even though I sound like a broken record.

IF the Hypergracers are right, WHY are they fighting a death match of an argument with all the others against them? I know that sounds over the top, I said that to draw attention to the issue. IF they're right, then EVERY PERSON HERE WHO HAS CALLED ON JESUS TO SAVE THEM IS SAVED. Their arguments are useless & without merit, because ACCORDING TO THEIR DOCTRINE if ANY of us lead someone to Jesus "our way", they're saved, because we all believe enough of the same thing.

I'm asking non HG'ers to think in a "common sense", yes, carnal way to consider what I'm saying. I can see why "we" are arguing, because we don't believe it. BUT THEM? They ought to be loving, kind, & praising God that they are already winners, that we're all saved, & we're ALL going to heaven, no matter what, because none of our salvation can be revoked.

A Biblical example:
Philippians 1:15-18 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: [SUP]16 [/SUP]The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: [SUP]17 [/SUP]But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. [SUP]18 [/SUP]What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

See the point? Paul was rejoicing, because either way the gospel was preached!

So..... why are they arguing? Why are they united as one to win their cause in the BDF? When they could just tell us to get over ourselves, 'cause we're all going, like it or not? Why the attitudes, why the roughness, why must they win this thing, seemingly at all cost?

I submit that we know the answer, for according to our beliefs, we who change sides lose EVERYTHING. I also submit they're arguing to the end because they know that as well. They know where they're taking us. They know the real cost. (at least many of them do)

Look at how many of "us" have left CC because they're tired of it, yet they seem like it's nothing to them. They're increasing, just as the Bible said they would.

I'm suggesting that some of "them" are professionals at what they do, not just good ole' boys with a different opinion. Hired professionals.

Every time I mention this, arguments stop dramatically for a while, then increase again.

Does this sound crazy? We do know what kind of a world we live in, don't we? Satan's time is short, isn't it? The NWO is coming closer, isn't it? The church is falling away at breakneck speed, isn't it?

Pleeeze, say you'll consider what I've said. What do I gain If I'm telling you a lie? What would be my purpose to do that?

1. Not everyone is against them, Only a few select people, The same people who open thread after thread after thread attacking them.
2. You can not claim you have called on Jesus to save you, if you are still trying to save yourself (even though you deny you are doing this, Just the mere fact you think you can sin your way out of grace proves you are)
3. We are not in the same house, We teach apposing Gospels..

We can not come together where we agree, because of our gospel difference. Paul said there is one gospel. Not two not three not for (that is universalism)

 

[blessedjohn80]

Here is Godly sorrow vs self righteous sorrow.

The pharisee, Praised God he was not like the sinner (in this case like the hypergrace/grace believer who trusts God alone but loves their sin) And praised all the work they did

The tax collector. So understanding of how sinful he is, unable to even look up to heaven, Said God pleasehave mercy on my soul.

WHo did Jesus say went home justified? The religious pharisee legalist. Or the hypergrace sinner? who just repented, got on his knees and cried out to the lord in prayer?

I think you got it the other way around. The tax collector is the grace believer not the pharisee. And it's contradictory to say one who trusts in God alone but loves to sin.

 

[blessedjohn80]

I think I may have misunderstood your thought. I think I got what you mean now. Pardon me.

 

[wolfwint]

yes bro it is true. what Christ taught during His earthly ministry,doesn't fall under the new testament. see this, a testament is only valid after the death of the testator. so can you see that pls? by the way Jesus Christ during His earthly ministry was the minister of the circumcision that is the Jews ( Rom 15:8)

So them what with Matthew 28, 18-20? For whom should this be? As Chester said, the whole NT is
equal for us, but we have to look for the context.Not everything is for us today.

 

[PeterJens]

I'm gonna bring this up again, even though I sound like a broken record.

IF the Hypergracers are right, WHY are they fighting a death match of an argument with all the others against them? I know that sounds over the top, I said that to draw attention to the issue. IF they're right, then EVERY PERSON HERE WHO HAS CALLED ON JESUS TO SAVE THEM IS SAVED. Their arguments are useless & without merit, because ACCORDING TO THEIR DOCTRINE if ANY of us lead someone to Jesus "our way", they're saved, because we all believe enough of the same thing.

The truth is they are lying.
It is hard to realise from the moment they open their mouths they lie and miss-represent.

And their favourite hobby is to come here and tear down any faithful believer, if they do not immediately
bow the knee to HG.

And because you are then a labelled enemy, no limit on their techniques of attack is off the table.

It is not odd for liars, but it is odd if they actually believed the grace they claim to follow.

 

[PeterJens]

1. Not everyone is against them, Only a few select people, The same people who open thread after thread after thread attacking them.
2. You can not claim you have called on Jesus to save you, if you are still trying to save yourself (even though you deny you are doing this, Just the mere fact you think you can sin your way out of grace proves you are)
3. We are not in the same house, We teach apposing Gospels..

We can not come together where we agree, because of our gospel difference. Paul said there is one gospel. Not two not three not for (that is universalism)

"if you are still trying to save yourself"

Here is the lie. They believe they can see by telltell signs who is trying to save themselves
so does not know Jesus and who does know Jesus.

Funnily Jesus says the only way you know this truth is by their fruit.

And you will also find condemnation of "fruit inspectors" from this group.

Now fruit is the words and approach to people a teaching creates.
And the fruit here is condemnation of people who have put their trust in Christ.

As a christian of 30+ years you become aware of many walks and views of Christ.
But my position is to bare fruit and be a blessing, meeting needs and sharing love.
If obvious sin is there to confront it, because it destroys all who it touches.

So the devious lie is there is a ministry of condemnation and exposing believers as
evil legalists when this is all a lie, no ministry exists, and this is not how you find
or define legalism.

Now this lying is the fruit of a lost heart, and one that whatever has happened to
them they are just not following Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"if you are still trying to save yourself"

Here is the lie. They believe they can see by telltell signs who is trying to save themselves
so does not know Jesus and who does know Jesus.

Funnily Jesus says the only way you know this truth is by their fruit.

And you will also find condemnation of "fruit inspectors" from this group.

Now fruit is the words and approach to people a teaching creates.
And the fruit here is condemnation of people who have put their trust in Christ.

As a christian of 30+ years you become aware of many walks and views of Christ.
But my position is to bare fruit and be a blessing, meeting needs and sharing love.
If obvious sin is there to confront it, because it destroys all who it touches.

So the devious lie is there is a ministry of condemnation and exposing believers as
evil legalists when this is all a lie, no ministry exists, and this is not how you find
or define legalism.

Now this lying is the fruit of a lost heart, and one that whatever has happened to
them they are just not following Jesus.

It is a lie huh?

What did you say?

The first step is obedience

Yep. those are your words. You claim one must be obedient or they will not be saved, (our works come first) then if we do not remain obedient, salvation will be lost.

That is trying to earn your way. You can spin it however you want, It does not change the fact, If obedience comes FIRST, or comes to SUSTAIN, then you are teaching works.

As paul said, Are you so foolish having begun in the spirit (grace) are you now being perfect in the flesh (by your works)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think you got it the other way around. The tax collector is the grace believer not the pharisee. And it's contradictory to say one who trusts in God alone but loves to sin.

You did not understand what I was saying. I claimed the tax collector was the grace believer.

And I am not the one who says i trust in God alone an dlove my sin, It is the legalists who claim we say this..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The truth is they are lying.
It is hard to realise from the moment they open their mouths they lie and miss-represent.

And their favourite hobby is to come here and tear down any faithful believer, if they do not immediately
bow the knee to HG.

And because you are then a labelled enemy, no limit on their techniques of attack is off the table.

It is not odd for liars, but it is odd if they actually believed the grace they claim to follow.

lol.. Who is the one who loves to come in and tear down others? who is opening thread after thread tearing down other believers?

You should listen to yourself. You always blame others for doing the very thing you yourself do over and over again.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I think you got it the other way around. The tax collector is the grace believer not the pharisee. And it's contradictory to say one who trusts in God alone but loves to sin.

Here is also a contradiction in his scenario--->>>

Or the hypergrace sinner? who just repented,

If you know anything about the "hyper grace" teachings, they do not believe they have to repent of sins. So once again we see they are entangled and snared in their own false doctrine beliefs.

 

[PeterJens]

Got to say this lie is interesting "who is opening thread after thread tearing down other believers"

I open threads to answer questions. Now if the answer to the question puts some in a good
light and others in a bad light, it is the truth that does this and not me.

So the questions have been,
"Can we walk righteously"
"Should we have a pure heart"
"Can a christian be possessed"

There are many others. I am interested in the answers from a biblical perspective,
because I desire to walk in these things, to aspire and conquer, to know Christ more deeply.

Now slander can be said in a few words, and lying comes so simply, but checking the facts
and bringing examples is actually the way you prove points.

And this is my point, the above is a lie, which both is an example of what I am talking about
and proof I am speaking the truth about the character of the poster, though he is completely
blind to it, and all his enemies know is his main tactic.

Do you know how much it matters to him when he lies? Zero, because he is only lying to satan's
scum. This is how the real enemy takes over a soul and completely deludes them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is also a contradiction in his scenario--->>>

If you know anything about the "hyper grace" teachings, they do not believe they have to repent of sins. So once again we see they are entangled and snared in their own false doctrine beliefs.

And here we go again, Slander, False truth. How this person can sit with a straight face and say he is following God and lie like this is beyond me.

A HG person or Grace person understands, One has to repent completely before their can be any faith. A person who just slightly repents of some things would never trust God. He is still trusting in self. or just playing a game.

So please. Stop with your lies.. And do what you demand others do. and repent of your slanderous ways.

 

[Grandpa]

I'm gonna bring this up again, even though I sound like a broken record.

IF the Hypergracers are right, WHY are they fighting a death match of an argument with all the others against them? I know that sounds over the top, I said that to draw attention to the issue. IF they're right, then EVERY PERSON HERE WHO HAS CALLED ON JESUS TO SAVE THEM IS SAVED. Their arguments are useless & without merit, because ACCORDING TO THEIR DOCTRINE if ANY of us lead someone to Jesus "our way", they're saved, because we all believe enough of the same thing.

I'm asking non HG'ers to think in a "common sense", yes, carnal way to consider what I'm saying. I can see why "we" are arguing, because we don't believe it. BUT THEM? They ought to be loving, kind, & praising God that they are already winners, that we're all saved, & we're ALL going to heaven, no matter what, because none of our salvation can be revoked.

A Biblical example:
Philippians 1:15-18 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: [SUP]16 [/SUP]The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: [SUP]17 [/SUP]But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. [SUP]18 [/SUP]What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

See the point? Paul was rejoicing, because either way the gospel was preached!

So..... why are they arguing? Why are they united as one to win their cause in the BDF? When they could just tell us to get over ourselves, 'cause we're all going, like it or not? Why the attitudes, why the roughness, why must they win this thing, seemingly at all cost?

I submit that we know the answer, for according to our beliefs, we who change sides lose EVERYTHING. I also submit they're arguing to the end because they know that as well. They know where they're taking us. They know the real cost. (at least many of them do)

Look at how many of "us" have left CC because they're tired of it, yet they seem like it's nothing to them. They're increasing, just as the Bible said they would.

I'm suggesting that some of "them" are professionals at what they do, not just good ole' boys with a different opinion. Hired professionals.

Every time I mention this, arguments stop dramatically for a while, then increase again.

Does this sound crazy? We do know what kind of a world we live in, don't we? Satan's time is short, isn't it? The NWO is coming closer, isn't it? The church is falling away at breakneck speed, isn't it?

Pleeeze, say you'll consider what I've said. What do I gain If I'm telling you a lie? What would be my purpose to do that?

You are trying to define Christianity, or "true" Christianity, as a religion of works. It's not. If you want a religion of works there are plenty of them out there to choose from.

Why would you want to pervert the good news? There must be a reason. I figure its because you just really don't understand. That's because I don't want to think bad of people, like they do things purposely evil.

Christianity is a religion where the sinner is saved by Grace, not by their works of righteousness, but by the Righteousness of Christ.

If you want to get real technical Christianity isn't even a religion, its a relationship, where the less is blessed by the better.

So when you come in to a place that is filled with Christians and you attempt to pervert what Christianity is you should probably expect at least a little opposition.

Romans 4:2-8
[FONT=&quot]2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


How come you don't know any of this??? You weren't taught? Or do you just not believe it to be true??

Do you think its fun for us to come in here and have to correct all your silliness?

If we were to just remain silent and let all you blind guides continue to lead people you will all end up in the ditch. We are hoping that we can lead a few to Christ. So He can open their eyes and they will know what is the True Way.[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Got to say this lie is interesting "who is opening thread after thread tearing down other believers"

I open threads to answer questions. Now if the answer to the question puts some in a good
light and others in a bad light, it is the truth that does this and not me.

So the questions have been,
"Can we walk righteously"
"Should we have a pure heart"
"Can a christian be possessed"

There are many others. I am interested in the answers from a biblical perspective,
because I desire to walk in these things, to aspire and conquer, to know Christ more deeply.

Now slander can be said in a few words, and lying comes so simply, but checking the facts
and bringing examples is actually the way you prove points.

And this is my point, the above is a lie, which both is an example of what I am talking about
and proof I am speaking the truth about the character of the poster, though he is completely
blind to it, and all his enemies know is his main tactic.

Do you know how much it matters to him when he lies? Zero, because he is only lying to satan's
scum. This is how the real enemy takes over a soul and completely deludes them.

So your saying your group has not opened thread after thread after thread of anti Hypergrace or anti Joseph prince rhetoric? Should I go back and count the number of threads which have been opened with thiese things or other things like them in mind?

smh,, no wonder.. You can;t even admit when your wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you want to get real technical Christianity isn't even a religion, its a relationship, where the less is blessed by the better.

Wow, Love it, so true,, A relationship with Abba Father.. Something the jews could never grasp. which is why they could never grasp Jesus as messiah..

 

[PeterJens]

Here is also a contradiction in his scenario--->>>

If you know anything about the "hyper grace" teachings, they do not believe they have to repent of sins. So once again we see they are entangled and snared in their own false doctrine beliefs.

ISIT - on this point it is very difficult to have a meaningful conversation with them, because
you do not know which version of the words they are meaning when quoting scripture or even
speaking for themselves.

Now only someone who is happy with lying and hiding the truth uses these tactics. It creates
confusion, and means obvious lies and contradictions can be hidden.

When you try and clarify their beliefs they mainly lie and cover them up, because they do not
really make sense to themselves, but cannot face this fact, so have to create a version that
does.

One person tried the slander, even satan knows scripture so well he can deceive the elect.
Jesus showed in reality, with the Holy Spirit nothing conquers us. If scripture stops you in
your tracks, it is God speaking, so listen to it and work it through.

But make everything obscure, hidden, confused, boy you can get away with murder.
This fruit alone should make anyone go, yikes, not of the Lord.

 

[Grandpa]

So your saying your group has not opened thread after thread after thread of anti Hypergrace or anti Joseph prince rhetoric? Should I go back and count the number of threads which have been opened with thiese things or other things like them in mind?

smh,, no wonder.. You can;t even admit when your wrong.

I don't think I would lump them into one group.

They each have their individual problems.

They just group together for their common philosophy of a works righteousness. They don't want to call it that. But that's what it is.


Ok. You were saved. Now get back to work.

What? I thought we weren't saved by works?

You're not. But you still have to do them.

I don't get it? Why?

Otherwise you won't be saved. You'll be under condemnation and death.

So we are saved by works?

No.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ISIT - on this point it is very difficult to have a meaningful conversation with them, because
you do not know which version of the words they are meaning when quoting scripture or even
speaking for themselves.

Now only someone who is happy with lying and hiding the truth uses these tactics. It creates
confusion, and means obvious lies and contradictions can be hidden.

When you try and clarify their beliefs they mainly lie and cover them up, because they do not
really make sense to themselves, but cannot face this fact, so have to create a version that
does.

One person tried the slander, even satan knows scripture so well he can deceive the elect.
Jesus showed in reality, with the Holy Spirit nothing conquers us. If scripture stops you in
your tracks, it is God speaking, so listen to it and work it through.

But make everything obscure, hidden, confused, boy you can get away with murder.
This fruit alone should make anyone go, yikes, not of the Lord.

There is no confusion, The only confusion is in your mind, Because you make it one.

Repent, One can not come to God and have faith UNTIL THEY REPENT.

Repent means to empty yourself of all you have, and give it all to Christ (a complete 180)

One who has not done this, has not repented, because he refuses to take his or herself out of the equation. How can you know who these people are?

1. They claim salvation is wrought by obedience, A person who repented would never say this, because they have understood, No amount of obedience would wipe away one sin, let alone the many sins they have committed, Not to mention, No matter how Good they are, they STILL will not be good enough.

2. The claim salvation is origionate in faith, but must be maintained by proper obedience, to fall into sin, one will lose salvation. Again, A person who truly repented would never say this, Because they not only know they needed saved by Gods grace and mercy, They know they will never live up To Gods standard. So they continue to run the race, Not to keep saved, But to please God.

3. I person who has not truely repented will always focus on certain sins, They will always slam these sins, and use it as an argument against others. Yet all the while ignoring their own sin is just as bad as those sins, And either claim they 1. Do not sin anymore, make mistakes every now and then, or three claim they do not do the "pet" sins mentioned earlier, so they are ok..

You can not understand what people believe peter because you always look through lenses of what you have been taught, and you refuse to listen to what they are saying..

If you would listen to the with open eyes, you would see..

 

[PeterJens]

So your saying your group has not opened thread after thread

Now here again is a lie.

lol.. Who is the one who loves to come in and tear down others? who is opening thread after thread tearing down other believers?

You should listen to yourself. You always blame others for doing the very thing you yourself do over and over again.

"who is opening thread after thread tearing down other believers?" - a lie

Now he realises this is a lie to say I have done this.

So it becomes "your group"

But this is not the lie I was talking about.

Notice again the way a liar once caught in his lie, tries to cover it up, change it slightly and
continue. So is the nature of the liar.

Now liars are called to be thrown into the lake of fire. It is so important.
It is about respecting the integrity of people and what they stand for.

It is 100% in opposition to the gospel. We are to speak the truth and in everything
keep it simple, so our yes is yes and our no is no.

But remember to HG followers this is legalism so there is no sin in lying. And if there
is, they have already been forgiven. What a joke, except it is not funny, and their
challenge is deadly serious, and they have no regret condemning people to hell, well
as long as it is not anybody in their group, which they are certain is not the case.

 

[PeterJens]

you always look through lenses of what you have been taught, and you refuse to listen to what they are saying..

Listen to Jesus

Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
John 17:17

It is Christs words that sanctify us. So read and dwell on His word,
and let your heart and the Holy Spirit teach you.

Now to those who have listened to deceiving spirits, they will always accuse
the elect of being deceived, but we know we stand on the truth because we
obey Christ and follow His commandments.

As John wrote

We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.
1 John 2:3

Liars will always lie, and once you know their nature there is no point listening
to them anymore, because their hearts are far from God.