Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

valiant · Sep 23, 2016

In other words his doctrine is based, not on what Scripture teaches, but what he thinks Jesus should have taught,

he also wishes Jesus had not taught this;

Jesus said, 'That all may honour the Son AS they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son (as they honour the Father), does not honour the Father Who sent Him.' John 5.23

“For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself” John 5.26

Jesus answered them, “MY Father is working still and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God John 5.17-18

“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” John 8.58

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father. John 14.9

“And this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent – and now, Father, glorify Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17.5)

John said, 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was face to face with God, and What God was the Word was, – and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1.1, 14).

The risen Jesus said, “Baptising them in the (one) Name (YHWH) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28.19

And for us there is ONE GOD, the Father, from Whom are all things and for Whom we exist, and ONE LORD through Whom are all things and through Whom we exist 1 Corinthians 8.6 (in contrast with the many gods and lords)

He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstBORN before the whole of creation Colossians 1.15

In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form Colossians 2.9

Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2.13

When the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared, – which He poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Saviour Titus 3.4, 6

In the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ – of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Peter 1.1 ,11 (exactly parallel in the Greek).

Who being the outshining of His glory and the exact representation of His substance Heb 1.3

He is the SON in contrast to all angels Heb 1.4 following.

Thomas called Him, “my LORD and my God”. John 20.28

Enough said.....

wattie · Sep 23, 2016

bluto said:

Yeah I get what you mean. 'Person' doesn't have to mean 'seperate being'. Guess I prefer a different term.. but I meaning the same thing.

I will always contend that the trinity in the one triune being God. Not three seperate entities that are somehow 'God' in parenthesis.

And I am repeating myself.. but I believe the Father is God.. Jesus is God.. the Holy Spirit is God. They are co-equal and co-eternal as the Godhead.

The bible definitely defines the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit distinctly.. but I don't believe there is any spiritual seperation between them.

jaybird88 · Sep 23, 2016

VCO said:

so im guessing you couldn't find this anywhere in the bible? so now you know why there is a dispute on the subject.

i have no idea what a unitarian is other than a different view on the trinity. i walked away from these denomination labels long ago, they are nothing but a handicap on your spiritual development. how many times do Jesus and the 12 teach on denominations, how many times does the bible even mention their denomination?
i believe what the bible teaches above what man teaches. is there a trinity of 3 gods in one Most High, i have no idea and i dont see Jesus teaching it. is the trinity a false teaching, i have no idea and dont tell anyone it is. if believing in the trinity helps you be a better Christian, dont change a thing. my biggest issue with this is when Christians use it as a tool to decide who is a Christian, who gets saved, your wrong if you dont accept it, and all the rest.
one of the biggest issues Jesus had with the pharisees is that they put their traditions (doctrines) equal to the Fathers commandments. do we see this same thing happening today????

jaybird88 · Sep 23, 2016

prove-all said:

Heavenly Witnesses?

31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me;
and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given
me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

i think many are missing the implications here. but i see it.

fredoheaven · Sep 23, 2016

Quasar92 said:

The Biblical documentation of the pre-incarnate Jesus origin and when He became the Son of God/God the Son:

Beginning in Proverbs 8, pertaining to the personification of God's Wisdom, reference is made to specifically to verses 22 through 36, that clearly identify the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus Christ as the WHO, of the Wisdom of God. [From the NIV].

"The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deed of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning,

before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24]
when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. [Vs 24-26]

I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28]

when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30]

rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33]

Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-36]

That Jesus is the Wisdom [Power and knowledge] of God is made abundantly clear in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3

Col.1:15 "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."

Gen.1:1: "In the beginning God created the heaven and earth," Tanakh

Heb.1:1: "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe."

Gen.1:26 "Then God said, “Let us [The pre-incarnate Jesus] make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” [Parenthetics mine}

Jesus did not become the Son of God/God the Son until recorded in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35 as the Scriptures clearly document in the following OT passages.

God makes it clear in the OT, He is eternal, that there is no other God but He Himself. "....Before me no God was formed, nor will there be one after me." Isa.43:10. And in Isa.44:6, "....I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." See also Isa.45:5: "I am the Lord and there is no other," and in Ex.3:14: "I AM WHO I AM."

Quasar92

Now I have to raised doubts of your 35 years of developing your belief system for Jesus did not " became" Son of God or God the Son until Mt.1:20 and Luke 1:35. Of course this is not unitarianism but socinianism being against the "eternal generation" of the Son, the Word. God manifested in the flesh. Well your documentation was already dealt with previous posts. No need to rehash...

VCO · Sep 23, 2016

wattie said:

I too find it strange that so many cannot that three personages can be ONE DIVINE BEING.

Three distinct personages.

All Three having a distinct title.

All Three having a distinct function.

And YET, they are COEQUALLY the ONE and ONLY DIVINE BEING that exists.

What made that very understandable to me very soon after I was Born Again, was the fact that we are made in
the image of GOD. One thing I knew for sure is that was not talking about us becoming little gods like the New Age teaches. Then one day when I was reading the following verse, it all clicked:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (ESV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is the understanding, we were created in the image of GOD in that we have:

Three distinct parts.

All Three having a distinct title.

All Three having a distinct function.

And YET, we are ONLY ONE Human Being.

Genesis 1:26-27 (ASV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

rozz · Sep 23, 2016

Quasar92 said:

I only have the book of Dr. HL Wilmington, the "Wilmington Guide to the Bible" and teaches Trinity. Did Dr. Wilmington recant his position on the Biblical stance of the trinity? or that the Falwells' no longer believe in the Godhead? Need to google TRBC...

"What became the basis for “Willmington’s Guide to the Bible” was taken from those sheets.

He has written 20 books beginning in 1974 with “The King is Coming” and continuing through this year. His most recent book is “What the Bible says About the Trinity.” The back of this book describes it as being “one in a series of ‘basic Biblical beliefs’ which have been held by both Liberty University and Thomas Road Baptist Church (TRBC) from their very beginning.”
Eighty years dedicated to God –[/QUOTE]

In addition to Dr.Wilmington being my mentor from Liberty University, I have held memberships in the Presbyterian, the Brethren, the Methodist, the Lutheran and the Baptist Churches, depending om where I was living at the time, all of whom teach the Trinity. Which I did as well for 45 years, until I tired of trying to explain it to others from the Bible, since it did not teach God to be triune, not did Jesus or His disciple ever teach such a thing. I have both volumes of Dr. Wilmington's Guide to the Bile, plus hundreds of both audio and video tapes he provided me during my studies under him. Since you claim to have all the answers, let me see you prove the Trinity from the Bible! Review my post #341, which took years of study and research to develop, together with the following:

What about the assertions trinitarians use as a mainstay of their belief, of 1 Jn.5:7 and Mt.28:19? The fact of the matter is, they cannot be blamed for believing what has been either an insertion, or an alteration of the original text by the author, yet appears in most of the English translations of our Bibles.

However, we should all know the most obvious factor of all; that the term father is only a title. The very same one every man gets when he has produced children of his own. Therefore, reference to "...baptize all nations in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," trinitarians use to make two persons of their trio, out of God, who is the Holy Spirit and Father, one and the same person, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35, together with the Son, is false. Our Godhead is only two persons, God, who is the Holy Spirit and Father of Jesus Christ, the Son, according to the Scriptures, not three!

The Scriptural facts to support God to be the Holy Spirit are: Jn.1:18; 4:24; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15; Lev.11:44-45; 1

Pet.1:15-16 and 1 Jn.4:12, as Spirit.

That He is also Holy are in: Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Ps.99:3; Ps.99:5 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.

Let's have a brief look at the history behind these two verses and learn the truth about them. The following is through the courtesy of SDA Global.

But various authorities mention a work entitled Discrepancies in the Gospels, and another work entitled The Concluding Sections of the Gospels.

According to Conybeare:

Eusebius cites this text (Matt. 28:19) again and again in works written between 300 and 336, namely in his long commentaries on the Psalms, on Isaiah, his Demonstratio Evangelica, his Theophany. .. in his famous history of the Church, and in his panegyric of the emperor Constantine. I have, after a moderate search in these works of Eusebius, found eighteen citations of Matthew 28:19, and always in the following form:'Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in My name, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you. '

Ploughman's research uncovered all of these quotations except for one, which is in a catena published by Mai in a German magazine, the Zeitschrift fur die neutestamentliche Wissenschaft, edited by Dr. Erwin Preuschen in Darmstadt in 1901. Eusebius was not content merely to cite the verse in this form, but he more than once commented on it in such a way as to show how much he confirmed the wording "in my name". Thus, in his Demonstratio Evangelica he wrote the following:

For he did not enjoin them "to make disciples of all the nations" simply and without qualification, but with the essential addition "in his name". For so great was the virtue attaching to his appellation that the Apostle says, "God bestowed on him the name above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven and on earth and under the earth. " It was right therefore that he should emphasize the virtue of the power residing in his name but hidden from the many, and therefore say to his Apostles, "Go ye, and make disciples of all the nations in my name.' (col. 240, p. 136)

Conybeare proceeded, in Hibbert Journal, 1902:

It is evident that this was the text found by Eusebius in the very ancient codices collected fifty to a hundred and fifty years before his birth by his great predecessors. Of any other form of text he had never heard and knew nothing until he had visited Constantinople and attended the Council of Nice. Then in two controversial works written in his extreme old age, and entitled, the one 'Against Marcellus of Ancyra,' and the other 'About the Theology of the Church,' he used the common reading. One other writing of his also contains it, namely a letter written after the Council of Nice was over, to his seer of Caesurae.

In his Textual Criticism of the New Testament Conybeare wrote:

It is clear therefore, that of the manuscripts which Eusebius inherited from his predecessor, Pamphilus, at Caesurae in Palestine, some at least preserved the original reading, in which there was no mention either of baptism or of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. It has been conjectured by Dr. David-son, Dr. Martineau, by the Dean of Westminster, and by Prof. Harnack (to mention but a few names of the many) that here the received text could not contain the very words of Jesus - this long before anyone except Dr. Burgon, who kept the discovery to himself, had noticed the Eusebian form of the reading.

Naturally an objection was raised by Dr. Chase, Bishop of Ely, who argued that Eusebius indeed found the traditional text in his manuscripts, but substituted the briefer wording in his works for fear of vulgarizing the "sacred" Trinitarian wording. Interestingly, a modern Bishop revived the very argument used 150 years earlier, in support of the forged text of 1 John 5:7-8:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood:and these three agree in one.
According to Porson (in a preface to his Letters):

Bengel. .. allowed that the words (The Three Witnesses) were in no genuine manuscripts. .. Surely then, the verse is spurious! No! This learned man finds a way of escape. 'The passage was of so sublime and mysterious a nature that the secret discipline of the Church withdrew it from the public books, till it was gradually lost. ' Under what a lack of evidence must a critic labor who resorts to such an argument!?

Conybeare continued, refuting the argument of the Bishop of Ely:

It is sufficient answer to point out that Eusebius' argument, when he cites the text, involves the text 'in my name. ' For, he asks, 'in whose name?' and answers that it was the name spoken of by Paul in his Epistle to the Philippians 2:10.

Finally, the Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics states:

The facts are, in summary, that Eusebius quotes Matthew 28:19 twenty-one times, either omitting everything between 'nations' and 'teaching,' or in the form 'make disciples of all the nations in my name,' the latter form being the more frequent.

Having considered the evidence of Eusebius, let us also consider some other early writers.

Quasa92[/QUOTE]

Quasar92(Non-trinitarian), Liberty Home Bible Institute told me you do not have a Masters degree from them as you have claimed; they have never issued a Masters Degree to anyone.

VCO · Sep 23, 2016

jaybird88 said:

Unitarians DO NOT BELIEVE in the TRINITY. They are just one of the many psuedo Christian cults that Deny the DEITY of Jesus Christ, teaching He is only a man; in fact they think the Holy Spirit is an IT, and that only the Father is GOD. I posted several verses that clearly point to the DEITY of Jesus Christ. You just close your eyes and run the other way.

I ask you YET AGAIN, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS BOTH MAN AND GOD INCARNATE?

YES OR NO?

1 John 2:23 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Here is an example of non-denominational Statement of FAITH, from the MASTER's SEMINARY, near L.A. that I agree with.
Doctrinal Statement - The Master's Seminary
It has ample reference verses pertaining to the Holy Trinity.

TELL US in plain language whether of not you Believe in the DEITY of JESUS CHRIST.

prove-all · Sep 23, 2016

The Greek parakletos (comforter) is masculine in gender, so translators used the personal
pronouns he and him for the Greek masculine pronouns. In many languages, a word’s gender
has nothing to do with whether the thing itself is literally male or female. For example,
the Spanish word mesa (table) is feminine. Gender in language is a mere grammatical tool.

In Greek, as in English, the word spirit is neuter—neither masculine nor feminine in gender.
Pneuma is the Greek word meaning “spirit.” It is always grammatically neuter, properly
represented by the English pronoun “it” (John 1:32; Romans 8:16).

prove-all · Sep 23, 2016

at that prehistoric time of the first verse of John 1, the Word was not (yet) the Son of God.
He divested himself of His glory as a spirit divinity to be begotten as a human person.

He was made God’s Son, through being begotten or sired by God and born of the virgin Mary.
God and the Word, became now the Father and Son

And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness,
by the resurrection from the dead:

VCO · Sep 23, 2016

jaybird88 said:

Since I was born again the last week of 1977, I have worshiped in a great number of Churches {we moved a lot}, most of them have been Non-denominational Bible teaching Churches affiliated with no denomination. I am not looking for what Church you go to, just whether or not you believe JESUS IS and WAS DEITY prior to HIS birth.

PLEASE ANSWER.

jaybird88 · Sep 23, 2016

VCO said:

the bible teaches all those points you mentioned. we just got finished discussing one a few pages back

1 Peter 1:11
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

this confirms one of those beliefs. so they follow what scripture teaches, and this makes them a pseudo Christian cult?? interesting.
and lets go back to a point i made earlier.

your response:

they dont accept a man made doctrine, therefore they are not real Christians. thank you for making my point

pharisees did this same thing in the days Jesus taught, they took their man made laws and made them laws of our Lord. Jesus warned against such things.

i will add to my last response being as you didnt seem to get it.
i believe what the bible teaches above what man teaches. is there a trinity of 3 gods in one Most High, i have no idea and i dont see Jesus teaching it. is the trinity a false teaching, i have no idea and dont tell anyone it is. if believing in the trinity helps you be a better Christian,you wrote:
Jesus is part of the ONE and only GOD there is, the HOLY TRINITY,
if we change this to:
Jesus is part of the ONE and only GOD
this i believe. beyond this i do not know, claim to know and would never try to teach anyone else.

when you read this passage do you black out "Son" and replace it with "trinity"?

i am very happy for them. here is a statement from Exodus teaching dont follow the crowd.
Exodus 23:2
"Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd
if Jesus told me the sky was blue, then you brought me a million of these doctrine statements saying different, im not going to walk from Jesus.
with due respect i think you worry to much what other people think, what domination you are, what the majority believe and the like. why are these things so important?

Quasar92 · Sep 23, 2016

bluto said:

Come on quasar, vco did show where Jesus said He would raise Himself. Read the verses here:

"John 2:19 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
John 2:21 (ESV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But he was speaking about the temple of his body.

You have the Apostle John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit giving his commentary on what Jesus meant at John 2:21. Not only that but at the trial of Jesus the high priest Caiaphas brought in false witnesses who said, "and said, "This man/Jesus stated, "I am able to destroy the timeple of God and to rebuild it in three days." (Matthew 26:61).

Obviously the witnesses mis-understood what Jesus had said but we have the Apostle John clarifying what Jesus was talking about, that is the temple of His body. So now you have concrete proof that Jesus raised Himself from the dead and at Romans 8:11 the following: "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."

So far we have Jesus Christ rasing Himself, the Holy Spirit raising Him and how about God the Father? Acts 2:24, "And God raised Him up again putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power." Then Acts 2:32,33, "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. vs33, Therefore having b een exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."

Notice quasar, that God the Father (who you say is the person of the Holy Spirit) has poured out from the Father the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:1-4. Now what excuse are you going to come up with quasar?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

You can go on believing Jesus meant He would resurrect Himself from the dead, bluto. That is NOT what He meant! You have the Scriptural proof to support the fact that the Father raised Him from the dead in my last post!

Quasar92

bluto · Sep 24, 2016

Quasar92 said:

My dear quasar, this is not a matter of what I can go on believing but what the Bible states and teaches. My methodology in determing the truth of the Bible is entirely orthodox--It's called exercising valid reasoning to determine the truth REPRESENTED IN THE EVIDENCE.

I gave you the evidence from the Apostle John (John 2:21) and your sitting there telling me, "That is NOT what He/Jesus meant!" So, suppose you tell us all here what did Jesus mean? And btw, if John and Jesus do not know what they meant then you "CAN't" know? Lastly, I already gave you the evidence that not only did God the Father raise Jesus Christ from the dead and the Holy Spirit raising Jesus from the dead, Jesus raised Himself from the dead.

The reason you keep "kicking against the pricks" is because of your denial that there are three distinct persons within the Godhead who are all identified as the one God in the Bible. Afterall, "Godhead" simply means "deity."

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

VCO · Sep 24, 2016

NOW, the question is DO YOU BELIEVE THE SON OF GOD IS PART OF THAT ONE AND ONLY GOD THAT EXISTS?
YES OR NO?

Quasar92 said:

How many here want Quasar92 to answer my question with a simple YES or NO?

My answer to the same question is ABSOLUTELY YES!

Quasar92 · Sep 24, 2016

bluto said:

You gave me Scriptures of Jesus remarks you interpret by what you believe. His remarks in no way constitute your belief He is the one who resurrected Himself from the dead. I am the one who gave you proof to the contrary. This ends my discussion with you on this issue!

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Sep 24, 2016

VCO said:

When you read what has been posted on any thread previously, it is more often than not, many questions asked later, are unnecessary. This was in my post #471 6 days ago.

>>>6. When the Holy Spirit of God overpowered the virgin Mary, she conceived in what became the incarnate Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, several things happened:

A. God, who is the Holy Spirit became the Father of Jesus, as documented in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35.

B. The term "Father" is the very same title all men receive after they have produced children of their own, as was the case when God, who is the Holy Spirit produced His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Therefore, God who is the Holy Spirit and the Father are one and the same person. Fulfilling the prophecy of God in Ps.2:7, repeated after being fulfilled in Heb.1:5.

C. Jesus immediately received the Holy Spirit and His deity together with the power to give/baptize with the Holy Spirit, confirming Mt.3:11; Mk.1:8; Lk.3:16; Jn.1:33 and Acts 2:1-3. Jesus said, whoever believes in Him is born again, through the Holy Spirit He gives/baptizes with, to those who do, and promises eternal life in: Jn.3:16, Mt.3:11, Mk.1:8, Lk.3:16, Jn.1:33 and Acts 2:1-3. See also Jn.10:27-29, 20:21-22, 1 Jn.3:24 and 1 Jn.4:13.<<<

bluto · Sep 24, 2016

Quasar92 said:

Wow quasar, are you ever blind? Again, I did "NOT" interprete the remarks of Jesus Christ at John 2:19. The Apostle John interpreted Jesus' remarks at John 2:21, not me. And then you have the nerve to tell me that Jesus did not resurrect Himself? What part of His words at John 2:19 don't you understand? "Destroy this temple and in three days I WILL RAISE IT UP."

Jesus Christ was clearly foretelling His own resurrection. "Jesus is literally asserting that in the space of three days He will raise His own body. No man could make this claim. Jesus Christ is by nature and action God! And btw, this is not an isolated assertion, for He also said He had authority to lay down His life and take it again. Lastly, you still did not address your own question of "what Jesus Christ meant quasar? Why don't you show me your exegesis of the passage in a way that demonstrates how you can deny the obvious of what it says? No wonder you don't want to continue this discussion with me, it's because your "stuck" and you know it.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Btw,

VCO · Sep 24, 2016

Quasar92 said:

John 14:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Why do you find it impossible to answer a straight forward question about the Deity of Jesus Christ?

Do you believe that the spirit in JESUS is and was the only Deity that exists, prior to HIS BIRTH?

YES or NO?

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

Luke 2:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

VCO · Sep 24, 2016

bluto said:

bluto, here is a picture of a very common bush that grows in road ditches in Israel, which occasionally shepherds would use as cattle prods. I agree he certainly insists on "kicking against the pricks", no matter how many verses we show him.

My guess is those branches are what Jesus was talking about, I wonder if quasar wears sandals, LOL.

Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

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