Good grief! Do you SEE that peter is saying what I was just saying?? He thinks, as I did, that you are telling him to completely ignore the motions of his heart that he clearly sees are not good. To not regret his murder, anger, lack of humility, etc. He has the same problem with the phrase! It is how some peoples minds work differently and so cannot see what is meant and need a different explanation rather than the same repeated phrases. I am telling the truth here - despite seeing what appeared to me to be a great love for our Lord, I began to suspect that the people using these phrases over and over might be cult-like in some manner! I probably have appeared just as odd to them...!
Two useless/inappropriate/wrong accusations
- Thread starter Chester
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Stunned - In my travels through religious, philosophical, theological concepts you will find
people jump from one idea to another without knowing how or why they do it.
Every group has an emotional formula of identification, which marks their belief system and
how they define who they identify with.
You know how closed minded ones own thoughts are when you turn the meaning into
different words, does it still work. If it does not, it is a marker for a feeling and not its
real meaning, and so is probably a deception.
"Jesus is the way, the truth and the life"
Exclusive statement, you cannot be saved by anything else, so is a criticism of others,
or is it just a statement of reality?
You eat to stay alive. Does this mean you will try to stop eating? Or it is ridiculous
to believe this because it means non-eaters are doomed.
So Jesus is the life. But some deny His words and His intent.
Some deny His way, it was just to show impossibility.
Some deny His truth, Gods words are false and not worthy of deep analysis or thought.
Yet they claim to point at Jesus and look only to Him. I think they are lying.
People are trying to exhort people like Peter to live by the life of Christ in him and not in his own human effort or by his own human reasoning. People are refuting Peter's mis-understanding of the new creation in Christ - and also about the new heart that is ours because we are made new in Christ.
To him anything spiritual in Christ because of what Christ has done is mystical and he can't see the realities of the new heart and so others are blind and full of hypocrisy. This is NOT the way to grow up in Christ.
Sometimes when people are repeating a phrase is because they understand it. It is revelation truth to them.
For example I heard for years - "just trust Jesus." I always thought - well , how do you do that? That is just a phrase.
Now that I understand the gospel of the grace of Christ - I can "see" spiritually and practically how that works. I never once thought that the people that said "to trust in Jesus" were a cult because I didn't understand it. These "heretics" still said "trust in Jesus" all the time...despite my lack of understanding.
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What has always stunned me is how lost these people are, in malice about where they
have come from.
If they could love legalists, and accept their legalism from the past, and know Christs
love working through them this blindness would not exist.
But everytime I talk about love and the heart, it does not echo with them.
But then a blind person is still blind, and these words mean nothing to them
Only the sheep know their Lord and master.
I shared with a friend from school who had become a pentecostal into gifts
etc. and the Holy Spirit how love had transformed me, and opened my eyes.
Not even a blink in their eyes, no understanding or empathy.
Love needs to bring forth its fruit of revelation to the soul.
Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
John 13:34
have come from.
If they could love legalists, and accept their legalism from the past, and know Christs
love working through them this blindness would not exist.
But everytime I talk about love and the heart, it does not echo with them.
But then a blind person is still blind, and these words mean nothing to them
Only the sheep know their Lord and master.
I shared with a friend from school who had become a pentecostal into gifts
etc. and the Holy Spirit how love had transformed me, and opened my eyes.
Not even a blink in their eyes, no understanding or empathy.
Love needs to bring forth its fruit of revelation to the soul.
Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
John 13:34
Okay...but my point was that to Peter (and it also appeared this way to me) it appears as if you are saying this: just ignore your sin because you will never rule over it in your heart and nothing can be done to make you stop sinning. Instead, know that the sin that comes from within you to defile you is no longer really you. It is just the "dead you" that will always harass you. You cannot have victory over it, so just ignore it. And in addition, you should not be sorry for your sin because repent does not mean to be sorry but to simply change your mind. So when you murder in spirit, in your heart, just ignore it instead of calling out to God about it. You are perfect even if you never rule over the sin inside you that comes from within to defile you.
I know this is not what you mean to say. I am expressing only how it appears to some that this is what you're saying.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Thanks, You just proved you teach a works based salvation. For you claim a believer can be worthy to be saved. And if this is so. Then he has earned salvation.
Try to deny it, there you have it in your own words.
You are absolutely right. No one ( that I have seen ) is saying even remotely what some are "seeing" in what people are seemingly saying.
I am saying the complete opposite. I am saying "look to Jesus and what He has already done". His life in us will transform us as we grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are a new creation in Him and we have now a new heart. He is in our heart. Our new heart is not evil. Christ lives in our new heart and we are one with Him.
We have explained the difference out many times in the past to Peter and he still says the complete opposite of what is being said which is why some of us have him on ignore. His mindset does not compute what is really being said as he "re-constructs" things in his mind and then proceeds to attack them as if they are real.
I have tried many different ways to express truths but they were all met with being called a heretic, demonic, false teacher, that we are delusional..etc.
I just post what I believe and I will let the Holy Spirit speak to all of us where we are at in our individual journeys with the Lord which we are joined as one with. He will be faithful to us in all things...
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I have heard this 1000 times, It would be fine if we did. Not prove over and over this is what we mean. The fact that Peter has seen this discussion over and over thought would negate that that is what is actually going on.
Peter can not remove himself from the equation. That's his problem. Not that he focuses on sin. Which he should not be doing that anyway, because that takes him to law (having a consciousness of sin is not focusing on sin so let's not go there) The law judges sin, if we focus on sin, how else can we relate, than to think, I am not worthy, I still sin, I still do these things, How can God ever love me.
When instead we should allow God to train us, Confess that sin and move on.. Getting our minds BACK on the spirit,. And off the flesh (self)
G
Gr8grace
Guest
Oh yes, there is nothing of worth within the believer;
This is where all the contention stems from. What makes you worthy?
God sees us worthy of saving because of who and what He is.He is virtuous. He loves based upon who and what He is, not because of who and what the creature is.
So what makes you worthy?
L
LaurenTM
Guest
this is an important truth that is often so overlooked
we are each responsible for our own little 'domains'
go look in the mirror...that's your land...claim it for the Lord and ask Him to be the owner of your vinyard
you are engrafted into the vine...but Jesus is the TRUE vine and you don't become Jewish...everyone, whether Jew or Gentile is saved the same way if they believe in their hearts concerning the Son of God
water yourself with the word...fertilize with the Holy Spirit...weed yourself...sin, lack of faith...put on the armor!
works are not salvation; they are or can be the result of salvation
fruit, is the life of Christ in you
salvation is not ongoing...salvation is NOW
without salvation, you do not have anything else that follows
when God gives, He does not take back...He does not whip us in and out of salvation...that is sheer nonsense
Get into the word and pray that God gets the doodle head nonsense out and the truth in
L
LaurenTM
Guest
God's grace is the anchor in the maelstrom of this world
if you cannot accept that, you have lost sight of Christ
truly
if you cannot accept that, you have lost sight of Christ
truly
Stunned - Let me bring a revelation to you. They are lying. This is exactly what they believe
but they want to say this is not what they are meaning because it sounds so wrong.
But that is exactly the deception. Unless people can put the ideas together to mean they
can actually walk righteously and in purity, which they continually deny, this is their position.
Now liars have a problem, consistent truth does not matter to them.
As a human I can hold two opposite ideas and deny they are opposite because emotionally
I am happy about it all, and as long as I do not look at the contradiction everything is fine.
This is what blindness is.
So EG says if I say God chooses us because he sees something worthy in us, that is works
salvation. The error is what God sees as worthy He does not declare, but if we were not
of value to Him, we would not be chosen. The apostles seemed to express this as innocense,
lost in sin, with a potential to have a loving relationship with Him.
Jesus seemed to be saying love in the heart of man, no matter how small was a seed of hope.
Now in the end it is obvious both EG and Grace777 will not change, even if their positions are
totally flawed. They hold a mirage of faith, but deny its essential realities, to bring us to reality,
truth and freedom, to literally switch the light on to the nature of sin and how to be free.
But blind people declare their blindness by declaring their slavery to sin, and denying there is
ever any freedom, and that is what Christ meant. Now if Christ has touched your heart, you
know what I am talking about.
Well...the Holy Spirit shows me what is truly in me so that I will not be a Pharisee and think I am not a sinner but that others are. And when He shows me what is truly in me, I hunger and thirst after righteousness in my inner man. I cannot help it. I want to be good. I want to not murder in spirit AND to not murder in actual outer deed. At this exact point, I then went wrong and I feel deeply to help anyone I can to not take the wrong turn I took if I can possibly get them to understand what that wrong turn was.
I don't agree that clearly and in a painfully exacting manner seeing my sin, is wrong. How could it be wrong when it was He that showed it to me? The wrong turn is in what I do about having seen it.
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Gr8grace
Guest
So much so that we have pretty much made every single verse about salvation, even to the point of using it to try "unsave" pretty much every believer who lives!
It is crazy to watch. end times stuff IMO.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
And there you have it, In black and white. It does not matter what anyone says, Peter is God and he knows our hearts, So he gets to say who is right and who is wrong.
The reality is, He has predetermined he is right, and everyone else is wrong. Thus it does not matter what anyone says to him, If he does not agree, we are in error. No matter how much proof one gives.
no they are not lying. I caught YOU in a straight-up lie a couple of weeks ago. you stated that you do not tell others what they believe. you do this all the time. so, saying that you do not do something that you do is lie.
so this in itself disqualifies you from you own system.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
As I said, Seeing your sin, and focusing on it are two different things, I am sorry if you misunderstood me.
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LaurenTM
Guest
Salvation is the key that turns the lock on a future with our Savior
you know, I pretty much grew up believing as I do now...guess God blessed me with a church that had a very good foundational belief in salvation and what it required......BELIEVE!!!
I have learned heaps through study and life, but that foundation is what my little chateau is built on!!
seems some folks are building shacks and some are even constructing outhouses
God is a much better architect!!
Nonsense - this is just a "construct" made up in their own "mind". Here is what I say about the grace of God and living in Christ.
Grace empowers us to "works"...works that are good in His eyes.
True grace doesn't not permit us to stay the same; after we know we are not condemned - it empowers us to change and to do good works from the life of Christ in us.
Grace was never intended to allow us to keep on being the same as true grace after knowing acceptance grace and having this truth cemented in our hearts - it is then that God's empowerment is released through the life of Christ in and through us that transforms us.
When we see that we are called to the true life in Christ and we know that we can't work it up and can't accomplish it in our own self-effort and strength but we surely desire to live this life that is in us in Christ - that's when empowering grace comes to make our faith a reality in our lives.
Grace empowers us to "works"...works that are good in His eyes.
True grace doesn't not permit us to stay the same; after we know we are not condemned - it empowers us to change and to do good works from the life of Christ in us.
Grace was never intended to allow us to keep on being the same as true grace after knowing acceptance grace and having this truth cemented in our hearts - it is then that God's empowerment is released through the life of Christ in and through us that transforms us.
When we see that we are called to the true life in Christ and we know that we can't work it up and can't accomplish it in our own self-effort and strength but we surely desire to live this life that is in us in Christ - that's when empowering grace comes to make our faith a reality in our lives.
G
Gr8grace
Guest
Oh yes, there is nothing of worth within the believer;
If this was true then no one would ever be saved, God would just make a new creation without man.
This is where all the contention stems from. What makes you worthy?
God sees us worthy of saving because of who and what He is.He is virtuous. He loves based upon who and what He is, not because of who and what the creature is.
So what makes you worthy?