Two useless/inappropriate/wrong accusations

[eternally-gratefull]

Weirdly I am being told I believe something that I do not.
By the definition above, EG is playing God. Poetic that.

even weirder.

EG never said one thing today about what you believe. or if I did, it was so long ago, it is not even in this conversation.

so once again, You are just trying to shift the blame to someone else by falsly accusing.

 

[eph610]

The best example I can think of is the contrast between David and Saul. Saul was always intent on doing things his way and serving God his way. He disobeyed the instructions from Samuel, and didn't wait for him to start the burnt offerings. When corrected, his response was basically that it should be good enough. He didn't seem really intent on submitting himself to God. David probably committed one of the worst sins in the OT, but shows an entirely different attitude towards God.

Wisdom right here! This is because David had relationship and knew what to do to maintain it....I did not say maintain salvation, I said martian relationship.....just clarifying that for others that would read into what I was actually saying....


Today we teach presence of God and that covers everything, but not relationship with Jesus...In Matt 7.23 the Greek word Knew means the very ting the word means in Hebrew and it means a great intimate knowledge of someone...this is why he said many will come to me proclaiming great works they did in my name....yet he did not know them...

Rev 3.20 shows us this as well, many think this is a salvation verse, but it is not, it is deeper than that, it is open the door and let me dine with you, share the same plate with you....

I have heard some pastors/teachers state that the word Knew means such great intimacy at the same level a husband and wife share physically...because at that point you become one in Soul, Spirit and Body....

I am sure my words will get turned around now....

 

[Chester]

one of us put quotes in the wrong area. Then it continued, and will until someone corrects is.. if you look at this post as I am quoting it, It says quote = chester twice. you have to erase the second quote.

Thanks! Makes sense.

 

[PeterJens]

I hear you, PeterJens, -- I think these guys will discuss with you if you don't call them names. And if they call you names, just be gentle and loving back. Listen and try to learn from them, and they will do the same for you.

You know the funny thing is I have tried to discuss things, but I like facts, actual
faith positions. I do not compromise over these, and I am straight.

They do not like this, because I will point out inconsistences straight away.
And I have no reason to hold to the heretics they admire.

So this is not neutral territory, and any opportunity they attempt to literally
destroy me. But I have the full armour of God, and everytime they fail.
Christ is so good, and His righteousness is our shinning light.

 

[Persuaded]

I am confused.
How can a person believe that Jesus has the power to save you, but somehow does not have the power to keep you saved?
How can you trust Him to save you, if you can not trust Him to keep you?
Can you help me out here?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wisdom right here! This is because David had relationship and knew what to do to maintain it....I did not say maintain salvation, I said martian relationship.....just clarifying that for others that would read into what I was actually saying....


Today we teach presence of God and that covers everything, but not relationship with Jesus...In Matt 7.23 the Greek word Knew means the very ting the word means in Hebrew and it means a great intimate knowledge of someone...this is why he said many will come to me proclaiming great works they did in my name....yet he did not know them...

Rev 3.20 shows us this as well, many think this is a salvation verse, but it is not, it is deeper than that, it is open the door and let me dine with you, share the same plate with you....

I have heard some pastors/teachers state that the word Knew means such great intimacy at the same level a husband and wife share physically...because at that point you become one in Soul, Spirit and Body....

I am sure my words will get turned around now....

I agree with almost everything you said.

Please don't think I am trying to attack you. Just have a different opinion

I disagree about rev 3 though. I think it is a salvation, then new relationship which follows verse.

God knocks on the door of our heart, and asks us to let him in, We either ignore him, act like he is not there. Say thank you but no thank you. Or let him in.

To those who let him in, they are saved, and start a new eternal relationship where they will dine with each other. and become friends. and eventually, bride and groom (the wedding supper of the lamb)

 

[Chester]

if y'all keep doing the same thing and complaining about the results

maybe, change what you are doing?

ie...if someone bugs the snot of you...why keep blowing their nose?

I like this, Lauren - but too bad you can't read it - I guess I am still on ignore!

I am not as bad as you might think - but if you will let me I will apologize - I am sorry about constantly correcting you.

I didn't mean it that way at all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You know the funny thing is I have tried to discuss things, but I like facts, actual
faith positions. I do not compromise over these, and I am straight.

They do not like this, because I will point out inconsistences straight away.
And I have no reason to hold to the heretics they admire.

So this is not neutral territory, and any opportunity they attempt to literally
destroy me. But I have the full armour of God, and everytime they fail.
Christ is so good, and His righteousness is our shinning light.

we do not compromise either.

However, we do have opened hearts and minds, Quite a few of us have changed our opinions on certain things since we arrived in here.

It is one thing to not compromise, it is another to be to proud to open your heart and admit you may be wrong about someone or something.

 

[eph610]

it still means the same

if we (who are we?) lose faith

He (Christ) is faithful

He can not deny himself (which is why he remains faithful and true to his word)


the only reason to go back is to determine who "we" are (since it is not said in the actual verse)

Ok gotcha brother, missed what we were trying to interpret, I thought something different...

 

[Chester]

I am confused.
How can a person believe that Jesus has the power to save you, but somehow does not have the power to keep you saved?
How can you trust Him to save you, if you can not trust Him to keep you?
Can you help me out here?

???? Who or what group of people are you talking about (that believe this)?

I have not met anyone or been to any church that teaches such a thing - and I have not believed in "once saved always saved" all my life.

Honestly - I have not heard the idea above one time - except from the anti-OSAS crowd as an accusation!

 

[LaurenTM]

I know this is a serious thread, but your meme just made me laugh so hard. I love it, haha

yes it is a serious thread

consider that a perspective break....

 

[PeterJens]

Just to prove a point here is EG saying what I believe when I have not,
so who is telling the truth and who is slandering?

Oh yes, there is nothing of worth within the believer;

If this was true then no one would ever be saved, God would just make a new creation without man.
For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
Matt 9:13
God came to purchase a bride, a people of God.
A shepherd values each lost sheep to be worthy of saving.
And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
Matt 10:30-31

Thanks, You just proved you teach a works based salvation. For you claim a believer can be worthy to be saved. And if this is so. Then he has earned salvation.
Try to deny it, there you have it in your own words.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just to prove a point here is EG saying what I believe when I have not,
so who is telling the truth and who is slandering?

I told the truth.

She said no one has any worth (basically no one can save themselves, because no one is worthy)

You told her she was wrong, then tried to say how people have all kinds of value.

Which proved my point. You refuse to admit or acknowledge that without God. No one can do one but of Good. there is no good with in us.. we can not save ourelves. or make ourselves holy. all we can do is trust God to do his work in us.

see. Unlike you. I did not just say your wrong, I proved it..

 

[garee]

Just to be precise, I do not hold to OSAS. But because of this I must be a works believer
and a legalistic. But I am neither.

What kind of a legalistic, one that follows the law of faith in respect to the work of Christ's faith as a labor of His love or one who thinks they have a part of the work of salvation as a group effort?

I really don’t see a limbo in between the doctrine of OSAS and the need crucify Christ over and over as a demonstration of a finished work in respect to the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world as that which he begins and a believer and works to finish it all the way to the end. Are you saying if He does begin the work, and someone else has to finish it? I only see two possibilities either a person has the Spirit of Christ in them or they do not? Either all the work of salvation is done or none.

 

[PeterJens]

I am confused.
How can a person believe that Jesus has the power to save you, but somehow does not have the power to keep you saved?
How can you trust Him to save you, if you can not trust Him to keep you?
Can you help me out here?

This comes down to what you believe salvation is.
In a real sense His sheep are saved, but from our perspective we see only through the
light we have received.
And what matters to me is walking with Christ, not the theory of who is saved and how they
keep being saved.

The other problem is the more mystical you become, we are a new creation, perfect from the
point of faith, and sin is just the flesh and not yourself, the more you believe you are race apart,
like a alien from another planet, which is simply a different faith than the gospel the apostles preached.

History is littered with movements like this, for instance the quakers, and many more a lot more
wacky. So you get jewels, gold dust, angel feathers, gold teeth, baying dogs, lions, soldiers,
command theology creating things exnihilo, the gods theology, latter rain, health and wealth, wof.

I am simply a follower of Christ and His words. Very traditional and biblical, with an emphasis
on the gifts, tongues, prophecy, evangelism etc. This was meat and drink in the 70's & 80's
But now I am the legalist heretic with the Jezebel spirit, lol.

 

[PeterJens]

What kind of a legalistic, one that follows the law of faith in respect to the work of Christ's faith as a labor of His love or one who thinks they have a part of the work of salvation as a group effort?

I really don’t see a limbo in between the doctrine of OSAS and the need crucify Christ over and over as a demonstration of a finished work in respect to the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world as that which he begins and a believer and works to finish it all the way to the end. Are you saying if He does begin the work, and someone else has to finish it? I only see two possibilities either a person has the Spirit of Christ in them or they do not? Either all the work of salvation is done or none.

Ok. I agree everything would be neat and tidy like this.
The parable of the seed and the sower. A plant must take root, grow and produce fruit.
The parable of the vine. We are the branches but we can dry up and die.
The unfaithful servant. We can disobey, abuse our position and walk away.
The prodigal son. We can walk away, take our gifts and deny our Lord.

What are we as people? We are born in the flesh with a history. We are born into Christ, but we
need to walk in it for it to become our totality, discipleship, sanctification. It is faith that keeps us
and Jesus who walks with us. Peter, the rock, still had a rocky time. Paul taught we have to mature,
we need to establish ourselves, to run a race, to persever. The churches in revelation are called to
victory, to overcome. We are perfect in the light of the revelation we have today, but tomorrow we
must walk in the new revelation and the new steps we need to take. We are called to the walk and
to the relationship, not to a free ticket for entry into paradise.

 

[Grace777x70]

John 17:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

1 Corinthians 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,


1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

2 Corinthians 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,


Philippians 3:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok. I agree everything would be neat and tidy like this.
The parable of the seed and the sower. A plant must take root, grow and produce fruit.
The parable of the vine. We are the branches but we can dry up and die.
The unfaithful servant. We can disobey, abuse our position and walk away.
The prodigal son. We can walk away, take our gifts and deny our Lord.

What are we as people? We are born in the flesh with a history. We are born into Christ, but we
need to walk in it for it to become our totality, discipleship, sanctification. It is faith that keeps us
and Jesus who walks with us. Peter, the rock, still had a rocky time. Paul taught we have to mature,
we need to establish ourselves, to run a race, to persever. The churches in revelation are called to
victory, to overcome. We are perfect in the light of the revelation we have today, but tomorrow we
must walk in the new revelation and the new steps we need to take. We are called to the walk and
to the relationship, not to a free ticket for entry into paradise.

ok, it is time to put your money where your mouth is.. Tell the room what you believe.

You said.

The parable of the seed and the sower. A plant must take root, grow and produce fruit.

Will they lose salvation if they do not?

The parable of the vine. We are the branches but we can dry up and die.

So this means we can lose salvation?

The unfaithful servant. We can disobey, abuse our position and walk away.

So we can be disobedient and lose our salvation because of sin?

The prodigal son. We can walk away, take our gifts and deny our Lord.

So a son who is born of blood, can lose his sonship, even though he still has his fathers blood in his veins?? And lose salvation?

Did I get you right, or did I slander you. at which case, you are free to correct me.
[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]

 

[PeterJens]

I told the truth.
She said no one has any worth (basically no one can save themselves, because no one is worthy)
You told her she was wrong, then tried to say how people have all kinds of value.
Which proved my point. You refuse to admit or acknowledge that without God. No one can do one but of Good. there is no good with in us.. we can not save ourelves. or make ourselves holy. all we can do is trust God to do his work in us.
see. Unlike you. I did not just say your wrong, I proved it..

Now this is my point. You understood the term value, or worthy to mean you have done something
good.

God calls us valuable because we are lost sheep, we are the prodigal son, the person who
has gone astray.

But this reality has completely passed you by. So focused on justification your mind is
you do not know what I am talking about. That is the blindness, spiritual blindness you
have.

God loves us because we are His children lost in sin. We only have a hope because He
has shone a light into our hearts, and through this light we have seen He is our saviour.

So I do not know what you have proved other than you do not see.
But God bless you, God does really love you, but you are really lost in a maze of your
own making.

 

[Persuaded]

???? Who or what group of people are you talking about (that believe this)?

I have not met anyone or been to any church that teaches such a thing - and I have not believed in "once saved always saved" all my life.

Honestly - I have not heard the idea above one time - except from the anti-OSAS crowd as an accusation!

Well Chester, I am still confused.

Some people say they are saved by faith. They have faith that Jesus will save them. They believe that only Jesus has the power to save.
But then they say that salvation can be lost. The way I understand this is that Jesus has the power to save but does not have the power to keep a person saved, that in some way that person that He saved can overpower Jesus and lose his salvation.
I just want some one who believes that salvation can be lost to answer this simple question.
How can I trust, believe, have faith that Jesus has the power to save if He does not have the power to keep me saved.
I could have never had faith that Jesus would save me if I did not also have faith that He will keep me saved.