Building upon a lie

[PeterJens]

You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’

I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 3:7-10

Jesus message is simple. Walk in righteousness and produce good fruit.

The modern day church equivalent of the privilege argument is we have Jesus instead
of Abraham. No fruit of repentance no salvation.

 

[PeterJens]

If you repeat a lie enough times, even when it is opposed you begin to believe it is the truth.

Sin is simple. It destroys relationships, betrays trust, causes harm and leads to the destruction
of complex situations that rely on the relationship working.

It is the one thing as humans we are not good at recognising, and God is fantastic at helping us.
We will always find it difficult to recognise when we are causing the problem.

Until we have a pure heart, so many emotions cloud our guilt and harm we are doing.
It is why to walk with God, you need to aim to purify your heart, to take captive your
thoughts, to put to death things that are empty and lost.

But listening to some, they claim we are innocent and just need to submit to God, and it
will just happen. This has never been true and is pure deception about what it means
to walk in Jesus's ways.

 

[bornofgod]

You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’

I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 3:7-10

Jesus message is simple. Walk in righteousness and produce good fruit.

The modern day church equivalent of the privilege argument is we have Jesus instead
of Abraham. No fruit of repentance no salvation.

Repentance isn't meant for the flesh of man. It's meant to teach the spirit of man the distractions that has caused him to be blind from the Tree of Life.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Because of Jesus that is not true of me or the others here who have Jesus. And you if you have Jesus ISIT. Because of Jesus we are no longer reprobates.

You claim to willfully sin every day, as do other "hyper grace" followers, and then in the next breath you say you have Jesus, and are "in Christ." You people have been lied to by false teachers and you do not see or understand the contradiction of your position, which is totally opposed to the words of God and what a true born again conversion looks like in Christ.

Jesus said in John 15:1-10 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]
7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.[SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”

Ok, some claim all Christians are sinners, and that they keep on sinning even though they have been saved. And even despite that disobedience and reoccurring sin they proclaim you still abide in Christ. This my friends is false, because you cannot remain in sin and in Christ at the same time.

Notice Jesus said in order to bear fruit one must abide in Him, that also means believing in and abiding in His words. And here is what it means to abide in Him…
1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

The seed mentioned there is Christ, but again to be in Christ is to 1 John 3:6 “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”
So the simple truth is in order to bear fruit we must abide in Christ, and to abide in Christ one must stop sinning.

Now if one is sinning are they truly in Christ? Not according to the Lords words above. Also we are given what happens if one in Him does not bear fruit in Jesus, as said in John 15:2 [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:” So anyone in him that does not bear fruit he takes away. And not only that we are told in verse 6 [SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Also we cannot bear fruit on our own except we abide in Him John 15:4 “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.” And again, to abide in Christ means you cannot abide in sin.

And if you remain in sin, then you truly don’t abide in Christ do you? And as Jesus said, those who do not abide in Him are cast forth as a branch, and then gathered and cast into the fire and burned.

Christ is not a vine of sin (minister of sin) Galatians 2:17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid." 1 John 3:5 "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Anyone who says you can abide in sin and also remain in Christ at the same time is a liar and a deceiver.
​

 

[Grace777x70]

If people understood the difference between "sin" and "sinning" then we would understand spiritual realities in Christ. Post #202 in this thread illustrates this truth.

It is very easy to see the "spirit" that is behind posts. Click on ladylynn's name and view her posts how she lifts up Christ and encourages others to grow in the grace and love of Christ.

Click on the accuser of the brethren's name and view the posts made and we will see the condemnation, hatred, accursedness, malice and slander that is being spread. It's easy to see which one is exhibiting true godly behavior and lifts up the beauty of our Lord Jesus Christ. Everyone - look for yourselves. It's all there to see.

Don't be fooled by those that think they have "sinless perfection in the flesh" - it's a lie of the enemy and a deception.

When someone never talks about Jesus and His love and grace but in all posts there is nothing but condemnation, demonic, death, sin and accursedness and evil, accusing the brethren and hatred - there is something wrong.

The gospel of the grace of Christ is never spoken of - the Lord Jesus and His beauty is never spoken about. All this speaks volumes to me.

Jesus in His own words had this to say about "this spirit".

Luke 9:54-56 (NASB)
[SUP]54 [/SUP] When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"

[SUP]55 [/SUP] But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;

[SUP]56 [/SUP] for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."

 

[PeterJens]

For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
1 Cor 2:2

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
1 cor 13:4-13

But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 cor 15:57

 

[PeterJens]

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16

What glory we have is we follow Jesus and walk in His ways empowered by love,
the Holy Spirit and His word.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Jude 1:23
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.=sin

 

[Grace777x70]

Jude 1:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;

[SUP]13 [/SUP] wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.

Jude 1:16-21 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]18 [/SUP] that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."

[SUP]19[/SUP]These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

[SUP]21 [/SUP] keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70
if you are in fact in Christ - you would be in His presence despite your wilful sinning.

This truth applies to all of us.

What does the words of God call those who cannot cease from sin, and even boast in wilful sinning?

2 Peter 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

 

[FreeNChrist]

"Now unto HIM who is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." Jude 1:24-25

 

[FreeNChrist]

What does the words of God call those who cannot cease from sin, and even boast in wilful sinning?

2 Peter 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Have you ceased from all sin??

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Boasting in wilful sinning and proclaiming yourself still saved and "in Christ" is no different than the spirit that is behind the gay pride movement, it's all a boast of wilful rebellion against God's words.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Boasting in wilful sinning and proclaiming yourself still saved and "in Christ" is no different than the spirit that is behind the gay pride movement, it's all a boast of wilful rebellion against God's words.

Boasting or confessing? You think God doesn't see into your heart??

 

[Grace777x70]

The true gospel message is very clear however some "mis-hear" what is being said and thus can malign it for whatever reasons. We should never water down the gospel because of this. There is Romans 6:1-11 that answers those that try to use "grace" and the forgiveness of sins as an excuse for their lifestyle.

I don't believe the gospel message needs to change but that we need to teach what happened to them when they received Christ ( Romans 6:1-11 ) so that they can grow up in Him. Watering down the true gospel does the opposite of it's message.

Abut alas there will be those that will use the gospel to try to excuse their lifestyle and they will be corrected by our loving Father and Lord. To these I agree that Romans 6:1-11 needs to be taught to these types of mindsets.

I have written this a few times - there are those that speak against this so-called Christian homosexual lifestyle where these people think it's ok to live however they want because of "grace". They are not living under the benefits of grace at all.

The Christian that lives the lifestyle of out-bursts of anger, malice, slander ( all works of the flesh ) others in the body of Christ - can also think it's ok to live like this as well as the other group mentioned. Both groups are doing the exact same thing in their Christian walk with the Lord.

One thinks they are superior and "godlier" then the other - can we guess which group does that? The Pharisee mindset that "does no sin in the flesh" in their own minds.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth
What does the words of God call those who cannot cease from sin, and even boast in wilful sinning?

2 Peter 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Have you ceased from all sin??

Of course he hasn't. He can't admit it because in his religion he is not born of God if someone sins - but he has never been honest and admit the truth. Most sin done is willful even if we try to deny the truth.

This is the kind of spiritual nonsense we get when we don't understand what "sin in the flesh is" which Romans 6-7 talks about.

Slander and malice is willful no matter how we try to mask it. You are wasting your time with this mindset. This "sinless perfection in the flesh" is a deception and a hidden reef of destruction and will cause a ship-wrecked faith.

Without understanding the difference between "sin which is in our flesh" ( which Christ has separated us from in our inner man - Col. 2:11 ) and "sinning" - this causes all kinds of destructable man-made doctrines to come about such as this "sinless perfection in the flesh".

 

[Grace777x70]

Let's take this religion for a test run.

We know that breaking the speeding laws is against the will of God so it is really sinning. If ISIT speeds and then crashes his car and dies - he will go straight to hell. He is speeding "willfully". In his religion he is not born of God because he has sinned and so he will go to hell.

There are dozens of realities like this as what ever is not of faith is a sin. His religion does not hold up to the reality of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

This applies to so many things in this life that are the will of God - like rejoicing, praying without ceasing, in everything giving thanks.

We believe the scriptures - just not his "application" of those scriptures and there is no such thing as "sinless perfection in the flesh".

Why would we need the blood of Jesus that continually cleanse us if we were sinless in our flesh? 1 John 1:7

 

[PeterJens]

Let's take this religion for a test run.

We know that breaking the speeding laws is against the will of God so it is really sinning. If ISIT speeds and then crashes his care and dies. He is speeding "willfully". In his religion he is not born of God because he has sinned and so he will go to hell.

There are dozens of realities like this as what ever is not of faith is a sin. His religion does not hold up to the reality of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

" what ever is not of faith is a sin"

I am always amazed at why people quote this verse because it is so miss-leading.
Now for those who believe we can never walk righteously, it proves their point.
Is being hungry of faith. No. So sin. Homework, sin, friendship, sin, marriage, sin,
driving a car, sin, breathing, sin, sleeping, sin, looking at things, sin, reading, sin.

In fact anything not included in faith or defined within faith is sin.

Now to those who actually believe sin is a dangerous defiling thing, then sin can be
avoided and dealt with and because of this is very important, needs defining and understanding.

But this is why some believers are so lax in their use of language and condemnation, because
for them it helps their cause, but is against the gospel and the intention of God.

God brought the law so we might know what is sin in a concrete sense and what is not.
The law is there for a good reason, because as this point demonstrates people easily fall into
everything is sin, or nothing is sin, because both positions avoid any responsibility on the
individual to feel guilt, to behave in a particular way or to resolve any problems.

It is why it is deception and a lie, and denies Christ died so that we might follow Him in
righteousness, so it is critical for us to oppose these lies, wrapped up in christian jargon,
but delivered with will the same verses and hopes we hold dear.

 

[Ruth]

I have never seen a statue face palm before!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I have written this a few times - there are those that speak against this so-called Christian homosexual lifestyle where these people think it's ok to live however they want because of "grace". They are not living under the benefits of grace at all.

And those who willfully sin every day are also not "under grace" because the words of God say under grace sin shall not have dominion over you. So at every turn your own confession of willfully sinning proves you are not truly "in Christ" or "under grace".