Yep, they even try to misrepresent Jesus words to prop up their constant "works of self righteousness" straw man. The main warning to avoid the leaven of the Pharisees was their HYPOCRISY.
Building upon a lie
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Yep, they even try to misrepresent Jesus words to prop up their constant "works of self righteousness" straw man. The main warning to avoid the leaven of the Pharisees was their HYPOCRISY.
So what is the difference between HG which I assume is hyper-grace and biblical grace? The kind we see in Eph 2:8-10.
Why must you dig at grace? Why not just keep your own nose clean and allow grace to abound much more where sin is present? Shall we go around and describe you as hyper-legal? Shall we declare everyone else hyper-something?
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
eph610
Guest
They dig at grace because they do not have the revelation of the difference between saving grace and empowering grace after salvation...
Whoop der it is again, the constant Straw man to poo poo those who speak out against ongoing sin.
HG takes grace and makes holiness, the christian walk, purity, transformation irrelevant.
It has a mystical theology, where we are actually a perfect eternal spirit in a sinful flesh
body, which we must come to realise to grow in maturity.
This is closer to gnostic teaching, and put the emphasis on emotional and spiritual experiences
rather than working on ones life, walking in good works and righteousness, and witnessing to
Christs love in our hearts.
Most were resistant to sharing on transformation within and the power of love set free, but
on continual sin and failure and realising Christ has done everything.
Scripture and contexts no longer matter, they redefine biblical terms to their own ends
which contradict the very roots from which they came. It is hard not to oppose such
a position which crosses so many lines and changes the gospel into a greed, self indulgence
fest.
The testimony I have seen from both sides of this argument is that both sides sin but all are forgiven through repentance by the advocate we have in Christ our Redeemer and mediator.
One believer said sin was doing anything that was not covered by faith.
So eating is sin, driving a car is sin etc.
When they saw you are to love God with everything they are, they extend this to mean
if they love anything else that is sin.
I call this hyper-legalism, where the goal is to condemn yourself in any and every way possible
so that you can say Jesus does everything and no believer can ever walk righteously.
But it is just another distortion and lie of a basic point of sin is the breaking of our relationship
with others through actions. You cannot sin by a neutral action, or by doing something that is
part of life. The Lord is very reasonable, which is clear from His law and intensions.
That is a very sectarian view in which you state what you believe someone else believes. Your position is no more valid than the one where water baptism is required for salvation or Holy Spirit baptism always results in the sign of tongues.
It is Gods business to grow His child as He sees fit. Do not criticize God for how He goes about to disciple another believer.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
This is true except there is a large difference between behaviour in the believer is irrelevant
as regards sin, because sin is already forgiven, and the counter argument sin is destructive and
part of the enemy of the Kingdom.
The second level is sin is expanded to impossible levels where it looses meaning or relevance.
If it does not matter we are free from the slavery of sin, why are we believers?
Is it not we are just sinners living in the world with the benefit of going to heaven?
God never brought this gospel to the world, and this is not the gospel of being born again.
I have a problem though Roger. How can I witness to Christs work in my life,
when I am told I do not know Christ?
How can I bring new believers to a church which says the basics of faith do not matter?
I have witnessed to the Lord for decades, and this is just heresy.
If they want to go off to their own religious group, that is fine, but they want to disown
and reject all the believers who do not conform to their theology.
It is why I have engaged with them to find out why and how they believe and why they
are so agressive and divisive in their sharing. I fear this is only the beginning of something
much worse, because it has all the hall marks of lawlessness.
Speak for yourself. And if one were truly born again of God's Spirit and truly set free from sin, then ongoing sin should not be a issue at all. But clearly some here are trying to justify ongoing wilful sin and still be saved. But I am here to tell you different BY THE WORDS OF GOD. A servant of sin abides not in the House forever=no eternal security for ongoing sinners= the unrighteous
1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived:
What you have responded to above is a classic example of taking scripture by itself to try to make it say what we want - without taking the finished work of Christ into the picture.
Christians are the righteousness of God in Christ now and will be forever. They are NOT the unrighteous.
However, if we live by the works of the flesh in this life - we will not be experiencing the kingdom of God in this earth which is part of our inheritance.
Paul told the Corinthians who they were in Christ..then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now...and going to hell
( this is the product of a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness unrenewed mindset full of condemnation )
..he told them who they were in Christ..saints..they have His righteousness, sanctification, redemption..etc.
Those in Corinth are the very same people that were causing divisions and strife amongst each other. Men going to have sex with the temple prostitutes, believers taking each other to court, people getting drunk at Communion..etc.
Paul called them carnal Christians and yet at the same time called them "saints" - that they have the righteousness of God, that they were complete in Him, that they had the mind of Christ, that they were sanctified...etc...that Christ was confirmed as being in them.
Then Paul goes on to say in verse 8 " who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Paul gives them their true identity in Christ then goes on to describe what this true life in Christ will look like. Paul says later on to "Awake to righteousness and sin not"
This is a call to see who you are in Christ and in seeing this - sin will fall off of us like dead leaves off a tree.
1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."
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Who claims sin is not destructive or that it is irrelevant? The FACT is you sin and everyone else sins so whatever you have to say after that fact is moot aside from the fact that our sins are forgiven because of the grace of God. Trying to erect some wall between you and someone who has a different understanding of how the grace of God operates is an enterprise you have been engaged in for how long now? I don't see anything changing here. Going to heaven is not even a viable Scriptural concept. It is a five year old child's level of understanding.
Actually "hyper gracers" don't believe in the need for repentance because they believe all future sins are already forgiven. Here is some of their false beliefs---->>>>
Source--->>>>Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince
That's some deadly poison doctrine they follow.
Now here is the point. How do you know everyone continues in sin? How do you know what
you are called to do other than walk without sin?
Your premise is righteousness and holiness, purity, do not matter because we will all fail.
You also do not understand the difference between lawlessness and following Jesus.
As people grow weary of doing good, and give in to evil and self indulgence, will anyone
be left standing?
Hebrews 10 is a call to persevere in faith, not unobtainable sinless perfection. If the OP understood this he'd share the Gospel of Jesus with a loving, joyful, encouraging heart rather than a heart filled with pride and contempt.
The Greek present tense primarily implies kind of action - that is - ongoing continued action. It actually has little to do with "present" time.
The context is critical to interpretation, but context does not negate the verb tense that the Greek text was written in.
You mention that the "if" phrase means to look at what is front of the verse -- correct - good point
The previous verse 25 talks about Christian gathering together and encouraging one another - Why? Because the judgment day is coming - and if we keep on sinning willfully then . . .
What are we fighting for?
The joke is I am not fighting for anything I am just rejoicing in Christ my Saviour.
And most of all I rejoice in the cross and His love for all of us. It is the power
of salvation, victory over sin and death.
This place for me is a place of discovery and learning different ways of expressing
the joy He has placed within me. The great thing about Jesus's light, is the darkness
cannot put it out, because darkness is just the absence of light.
The pure in heart will see God. This is the core of Jesus's offer of reality.
But you have to work to get there, it does not come free without effort.
The joke is I am not fighting for anything I am just rejoicing in Christ my Saviour.
And most of all I rejoice in the cross and His love for all of us. It is the power
of salvation, victory over sin and death.
This place for me is a place of discovery and learning different ways of expressing
the joy He has placed within me. The great thing about Jesus's light, is the darkness
cannot put it out, because darkness is just the absence of light.
The pure in heart will see God. This is the core of Jesus's offer of reality.
But you have to work to get there, it does not come free without effort.
This is true except there is a large difference between behaviour in the believer is irrelevant
as regards sin, because sin is already forgiven, and the counter argument sin is destructive and
part of the enemy of the Kingdom.
The second level is sin is expanded to impossible levels where it looses meaning or relevance.
If it does not matter we are free from the slavery of sin, why are we believers?
Is it not we are just sinners living in the world with the benefit of going to heaven?
God never brought this gospel to the world, and this is not the gospel of being born again.
Well said....I and others have said this about this mindset and the way some people "reformulate" what is said to make it into something else entirely. We have told him the same things over and over again and yet...he still persists in foolishness.
These "conclusions" are from your own construct in your mind. I have said it from the beginning I first met you on CC and others have told you the same things.
You take something someone says - you "construct" what you think they are saying and then make a whole new meaning out of it.
Then this thought seizes your mind until "it becomes real" to you in your own thinking. Then you proceed to "attack this self-perceived thought" as if it is real.
Some of us have told you the same thing over 50x times and yet you continue to say we are saying something else.
Some things you just can't understand like our sins are forgiven in Christ because of His blood but that's ok to agree to disagree too but you go and make it a completely different thing and accuse people that believe in forgiveness of sins as they want to sin all the time which is complete nonsense.
This is unfortunately the reason we have to implement Romans 16:17 with him and others until we see repentance as it is impossible to have a fruitful discussion.
Notice this comment here--->>>>
Compare to hyper grace doctrine here---->>>>
And you wonder where this stuff comes from?
Originally Posted by FreeNChrist
Christians have been made perfect forever by what Christ has done, not because we act perfectly.
Compare to hyper grace doctrine here---->>>>
And you wonder where this stuff comes from?
If the readers can see this, he's saying exactly what his hypergrace group is doing.
How many times have we read some of their posts & said, "HUH"? Don't they leave you confused? God is NOT the author of confusion.