Building upon a lie

[Grace777x70]

Here is where the accuser of the brethren is wrong again in his slandering even though he puts "his slant on things" regarding repentance,

Here is Joseph Prince @ the 1:10 mark telling people to repent if they are living in adultery.

I don't know how some so-called Christians that say think they are sinless can slander constantly and still think they don't willfully sin. Talk about deception.

[video=youtube;I-DcZA8NO44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DcZA8NO44[/video]

 

[Chester]

I've got an idea: Let's have a round table discussion of this issue after we all get to glory . . .

FreeNChrist, Grace 777, SpiritinTruth, PeterJens, Paul, and James

I think this could be some of the best entertainment available in glory! Just kidding!


Oh, I forgot . . . two of the six probably won't be there . . . . .
You choose which two!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!

(A) Grace 777 and FreeNChrist
(B) PeterJens and SpiritinTruth
(C) Paul and James

Maybe we should do a multiple choice poll!!!!

I will vote for C -- Just kidding!!

In all actuality, I wager a guess that these six will actually be able to have a good conversation in glory and have a good laugh over all of their previous differences!

Please don't interpret my comments as saying I don't like this discussion.

I love the discussion going on - I think we can and should all learn and listen . . . We are called to be prophets and sound the alarm when we see false doctrine!

Just don't get off onto calling others names or saying the other person is going to hell -- (even if they are!! - but let God do the judging!

 

[PeterJens]

Who claims sin is not destructive or that it is irrelevant? The FACT is you sin and everyone else sins so whatever you have to say after that fact is moot aside from the fact that our sins are forgiven because of the grace of God. Trying to erect some wall between you and someone who has a different understanding of how the grace of God operates is an enterprise you have been engaged in for how long now? I don't see anything changing here. Going to heaven is not even a viable Scriptural concept. It is a five year old child's level of understanding.

Is there a point of change?

I am a witness to Christs work in my life and heart, and putting a different message than
the continual drip feed of the poison of failure and defeat, lawlessness is ok.

And that is what Jesus calls us all to do, everyday, to lift up His truth and reality and His
work in our lives. If people kill us, reject us, abuse us, then amen, we have witnessed to
the greatest King of existance and to His son, Jesus Christ, and have been counted worthy
to share in His sufferings.

And to put it mildly, doing this here is tame. Meeting a psychopath who will kill one will be
harder but the same reality. It is why Stephen said, "I see Jesus at the right hand of the
Father."

Life is the temporary blink of an eye, a testimony to the eternal and who God is, Amen
and Halleluyah. We now live rediculously long, and our fellow believers in the past walked to
their deaths much earlier and bravely in life, which is a true testimony of our easy life we
often live and our fears of loosing so little in this consumer world that has grown around us.

 

[Stephen63]

The fact that some people don't read things the way it has supposedly been read for years is the what the catholic church used against Martin Luther. The church for over 1100 years had their doctrine until Luther came and said "The just shall live by faith".

We should be thankful that Luther brought justification by faith "back" to the church in spite of their claim "we have been doing this belief for 1100 years -who are you to change what has been believed?"

Listen to the Holy Spirit inside of us and we will grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ's love for us. You will also be persecuted and attacked for trusting in Christ's work alone for salvation but that is part of the deal.

The Lord never forsakes us! We can trust Him in all situations as He is faithful all the time. We have a great salvation in our Lord. Let's start believing in all that He has already done so that we can grow up in the Lord and help others in this life.

Comparing Joseph Prince's false doctrine to Luther's thesis makes one want to puke.

 

[notuptome]

I have a problem though Roger. How can I witness to Christs work in my life,
when I am told I do not know Christ?

How can I bring new believers to a church which says the basics of faith do not matter?

I have witnessed to the Lord for decades, and this is just heresy.
If they want to go off to their own religious group, that is fine, but they want to disown
and reject all the believers who do not conform to their theology.

It is why I have engaged with them to find out why and how they believe and why they
are so agressive and divisive in their sharing. I fear this is only the beginning of something
much worse, because it has all the hall marks of lawlessness.

Well if you have been at this for decades you should have sufficient maturity to understand that you cannot make others believe what you say to them. You are not responsible for what others believe only that you present the word of God and allow the Holy Spirit to teach, convict and move hearts for Gods glory.

Calling someone hyper-grace or hyper-legalist only causes them to resist what you are saying. When we stop trusting Gods word to work an effectual work in the hearts of others and resort to our own strength we are certain to fail. This is why the church as a whole is weak and powerless. The church has forsaken preaching the word of God and given into trying to make the message relevant in the society.

If we who name the name of Christ know the truth then the lie will be obvious. Those who see the truth in us will also see the lie in others. Trust the Lord to minister in others as He has in you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PeterJens]

he still persists in foolishness.

It is interesting how one can put together what sounds like a response but is just slander.
I have responded to this lots of times, but it is irrelevant.

Unless the heart opens and truth walks in the blind remain blind.

Often in peoples lives there are key issues that unlock them.
It could be parents, children, wives, husbands, something that took the emotional
edge off them and left them only partly functioning.

I was listening to the radio and the commentator said a friend of his who he grew up
with as a teenager suddenly withdrew and stopped responding. It turned out he had
been abused by an adult, but this destroyed a lot of things in his life.

But now he was believed and he stopped blaming himself he had started to come back.

What I am sharing is simple and straightforward, obvious biblical realities but here it is
like walking through treacle. But this is the real spiritual warfare of ideas and lies, of
abusive behaviour and walking with Jesus.

So God bless you all because in the end it is to Him we answer, so be careful and listen
to His words, they really do matter.

 

[notuptome]

Comparing Joseph Prince's false doctrine to Luther's thesis makes one want to puke.

While just a tiny bit earthy it is true. Spewing from the mouth seems more refined.

Joseph Prince should however have that effect on all believers.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stephen63]

I've got an idea: Let's have a round table discussion of this issue after we all get to glory . . .

FreeNChrist, Grace 777, SpiritinTruth, PeterJens, Paul, and James

I think this could be some of the best entertainment available in glory! Just kidding!


Oh, I forgot . . . two of the six probably won't be there . . . . .
You choose which two!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!

(A) Grace 777 and FreeNChrist
(B) PeterJens and SpiritinTruth
(C) Paul and James

Maybe we should do a multiple choice poll!!!!

I will vote for C -- Just kidding!!

In all actuality, I wager a guess that these six will actually be able to have a good conversation in glory and have a good laugh over all of their previous differences!

Sorry, my friend, but you would be wrong. anyone who doesn't teach/preach the truth that is in Christ is an antichrist.

 

[Stephen63]

Would you ever commit adultery on your wife?
Probably never

Why would you never have an affair?

Because you love your wife with all your mind soul and strength and she loves you the same way and both of you have more than just physical intimacy with each other. You have emotional and spiritual intimacy with each other and it is the love & intimacy for each other that keeps you from seeking out other women and her seeking out other men.

This love and intimacy makes following the rules and regulations of your marriage instinctive and you don't give them a second a thought and follow them without compulsion to perform or fear of judgement or loss

Likewise those that believe in empowering grace would never commit adultery with Jesus, by living in SIN...why?
Because we have intimacy with him and he has intimacy with us...it is out love for him that keeps us from living a life of SIN.

Our love and intimacy with Jesus makes following the rules and regulations in the Word instinctive and we don't give them a second a thought and follow them without compulsion to perform or fear of judgement or loss

God's will for Christians is that they seek to worship him in spirit and truth and many, like you, cannot do that, because you see him as the Angry Judge, ready to throw you in hell for any law you disobey, ready to take away your salvation when you mess up, constantly trying to "appease" him through self righteous performances and acts....

The people in my above description have failed themselves greatly, because they have never, ever related to God by looking at Jesus Christ....

Just like the scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees, they could see, but needed to become blind again to have vision.

I don't know the God you describe Stephen, but I do know and relate to the God that came in the form of man, named Jesus Christ...

Maybe you should try Jesus on, instead of religion...

Maybe you should try Grace, instead of hypergrace.

 

[Grace777x70]

Comparing Joseph Prince's false doctrine to Luther's thesis makes one want to puke.

Sorry Stephen..not falling for your "baiting". You are just exhibiting your malice and slander because you don't agree with others in some areas. That is fine - you are entitled to believe and act however you want.

 

[PeterJens]

Well if you have been at this for decades you should have sufficient maturity to understand that you cannot make others believe what you say to them. You are not responsible for what others believe only that you present the word of God and allow the Holy Spirit to teach, convict and move hearts for Gods glory.

Calling someone hyper-grace or hyper-legalist only causes them to resist what you are saying. When we stop trusting Gods word to work an effectual work in the hearts of others and resort to our own strength we are certain to fail. This is why the church as a whole is weak and powerless. The church has forsaken preaching the word of God and given into trying to make the message relevant in the society.

If we who name the name of Christ know the truth then the lie will be obvious. Those who see the truth in us will also see the lie in others. Trust the Lord to minister in others as He has in you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Amen. We need more preaching of the word, more asking how to put the word into
action in our lives and more faith to believe God will bless us when we do this.

 

[Chester]

Sorry, my friend, but you would be wrong. anyone who doesn't teach/preach the truth that is in Christ is an antichrist.

What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. Philippians 1:18

But you are right that if Christ is not preached - then it is antichrist -- if you feel that way, you have a right to voice that!

Luther would have suggested that James might not be there . . .

 

[PeterJens]

Some things you just can't understand like our sins are forgiven in Christ because of His blood but that's ok to agree to disagree too but you go and make it a completely different thing and accuse people that believe in forgiveness of sins as they want to sin all the time which is complete nonsense.

I have a real problem with the above statement to believe a christian could write it.
Ofcourse I believe our sins are forgiven in Christ, I follow Jesus.

So here is someone saying he follows Jesus yet has no problem lying.
Now for those who say they want to get right with God, walk sincerely and correctly,
with integrity and honesty, this is just hypocracy.

The second lie is I accuse people of wanting to sin all the time.
I testify only to peoples own description of their own lives. I am speaking the truth.
It is amazing how someone who himself has taken part in such discussion would lie
about them. But then when lying is second nature to ones lifestyle, I expect nothing
more.

So I wonder why other people respect you to any degree what so ever.

But then that is the point about liars, there is never a point of realisation, oh that was
a lie, it is all about propoganda and winning the argument through any means available.

But the problem with truth, is it is not a person, it is eternal, and it finds everyone out.
So I just stand here speaking the truth, and the truth sets to work.

It is interesting how many disputes I have been in when my enemies have tried to corner
me only to be hit harder by their own lies. Not a good strategy, but then the enemy has
always been defeated in Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

The slander defence

If you sin and slander the opposition, if they speak the truth back about you, you just
say it is slander. Now this becomes a bit of a slanging match until you realise who is speaking
the truth and who is lying.

And it actually matters.
Answering points makes a difference, because the accusation are often just generalities, it is
the specifics that show the truth.

What I have found is people prod the enemy to get something they can jump on to discredit
them even when 100's of issues discredit their own position they are all ignored.

It makes a fight much harder when integrity and honesty are no longer in the game.
But the audience is always greater than the fight, so it is worth standing ones ground, because
the issues are our faith, life and death, eternity and the lake of fire.

So I encourage you, read the word of God, work through the issues and do not be afraid to ask
the Holy Spirit to make things plain to you. His sheep know His voice.

God has been faithful to me for 56 years, and still going. Stand strong for the cross makes Him
worthy of the fight.

 

[Stephen63]

Who claims sin is not destructive or that it is irrelevant? The FACT is you sin and everyone else sins so whatever you have to say after that fact is moot aside from the fact that our sins are forgiven because of the grace of God. Trying to erect some wall between you and someone who has a different understanding of how the grace of God operates is an enterprise you have been engaged in for how long now? I don't see anything changing here. Going to heaven is not even a viable Scriptural concept. It is a five year old child's level of understanding.

You're saying that a 5 yr old can understand hypergrace? We have old adults on here that is still confused by it. Those that know hypergrace know it's the worst heresy since OSAS..... definitely 3 times worse, IMO.

I've seen PJ on here for over a year & he's usually polite..... more than me. He posts by himself, doesn't have a following, & bothers nobody. Yet you come at him.

Lots of people came after both Jesus & Paul, but it wasn't for a blessing. They couldn't stand their words.

That's what I see here..... you can't stand his words. It's like kicking & screaming at a dog that doesn't bark or bite.

 

[Stephen63]

Here is where the accuser of the brethren is wrong again in his slandering even though he puts "his slant on things" regarding repentance,

Here is Joseph Prince @ the 1:10 mark telling people to repent if they are living in adultery.

I don't know how some so-called Christians that say think they are sinless can slander constantly and still think they don't willfully sin. Talk about deception.

[video=youtube;I-DcZA8NO44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DcZA8NO44[/video]

He's telling his congregation to repent when he's already told them over & over they don't do that anymore?

 

[Grace777x70]

You're saying that a 5 yr old can understand hypergrace? We have old adults on here that is still confused by it. Those that know hypergrace know it's the worst heresy since OSAS..... definitely 3 times worse, IMO.

I've seen PJ on here for over a year & he's usually polite..... more than me. He posts by himself, doesn't have a following, & bothers nobody. Yet you come at him.

Lots of people came after both Jesus & Paul, but it wasn't for a blessing. They couldn't stand their words.

That's what I see here..... you can't stand his words. It's like kicking & screaming at a dog that doesn't bark or bite.

Things you read that make you go...




He has called believers in the gospel of the grace of Christ every name that is possible from being satanic, to liars, to lovers of sin, false teachers, heretics, demonic, delusional. ..etc....LOL

Where have you been?....lol

 

[Grace777x70]

He's telling his congregation to repent when he's already told them over & over they don't do that anymore?

You obviously have no idea of what is really being said about repentance. I will give this out again - most likely for the 20th time - let alone all the other times others have written about repentance.

Myth 1: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Repentance

“Hyper-grace preachers say there’s no need for repentance. They dismiss repentance as unbelief.” Actually, hyper-grace preachers are for repentance, not against it. We say things like “repentance is essential” and “repentance is to be our lifestyle.” We are for repentance, for without it no one can receive the grace of God.
But what is repentance?

Repentance is one of those words that means different things to different people. Those with a performance-oriented mindset typically interpret repentance as turning from sin. It’s something you do (turn) as a result of something you’ve done (sinned). It’s fixing what you broke. It’s atoning for your mistakes. It’s sewing fig leaves to hide your shame.

In contrast, faith-based repentance is always done in response to something God has done. It’s the change of heart and mind that happens when you encounter His grace. It’s often evidenced by turning to God in praise and gratitude.

A mixed-grace gospel will define repentance in terms of a prescribed set of behaviors (e.g., turning from sin) and emotions (e.g., sorrow and grief). But insisting on the proper way to repent is tantamount to putting people under law.

The fruit of repentance may take 101 different forms—don’t limit God—but repentance itself is simply a change of mind. It’s what the word literally means.

In the words of Watchman Nee:

Repentance … means a change of mind! Formerly I thought sin a pleasant thing, but now I have changed my mind about it; formerly I thought the world an attractive place, but now I know better; formerly I regarded it a miserable business to be a Christian, but now I think differently. Once I thought certain things delightful, now I think them vile; once I thought other things utterly worthless, now I think them most precious. That is a change of mind, and that is repentance. No life can be truly changed apart from such a change of mind. (The Normal Christian Life, p.132)

We all agree that repentance is a good thing and that there should be more of it, but how do we get people to repent? A mixed-grace preacher will use carrots (“Turn from sin if you want to see God”) and sticks (“If you don’t, you’ll pay the price”), but this is the way of the flesh, not faith. This sort of repentance will lead you to trust in your own repenting efforts and miss grace. Consider the Pharisees. They turned from sin on a daily basis yet they did not recognize the Grace of God even as He came and stood among them.

Mixed-grace preachers say, “We need more preaching on repentance,” as though this would motivate people to repent. But it won’t. Only one thing is guaranteed in scripture to lead people to repentance and that is a revelation of God’s goodness:


… God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance. (Romans 2:4b, ESV)
Repentance isn’t doing something about your sin. Repentance is responding positively to God’s kindness and grace…

How does a hyper-grace preacher encourage repentance? By preaching the goodness of God as revealed in Jesus. A mixed gospel says, “You gotta repent or else,” but the hyper-grace gospel says, “See Jesus!” Old covenant repentance puts the focus on you and your badness, but new covenant repentance puts the focus on Him and His goodness.

When you see the Lord of grace looking at you with love and affection, you will repent. You will turn from sin to Him not because you have been bribed with carrots or threatened with sticks but because Jesus is more attractive than anything this world offers.

He is the Beauty who draws us to Himself.

https://escapetoreality.org/2014/08/20/hyper-grace-repentance/

 

[Stephen63]

What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. Philippians 1:18

But you are right that if Christ is not preached - then it is antichrist -- if you feel that way, you have a right to voice that!

Luther would have suggested that James might not be there . . .

They preach a different Jesus, a different faith, a different grace, a different repentance, a different confession, & a different Paul. It's antichrist.

 

[Grace777x70]

He's telling his congregation to repent when he's already told them over & over they don't do that anymore?

Here is another one for you - eventually maybe you'll start saying what is "really being said". You don't have to agree with it - just be honest when you are making statements so that you will not slander others.

Repentance does also mean that we stop sinning by the grace of Christ working in our lives too as His life is manifested in us. We change our mind about everything concerning Christ and our reliance on Him - including how we view sinning.

It is a by-product of having already repented to trust in Christ's finished work for us and to rely on His life and grace to transform us. 2 Cor. 3:17-18[h=1]Objection #3: Hyper-Grace Preachers Don’t Believe in Repentance[/h]Not only do we believe in repentance, but we seek to understand and teach it thoroughly and accurately. In the New Testament, “to repent” is a translation of the Greek verb “metanoeo” meaning “to change one’s mind or perspective.”

Obviously, when we receive Christ, we have repented in the genuine sense of the term – changing our minds about our need of a Savior and receiving Christ.

Before Christ, we lived as self-sufficiently as possible, thinking that God would probably grade on a curve and accept us at least partly on the basis of our own best efforts and self-generated goodness. When we came to understand our spiritual bankruptcy and our desperate need for Christ’s forgiveness and new life, we repented (had a change of perspective) and received Christ by trusting in Him alone to rescue us.

Beyond this initial experience of “getting saved” (as we often call it), repentance is a daily lifestyle in which an ongoing “renewal of the mind” process is taking place within us. As we grow in faith and in our understanding of God through His Word and our union with His Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:17), we begin to replace old thinking with new thinking and false thinking with true thinking.

This renewal of the mind (Rom. 12:1-3) is an integral part of the transformative process of the Spirit’s work in our lives. This is the essence of a lifestyle of repentance – taking false thoughts captive, making them obedient to (in conformity with) Christ (2 Cor. 10:5).

Paul affirmed in no uncertain terms that God’s kindness (His expressed grace toward us) is what leads to repentance (Rom. 2:4). Far from being anti-repentance, hyper-grace theology affirms repentance and the ongoing renewal of the mind as an integral part of what it means to follow Jesus under His New Covenant.

Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections