JP teaches "self righteousness" and instant "perfectionism"
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L
I would have to say it is wrong to say we "follow and trust" anyone but Jesus Christ. Just because I have been blessed by the preaching and teaching of certain teachers or preachers of the Bible over the years, it doesn't mean I'm a follower of them. It simply means I agree with a lot of what they preach and teach. If any of them taught people to follow them and not Christ, I'd be sure not to be listening to them anymore.
A good pastor or teacher or preacher will ALWAYS point their brothers and sisters to Christ. They will encourage other believers to develop a close relationship with Christ personally. So they can stand on their own individual faith.
Depending on other people more than Christ is wrong. Following close to the Good Shepherd is the answer and will be exactly what a man or woman of God will be encouraging others to be doing all the time.
Some pastors or teachers or preachers are preaching more in keeping with the things I've been learning about Jesus and His love for me and others in the body of Christ. To be lifted up in the faith is always a good thing. Hearing the Bible preached and taught is always a good thing. Who we decide to listen to is a personal choice based on our own reasons.
Some Christians like to be preached at LOUDLY., It might go along with their personality or something. Myself., I could never stand being yelled at so those kind of preachers are not for me and are hard to hear and actually hurt my ears.
In my life time of listening to many different preachers., even if they were good solid Bible preachers I have found I don't like being yelled at and have even decided to not listen to them much. So many things go into who we like to hear preach the Bible or not.
Appreciating the way someone teaches is not a bad thing. And it doesn't make me a "follower" of one person. It just means I appreciate many things about their gift of preaching. I also think personality comes into who we prefer listening to as well.
1 Corinthians 5:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
Jude 3-4
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
Jude 3-4
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
A railer is someone who slanders other believers in the body of Christ which is why we implement Romans 16:17 when we do not see any repentance in them so that we will not be defiled by them.
Romans 16:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
If we continue to interact with these types - we end up with this happening. ( we can post scriptures that point out the beauty and grace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ - just don't get into exchanges with them )
1 Corinthians 15:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."
Then if left to fester - we could end up in bitterness and full of malice-filled hatred and we end up trying to call it "defending the faith"...
Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
Brothers and sisters - guard your heart with all diligence from these types that are amongst us. They are "hidden reefs" in our love feasts as Jude 1:12 talks about.
A railer is someone who slanders other believers in the body of Christ which is why we implement Romans 16:17 when we do not see any repentance in them so that we will not be defiled by them.
Romans 16:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
If we continue to interact with these types - we end up with this happening. ( we can post scriptures that point out the beauty and grace and love of our Lord Jesus Christ - just don't get into exchanges with them )
1 Corinthians 15:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."
Then if left to fester - we could end up in bitterness and full of malice-filled hatred and we end up trying to call it "defending the faith"...
Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
Brothers and sisters - guard your heart with all diligence from these types that are amongst us. They are "hidden reefs" in our love feasts as Jude 1:12 talks about.
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I understand and agree with what you're saying here, but when one shares or endorses a teacher here then it kind of does mean you follow them. I don't mean that you hold him above Jesus necessarily or the complete "extreme" that side either, but it kind of does mean you follow his teachings, you agree with what he says. If you didn't then why in the world would anyone endorse, share, or defend any teacher.
See one side is saying a teacher is off, the other side is defending a mans teachings, they are trying to use the bible to do it, but are still defending a man and calling Christians the "enemy", when Jesus said it was the world that would attack us, well the world and false teachers. Just be careful and don't fault others for doing so, they may have a point.
See one side is saying a teacher is off, the other side is defending a mans teachings, they are trying to use the bible to do it, but are still defending a man and calling Christians the "enemy", when Jesus said it was the world that would attack us, well the world and false teachers. Just be careful and don't fault others for doing so, they may have a point.
The other side to know is that these so-called Christians are really just slanders of others in the body of Christ and they hide their sinning under the disguise of "defending the faith" but in reality we could just be "defending our religious teachings".
The enemy of the Lord Jesus Christ is religion and satan just loves religion.
Just because someone believes something slightly different than someone else - they become heretics. This is ungodly behavior no matter how we try to justify it.There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.
There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham. Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin....Andrew Wommack...etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies".
There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.
Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics".
Their motto is: "If people don't believe some scriptures in the way that "they" do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.."
This is not what we were taught in "my" church or in our whole church tradition. So, now everyone else is a heretic to them.
It's the nature of the beast. Martin Luther was a heretic to the catholic church at the time because for 1100 years prior to Luther they had always "believed" the same way.
Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a false teacher and a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.
The enemy of the Lord Jesus Christ is religion and satan just loves religion.
Just because someone believes something slightly different than someone else - they become heretics. This is ungodly behavior no matter how we try to justify it.There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.
There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham. Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin....Andrew Wommack...etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies".
There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.
Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics".
Their motto is: "If people don't believe some scriptures in the way that "they" do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.."
This is not what we were taught in "my" church or in our whole church tradition. So, now everyone else is a heretic to them.
It's the nature of the beast. Martin Luther was a heretic to the catholic church at the time because for 1100 years prior to Luther they had always "believed" the same way.
Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a false teacher and a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.
L
I didn't say I didn't agree with what Pastor Prince is preaching. I do. I like his teaching and he says it so much better than I can so I like to post his devotionals on CC for the benefit of others. There are only a few small issues I may not agree with him on but they are very small I don't even remember what they were.
Basically I agree with much of what he preaches and have been blessed by hearing the truth preached each day. I don't understand why you don't like him but that's your business. I do know many people mis understand my words until they have time to listen and then we get a long just fine. And so it is with JP. He does challenge old religious teachings that are based on traditions of men and have actually nothing to do with the Bible. The fact that I came from an old Catholic family of religious traditions that I once thought were in the Bible., I now make it my business to know what is in the Bible and what is not so I am not ever walking according to the traditions of man made religion. That stuff puts rules and regulations on people that God never meant.
But I have to sign off now. Maybe we can talk on it later. night!
I would never deny that could be the case, Lord knows men have been know to do crazier. I understand what you're saying and maybe even why a little. Honestly man you come across like a very genuine, loving, accepting, and caring person that doesn't want to step on any toes, or even let those toes be stepped on in front of you. I understand you when you are talking about what happens when one is saved by the on true and living God and are changed into a new man that WANTS to serve Him in gratitude the rest of our life. Honestly I am so tried of this "debate" and know it will go on until Jesus returns, but I think from here on out I am going to really try to get to know people on here, especially the people I do have disagreements with.
That aside I appreciate the kind words earlier on the rep thing. Thanks.
That aside I appreciate the kind words earlier on the rep thing. Thanks.
I agree with you Jim.
I also want to say that I don't agree with everything any teacher says - no matter who they are. I pray that I won't agree with everything I believe today in 2 years as I learn more about the grace and love of our Lord for us. I look forward to repenting as I get to know our Lord more and see His beauty and love for us.
To me there is no greater revelation to know the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father - so let's endeavor to lift up Christ so that we can grow up in a body of Christ together.
We need each other. None of us knows it all and Paul says if we think we know things - than we don't know as we ought to know. We only see through a glass darkly because of this flesh that our new creations our inner man in Christ - are still housed in.
Thank you for your kind remarks concerning me. I honor your input and trust the love of Christ that is in you which I believe you exhibit.
Bless you and your whole family Jim. I am blessed to be able to call you my beloved brother in the Lord.
I also want to say that I don't agree with everything any teacher says - no matter who they are. I pray that I won't agree with everything I believe today in 2 years as I learn more about the grace and love of our Lord for us. I look forward to repenting as I get to know our Lord more and see His beauty and love for us.
To me there is no greater revelation to know the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father - so let's endeavor to lift up Christ so that we can grow up in a body of Christ together.
We need each other. None of us knows it all and Paul says if we think we know things - than we don't know as we ought to know. We only see through a glass darkly because of this flesh that our new creations our inner man in Christ - are still housed in.
Thank you for your kind remarks concerning me. I honor your input and trust the love of Christ that is in you which I believe you exhibit.
Bless you and your whole family Jim. I am blessed to be able to call you my beloved brother in the Lord.
Genesis 3:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.
So more non scriptural nonsense from you.
Romans 16:17; 1 Cor. 15:33; Hebrews 12:15 - don't allow yourself to be defiled....just let them slander others in the body of Christ if they want. We have shown the scriptures of what we believe is the truth and we can trust the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to all of us.
Guard your heart from these types.
So more non scriptural nonsense from you.
Romans 16:17; 1 Cor. 15:33; Hebrews 12:15 - don't allow yourself to be defiled....just let them slander others in the body of Christ if they want. We have shown the scriptures of what we believe is the truth and we can trust the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to all of us.
Guard your heart from these types.