Romans 8:1-2, is conditional

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Every letter which Paul wrote to a BELIEVING BODY in CHRIST was because of an issue which arose within that baby believing body.

In the case of the letter to the Romans, it was the believing Romans who were lording it over the unbelieving jewish brother thinking they were lost and beyond salvation...


Paul had to remind them that there is NOW a RIGHTEOUSNESS which is of FAITH...
From faith to faith
From first to last


Telling them that no one will be boasting in themselves...

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
 
Do you believe this?


But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.


13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 
Since the beginning of time, God has given mankind, the ability to come to know Him. And while the Jew has been entrusted with the very words of God, creation speaks of the Creator and the evidence of His majesty is ever before man’s eyes so that even the Gentile is accountable to know Him. And yet man, in his worldly intelligence became wise in his own eyes and traded the simple, beautiful Truth of God’s Sovereignty for substitutions. For with every progression away from God’s presence, his foolish heart became darkened and he became more and more enamored with worldly comforts and pleasures over and above spiritual well-being and “treasures.” For while he knew of God, he did not desire to grow in this knowledge and as a result God gave him over to his futile thinking and his sinful ways which earned for him God’s just and rightful anger.

No one is free from God’s judgment; Jew and Gentile alike. For with the revelation of just how sinful man is, how all have fallen short of God’s glory, man is made aware that it is God’s mercy and compassion which brings him to repentance and the desire to follow God with a contrite heart. For even though the law was initially given to the Jewish people, the Gentile, who puts God ever before his eyes, shows that he is a law for himself. It is his love for God which dictates his righteousness and his conscience upholds the law internally for it convicts him of what is right and it convicts him of what is wrong. As a result, it bears witness of his godliness before God and man.

The Israelites, as God’s chosen, who have received and rely on the written law, will also be held accountable before God apart from the written law. For, while they had the benefits of the law and the fore-knowledge of God, they did not do the things required because they did not embrace the truth of the law upon their heart. Rather, their outward, visible actions in front of God and man showed that their circumcision was simply an outward sign of who they belonged to and their inner hearts were hardened and without love. For it is written in Isaiah 52:5 “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” Therefore, following the works of the written law will not earn for the Jew his righteousness before God.

Since all have sinned and fallen short of God’s Glory, then all are under God’s condemnation; Jew and Gentile alike. And yet, God, in His gracious love for His creation, offers an olive branch in the form of His Son. And Christ came to pay the debt as a "spotless" sin offering to appease God's rightful anger upon sin, which separates us from the Father. And this one time sacrifice for all, Christ redeemed us and brought us back into the Father’s presence. For while we were dead in our sins through ADAM, we are made alive through FAITH in CHRIST...all this was pre-spoken of throughout Old Testament, through the prophets, and through Abraham as the Father of Faith, who opened the eyes of faith upon all through GOD’S promise to Abraham that he, the Father of Faith, would be a father to many nations…grace was extended to ALL through that same FAITH…for God credited righteousness to Abraham apart from the Law and blessed him as the Father of ALL who believe. Abraham showed FAITH before he was circumcised and not after and he received the outward sign of circumcision afterwards as a seal of the righteousness he had exhibited in the sight of God because of his faith. And those who put their Faith in Christ’s redemptive act, will not be put to shame for there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.


Read ALL of ROMANS to understand that NOW there is a righteousness of GOD made known...which is of faith.
From FAITH to FAITH
From FIRST to LAST

GOD has turned the WHOLE WORLD over to disobedience so as to show MERCY to WHOM HE CALLS.
And so as to be just when HE judges and the JUSTIFIER of all whose FAITH is in HIS SON...
 
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A sinner become a saint

No condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, Amen.

But who is in Christ Jesus?

You say you follow Pauls words. But he ran a race, walked in fear and trembling,
was very careful to be blameless, pure, holy, righteous, a true example.

So much and so clearly he said he was the example to follow.

Now Paul talked about following the Spirit, and not carnal desires or the flesh.
The Spirit is love, caring for others, being spiritual, spending time with God and
man.

If you take a point Paul makes and isolate it, it makes sense, but comes at a price
of rejecting the rest of scripture and truth.

A sinner is a different person than Gods Holy people.
The question has always been, what is the real difference?

And this centres on what are we as human beings, and most of our existance?

The sad reality is we are our experience and things we have programmed in to
our lives. Sinners are the result of internal unresolved conflicts which create
inappropriate behaviour, which all societies identify as a problem.

God declares this has all come about because we have rejected Him and live alone.

But you do not become a saint overnight, and all the things you have learnt to do
do not miraculous change at gaining faith. There is no such thing as instant perfection.

And that is the point. If faith alone changed us, the church would be full of perfect
people walking perfect lives. So to follow Jesus is to commit to change and work,
which bears fruit in a different person being created. It is the desire we want to be
different that inspires us to walk after Jesus, so to deny this is to deny why we are
following. Unless ofcourse you are happy as you are, you just want heaven as well, lol.
 
miknik5 said:
Every letter which Paul wrote to a BELIEVING BODY in CHRIST was because of an issue which arose within that baby believing body.

In the case of the letter to the Romans, it was the believing Romans who were lording it over the unbelieving jewish brother thinking they were lost and beyond salvation...


Paul had to remind them that there is NOW a RIGHTEOUSNESS which is of FAITH...
From faith to faith
From first to last


Telling them that no one will be boasting in themselves...

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Click to expand...

But those last verses especially verse 28 are suggesting that the Jew was boasting over the Gentile?
 
valiant said:
But those last verses especially verse 28 are suggesting that the Jew was boasting over the Gentile?
Click to expand...
Yes they were...it was the whole point of Ezekiel 36
GOD took back the WORK of being a LIGHT to all nations because the Jew, who was supposed to be a LIGHT to all nations, who were supposed to NOT treat an "alien" as an "alien" were...

And because of it GOD'S NAME was "misrepresented"...
 
No, in verse 28, Paul is simply laying out that the PROMISE to ABRAHAM came first and that none will be justified by the LAW, but rather by the LAW we were made conscious of sin (which is why Paul also mentions the Gentile who did naturally what was required) while the Jew who boasted in having the Law did not combine the workings of the inner spirit with the Law, they did not extend love and mercy, but rather, held to the Law as some sort of authority, they thought they entered in, but never did, and they did not allow those who desperately looked to them as the one who had the relationship with GOD, to be included in the PROMISES of GOD...
 
Every letter Paul wrote was to a believing body as issues arose within the body...Paul begins with an introduction to his speakers...who are always the believing body...(he never addressed those outside the body) he explains to them that ALL are under sin...for the very words which came to the JEW also are the very words which say that none are righteous, no not one...there is not one who does right and does not sin, from the top of their head to the soles of their feet, open wounds.

Therefore, to the ones who had the Law, the very words already declare that there isn't one who is perfect...therefore no man will be justified by the law...neither the jew or the gentile...

But now there is a RIGHTEOUSNESS which is of faith...
And this is all that we will boast in on that day...

Faith in HIM...

For GOD who is a GOOD FATHER turned the whole world over to disobedience...and we believe that ONE died, therefore all were dead...so that there would be none who can declare themselves before HIM ...but only will declare one thing...their faith in HIS SON...


GOD will be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in HIS SON...
 
The lie of who you are

Do you believe how you react to things defines who you are?
I have some troubling news for you. Depending on your mood, your amount of
sleep, your food you react differently. So who are you? All of these things or none?

Sin in essence is the result of seeing things incorrectly and doing acts or thoughts that
will destroy and cause harm where it is not appropriate. God lays out this in the law, but
is one version for one society and one nation.

In the end it is all a symtom of not knowing God and loving.

Now those who claim religion yet have not embrace love and change, do not know Christ.
Jesus was about reality, being true, knowing what is reality and appropriately responding to
it in fellowship with God.

The biggest load of junk that is being pushed is this is building on the work of Christ, rather
than this is the work of Christ in our lives.

If you loath the person down the road, hate this music, that style of clothes, that type of
personality, you have much to learn about real spirituality, love, forgiveness and transformation.
Jesus wants you to see people as they are, their strengths and weaknesses, the things they use
to define themselves and hide the problems within, and how you can reach them, and bring life
to their souls.

Jesus has always been about real life, life that will never end, love and springs that never run
dry, that bring security and hope that cannot die.

But so many have never tasted this, they want the scraps left over, the hope without delivery,
salvation without change, identification without becoming righteous or holy or pure or justified.
 
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PeterJens said:
The lie of who you are

Do you believe how you react to things defines who you are?
I have some troubling news for you. Depending on your mood, your amount of
sleep, your food you react differently. So who are you? All of these things or none?

Sin in essence is the result of seeing things incorrectly and doing acts or thoughts that
will destroy and cause harm where it is not appropriate. God lays out this in the law, but
is one version for one society and one nation.

In the end it is all a symtom of not knowing God and loving.

Now those who claim religion yet have not embrace love and change, do not know Christ.
Jesus was about reality, being true, knowing what is reality and appropriately responding to
it in fellowship with God.

The biggest load of junk that is being pushed is this is building on the work of Christ, rather
than this is the work of Christ in our lives.

If you loath the person down the road, hate this music, that style of clothes, that type of
personality, you have much to learn about real spirituality, love, forgiveness and transformation.
Jesus wants you to see people as they are, their strengths and weaknesses, the things they use
to define themselves and hide the problems within, and how you can reach them, and bring life
to their souls.

Jesus has always been about real life, life that will never end, love and springs that never run
dry, that bring security and hope that cannot die.

But so many have never tasted this, they want the scapes left over, the hope without delivery,
salvation without change, identification without becoming righteous or holy or pure or justified.
Click to expand...
Flesh, flesh, flesh...I am not interested.
It still will not change the TRUTH.
 
miknik5 said:
Yes they were...it was the whole point of Ezekiel 36
GOD took back the WORK of being a LIGHT to all nations because the Jew, who was supposed to be a LIGHT to all nations, who were supposed to NOT treat an "alien" as an "alien" were...

And because of it GOD'S NAME was "misrepresented"...
Click to expand...

So all the promises to Israel were conditional. Remind you of what His Son came to preach?
 
Here you are sir, thinking you are walking in the KINGDOM and you are concerned in "teaching" the SHEEP who have entered in by way of THE DOOR?

What of those who are outside THE DOOR?

How will you get them in?

By showing them your fleshly love?
 
PeterJens said:
So all the promises to Israel were conditional. Remind you of what His Son came to preach?
Click to expand...
THE PROMISE from the beginning remains THE PROMISE...
And all GOD'S PROMISES are YES AND AMEN for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS>


Again, how will you get those who are outside...IN?
 
Step away from THE DOOR so that those who want to see will see THE DOOR...
Not you boasting in "you"...
 
By the way, HOPE does NOT disappoint...for we do have this deposit guaranteeing our inheritance which is being kept for us in Heaven...for HE alone is OUR HOPE...(it really IS CHRIST in us, OUR HOPE OF GLORY), and those who HOPE in HIM are receiving the goal of their faith, even their salvation...

And...we have THIS HOPE as an anchor for our souls...
BECAUSE HE ENTERED IN FOR US...
 
miknik5 said:
Flesh, flesh, flesh...I am not interested.
It still will not change the TRUTH.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for this.

What you mean as flesh is actually life, life, life. You are not interested in living
but escapism into some religious fanaticism. It will never lead you to what you need,
Jesus wants you to be a real functioning, loving individual who is integrated into society
and life.

The Kingdom of heaven is about real life, not pretending, about real love and giving, not
just faking it because it looks good.

This is the TRUTH and this is where Jesus is.
 
PeterJens said:
Thankyou for this.

What you mean as flesh is actually life, life, life. You are not interested in living
but escapism into some religious fanaticism. It will never lead you to what you need,
Jesus wants you to be a real functioning, loving individual who is integrated into society
and life.

The Kingdom of heaven is about real life, not pretending, about real love and giving, not
just faking it because it looks good.

This is the TRUTH and this is where Jesus is.
Click to expand...
those who love their lives will lose it...those who lose their lives for ME and THE GOSPEL will find it and keep it to ETERNAL LIFE.

Sir, you will have to decide for yourself what is "treasure".
 
miknik5 said:
Here you are sir, thinking you are walking in the KINGDOM and you are concerned in "teaching" the SHEEP who have entered in by way of THE DOOR?

What of those who are outside THE DOOR?

How will you get them in?

By showing them your fleshly love?
Click to expand...

I am not sure you have entered into anything at all.
Escaping family, friends and society has never been what Christ is about.

And firstly our witness is the love Jesus has planted in our souls. Without this
we have nothing and what is the point of following Jesus if we do not become loving
individuals like Christ, or even following Christ if He was not a loving individual.

And you are a classic example of why the gospel needs to be preached properly
in the church or else people come to what they think is the people of Christ, but find
fake, imitations of the real thing.

And my friend have you tested yourself to know you are actually following Jesus and
not your own escapist desires?
 
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