The Real Truth About Joseph Prince!

[PeterJens]

Get real, God has not changed or what sin is and how people need to deal with it.

If any group comes out with a new solution, a new style, it is a new faith.
And the problem with new faiths, they are not christian.

The Kingdom of heaven came to earth with Jesus and started in power at pentacost.
The blasphemy and heresy, lying and slander the HG camp participate in is the fruit
of their teaching and spirit. It is why I was the enemy just sharing biblical principles
and ideas, and things have not changed from their camp, though they will appear to
be friendly and we are the body of Christ, but I become a legalist, an anti-christ, a
trampler on the cross of Christ. With this language there is no place of compromise
here, the threat is clear.

They cannot even deal with a simple list of principles about coming to faith, it is
religion( ie false) just for creating a list. This is absurd behaviour.

 

[Grace777x70]

Repent ( change your mind about living your way - by your own self-righteousness and self-effort ) and believe the good news of the gospel of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.


Mark 1:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,

[SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."


Acts 20:20-21 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house,

[SUP]21 [/SUP] solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Stephen63]

Thats the thing, that both groups have the same goal but have different methods of attaining it. The problem is that one group disagrees with the other's methods and define them as "from their father the devil". They do not even acknowledge Grace777x70 as a fellow believer, or brother in Christ. To them he is the enemy and stands opposed to the Gospel.

1. there are NOT two methods
2. The rest is absoluty true.
You see, I don't have to play the "implying game" where people imply something terrible, then make all their claims of "I didn't say that", being very deceitful.
I dont variate my standards to please people, one moment being very sweet, & the next verbally abusing someone.

VVhat unity can be had, or what correction given to a brother or sister in Christ if said person isn't even considered part of the family of God? They have ostracized him.

I don't speak for "they". But I see what yer trying to do.

Both people desire to stop sinning, but go about it through different means. One may profess victory over sin completely while the other is honest about his process of sanctification. One accuses the other of living like a heathen and the other speaks of God's grace being sufficient. Not so that they may continue in sin, but that they may be assured that there is therefore now no condemnation in Christ, Jesus. This revelation being a catalyst to victorious living under God's grace rather than law.

Yep, as his story goes, one side is always bad while the other side is all angels

You have those with self-righteous intent opposing the humble who rely upon God's grace. You have those striving for what God has already given and those just willing to receive all that Christ purchased on their behalf. They are at odds, but at least one considers the other redeemable as opposed to condemned. It seems unity is hard when the other is dead set on defaming the other instead of correcting them in love. But as I said, there is no correction for a brother or sister in Christ when such a person isn't even considered to be a son by the Spirit of Adoption. They simply are ostracized and condemned.

And there you have it..... They are the pure driven snow while we are the worst examples of everything.

Do you know what makes it worse? It's sooo monotonous, always the same thing, every day a rerun.

The only exception is when they start losing, they go to being nice & sweet or they'll put on an act like they did yesterday of correcting one another, acting out as if they want the evil to stop. It's sad..... really it is.

 

[PeterJens]

Repent ( change your mind about living your way - by your own self-righteousness and self-effort ) and believe the good news of the gospel of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mark 1:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."


Acts 20:20-21 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

The above suggestion is projected meaning. No one ever has preached against righteousness
but against sin.

But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
Matt 9:13

To walk with God you need to recognise you are a sinner and repent of your sin.
Everyone does good things, but fails because of sin and their lack of a relationship with God.
Until you see this sin you will never see the Kingdom of God.

The point grace777 is trying to make is people who know Christ and walk in purity are
hypocrites and sinners, but cannot find the failure or the sin. But knowing Christ and
walking in purity is Gods aim in dying on the cross and knowing the Holy Spirit in
your heart.

His idea is legalism is why the gospel is corrupted and he is preaching the true gospel
of free forgiveness without victory in the believers lives. It is the inversion of our faith,
and so is a real enemy of Christ, and a new version of the faith.

And it only works scripturally if you redefine the meaning of the words because the words
speak the story they have always spoken. So they are simply lying.

 

[Grace777x70]

These "conclusions" are from your own construct in your mind. I have said it from the beginning I first met you on CC and others have told you the same things.

You take something someone says - you "construct" what you think they are saying and then make a whole new meaning out of it.

Then this thought seizes your mind until "it becomes real" to you in your own thinking. Then you proceed to "attack this self-perceived thought" as if it is real.


Some of us have told you the same thing over 50x times and yet you continue to say we are saying something else.

Some things you just can't understand like our sins are forgiven in Christ because of His blood but that's ok to agree to disagree too but you go and make it a completely different thing and accuse people that believe in forgiveness of sins as they want to sin all the time and that we don't repent ( change our mind towards all types of sinning ) which is complete nonsense.


You have called believers in grace every name that is possible from being satanic, to liars, to lovers of sin, heretics, demonic, deceivers...etc.

This is the reason some of us have to limit our interaction with you to as little as possible and unfortunately we need to implement Romans 16:17 because of your constant insulting of others and saying things that are not true but are just made up in your own mind.

When we see repentance and your behavior changes than we can have civil discussions with you. Until then we wish you the best.

God loves you dearly and unconditionally and He has great plans for you and your family.

 

[PeterJens]

These "conclusions" are from your own construct in your mind. I have said it from the beginning I first met you on CC and others have told you the same things.
You take something someone says - you "construct" what you think they are saying and then make a whole new meaning out of it.
Then this thought seizes your mind until "it becomes real" to you in your own thinking. Then you proceed to "attack this self-perceived thought" as if it is real.

Thankyou Grace777 for complementing me on understanding Gods word and intentions.
It is sad you no longer listen to Him but have created your own version of faith.

But what you might not be aware of when sin destroys peoples lives they leave the church.
So unless you can get real with people, your movement has no future.

When I spoke to muslims over the years it became apparent a group like IS would appear.
I stopped talking to the different groups, after the basic philosphies and ethics had been
understood.

So likewise with your group. You reap what you sow, and what you are sowing is lawlessness.
God bless, and I hope you enjoy the blessing of God before you actually meet Him.

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader,

Think a little about the subject under dispute.
A man murders another.

One says repentance is just the person agreeing it was a bad thing to do.

The other says they have to recognise the action they did was a sin worthy of death.
They need to commit themselves to never murder again.
In a christian sense they need to accept forgiveness through faith in Jesus and the cross
to obtain Gods forgiveness.

Now which version is christian and which is some weird amoral distortion?

Anyone with any moral sense knows what repentance is, but it speaks more about
evil people desiring to not get right with God and repent of sin but gain all the
benefits of a guilt free conscience without sorting anything out.

 

[PeterJens]

The believer in christ believes

Conviction of sin - I am a sinner and need to sort things out, liable to judgement -ref(1)
Repentance - I am a sinner who wishes to stop sinning - ref(2)(3)
Faith - I believe in Jesus and the cross I can find forgiveness - ref(4)
Confession - I publicly confess my sin and my faith - ref(4)
Cleansing - The blood washes me clean and empowers me to walk in righteousness -ref(5)
Obedience - Love springs forward in my heart as I start to learn to love all - ref(6)
Conscience - My conscience is a barometer of how I am doing - ref (7)
Purity - We walk in Holiness as the redeemed people of God - ref (8)
Communion - We become one in mind with Christ - ref(9)(10)(11)

(1) rom 3:23 (2) Ezk 18:21 (3) Acts 2:38 (4) Rom 10:9 (5) Heb 9:14 (6) 2 John 1:6
(7) 2 Cor 1:12 (8) 2 Cor 7:1 (9) Col 3:16 (10) 1 cor 6:17 (11) Phil 2:5

Look up the verses to check it out.

If this list conflicts with JP teaching guess who is not actually listening to Gods word.

 

[PeterJens]

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!
So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize
that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined
in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to

wear, so you can cover your shameful
nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Rev 3:13-18

 

[Angela53510]

In his book Destined to Reign Prince says this about repentance
"For all of you who feel that there should be more preaching on repentance, do you know what the word ‘repent' means in the first place? The word ‘repent' is the Greek word matanoeo, which according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, simply means ‘to change one's mind.' But because we have been influenced by our denominational background as well as our own religious upbringing, many of us have the impression that repentance is something that involves mourning and sorrow. However, that is not what the Word of God says. Repentance just means changing your mind."
Prince is not being honest with the Greek word metanoeo. Here are the Strong's definitions of the word
Greek Definition
g3341. μετάνοια metanoia; from 3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication, reversal (of (another's) decision): — repentance.AV (24) - repentance 24;a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done
Notice the word compunction in the definition. Here is the English definition for compunction:
Webster -Compunction: a feeling of guilt or regret ( chiefly US)
Full Definition
1 a : anxiety arising from awareness of guilt b : distress of mind over an anticipated action or result 2 : a twinge of misgiving : scruple synonyms see penitence, qualm com·punc·tious -shəs adjective
So, to repent does not just simply mean "to change ones mind." There is much more to it than that. The word that Prince used in his above statement makes this even more clear.
Repent: metanoeo: "to think differently or afterwards to reconsider (morally feel compunction) To change ones mind. To change ones mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of ones past sins."
As you can see, this definition means more than simply "to change ones mind.
How did Christ define the Gospel?

Luke 24:45-47 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Christ makes it clear that repentance and the forgiveness of sins is to be preached. In other words, we must preach Law and Gospel. No one can be saved without repentance. A gospel without repentance is no gospel at all.
Examples of repentance from Scripture

Matthew 11:20-24 Then he began to denounce the cities where most of his mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you."
Acts 26:19-20 "Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.
Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.
Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,
2 Corinthians 12:21 I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced.
Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Long For Truth: 4 Theological Flaws of Joseph Prince

Just to add to this, concerning the definition of Repentance!

1. Thayers - This is an obsolete Lexicon made obsolete before the turn of the 20th century, because of the discovery of Egyptian papyri, which proved many of the definitions in Thayers were incorrect or adequate. Therefore, the only people who use it are either ignorant of these facts, or they are cherry picking, and repentance is certainly one of the words that it not "adequately" translated.

In addition, Thayer disagreed with Biblical inerrancy, stating there were too many errors in the history and science of the Bible. In other words, Thayer was apostate! So people who use this Lexicon are using a book written by a man who disputes the Bible. Is this someone you want to trust to give you definitions for ANY words in the Bible??

Beginning in 1870, Thayer was a member of the American Bible Revision Committee and recording secretary of the New Testament company (working on the Revised Version). Thayer's chief works were his translation of Grimm's Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (1886; revised 1889) as A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, and his New Testament Bibliography (1890).[SUP][1][/SUP] Thayer spent 25 years working on his Lexicon, and made thousands of revisions from Grimm's Wilke's Clavis.[SUP][2]
[/SUP]
Rather unfortunately, Thayer's Lexicon became obsolete quickly as Gustav Adolf Deissmann's work with the Egyptian papyri was soon to revolutionize New Testament and Koine Greek Lexicography with the publication of his Bible Studies: Contributions Chiefly from Papyri and Inscriptions to the History of the Language, the Literature, and the Religion of Hellenistic Judaism and Primitive Christianitypublished in 1901 (2nd edition 1909) and also Light from the Ancient East: the New Testament Illustrated by Recently Discovered Texts of the Graeco-Roman World London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1910. These books and similar ones that followed helped confirm and sometimes correct inadequate definitions of many words in the Greek New Testament. With this new and valuable information for studying the Greek of the New Testament, Thayer's Lexicon became a victim of history, being published less than a decade before this papyri revolution.[SUP][3][/SUP]
In February 1891 Thayer published a lecture in which he expressed disagreement with the position of Biblical inerrancy, asserting that his own acceptance of various errors of history and science in the Bible did not materially detract from his belief in the overall soundness of Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Henry_Thayer

Anyone quoting definitions from Thayer, will be on notice about using a reference which is not only dated, but compiled without access to new and important discoveries, as well as the author being apostate.


Strong's is a much more Biblical concordance as seen above in Stephen's quote, but the gold standard of scholars is the lexicon, Bauer of BAGD, which also defines word in other early Christian Literature.

BAGD's definition of repentance is long, but I will quote the following adding the passage in English for those who do not read Greek:

"Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7 ESV

"λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι οὕτως χαρὰ ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ ἔσται ἐπὶ ἑνὶ ἁμαρτωλῷ μετανοοῦντι ἢ ἐπὶ ἐνενήκοντα ἐννέα δικαίοις οἵτινες οὐ χρείαν ἔχουσιν μετανοίας." Luke 15:7 Greek


"and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Luke 24:47 ESV

"καὶ κηρυχθῆναι ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι αὐτοῦ μετάνοιαν καὶ ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν εἰς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη— ἀρξάμενοι ἀπὸ Ἰερουσαλήμ·" Luke 24:47


These two passages were written by Luke a Greek. He desires to make it clear to his Greek readers, that repentance is intrinsically tied to the fact that the sinner (v 15:7) needs to repent of their sins. Verse 24:47 clarifies this that repentance must be preached that leads to the forgiveness of sins. Repentance is not merely a changing of the mind, but going from sin, to God! And repenting of sins, and following God.

2. According to my Rogers and Rogers, The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the New Testament, published in 1998, the word metanoia has the following definition.

metanoia - to repent; to change one's thinking; to turn about. The primary sense in Judaism is always a change in a person's attitude towards God, and in the conduct of life. It involves the confession of sin, a prayer of remorse, and forsaking all sin, all of which was a condition for Messianic redemption.

The early church was totally Jews! They understood what "changing one's mind" meant. And it wasn't chaining from going to the grocery store to the farmer's market instead. (So glad you posted it Bruce, it really helped me understand how Joseph Prince had influenced you to abandon the Biblical definition of "repentance.")

Repentance has always, and always will mean, turning from sin, towards God, and confession of sins, when we fail!

 

[PinkDiamond]

Just to add to this, concerning the definition of Repentance!

1. Thayers - This is an obsolete Lexicon made obsolete before the turn of the 20th century, because of the discovery of Egyptian papyri, which proved many of the definitions in Thayers were incorrect or adequate. Therefore, the only people who use it are either ignorant of these facts, or they are cherry picking, and repentance is certainly one of the words that it not "adequately" translated.

In addition, Thayer disagreed with Biblical inerrancy, stating there were too many errors in the history and science of the Bible. In other words, Thayer was apostate! So people who use this Lexicon are using a book written by a man who disputes the Bible. Is this someone you want to trust to give you definitions for ANY words in the Bible??




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Henry_Thayer

Anyone quoting definitions from Thayer, will be on notice about using a reference which is not only dated, but compiled without access to new and important discoveries, as well as the author being apostate.


Strong's is a much more Biblical concordance as seen above in Stephen's quote, but the gold standard of scholars is the lexicon, Bauer of BAGD, which also defines word in other early Christian Literature.

BAGD's definition of repentance is long, but I will quote the following adding the passage in English for those who do not read Greek:

"Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7 ESV

"λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι οὕτως χαρὰ ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ ἔσται ἐπὶ ἑνὶ ἁμαρτωλῷ μετανοοῦντι ἢ ἐπὶ ἐνενήκοντα ἐννέα δικαίοις οἵτινες οὐ χρείαν ἔχουσιν μετανοίας." Luke 15:7 Greek


"and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Luke 24:47 ESV

"καὶ κηρυχθῆναι ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι αὐτοῦ μετάνοιαν καὶ ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν εἰς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη— ἀρξάμενοι ἀπὸ Ἰερουσαλήμ·" Luke 24:47


These two passages were written by Luke a Greek. He desires to make it clear to his Greek readers, that repentance is intrinsically tied to the fact that the sinner (v 15:7) needs to repent of their sins. Verse 24:47 clarifies this that repentance must be preached that leads to the forgiveness of sins. Repentance is not merely a changing of the mind, but going from sin, to God! And repenting of sins, and following God.

2. According to my Rogers and Rogers, The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the New Testament, published in 1998, the word metanoia has the following definition.

metanoia - to repent; to change one's thinking; to turn about. The primary sense in Judaism is always a change in a person's attitude towards God, and in the conduct of life. It involves the confession of sin, a prayer of remorse, and forsaking all sin, all of which was a condition for Messianic redemption.

The early church was totally Jews! They understood what "changing one's mind" meant. And it wasn't chaining from going to the grocery store to the farmer's market instead. (So glad you posted it Bruce, it really helped me understand how Joseph Prince had influenced you to abandon the Biblical definition of "repentance.")

Repentance has always, and always will mean, turning from sin, towards God, and confession of sins, when we fail!

Thanks for posting all of that. I found that information really interesting.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have not abandoned the biblical definition of repentance - that is complete nonsense.

I have always said that proper repentance will have the fruit of stopping sinning. The Greek meaning still means "to change the mind" as I have shown in Vine's and in the Complete Biblical library Greek-English dictionary - and that means towards sinning and everything else concerning Christ and what He has done.

Repentance is granted from God as I have shown in scripture too. I have never said that the believer in Christ never stops sinning so your attempts to malign and twist what I am saying will not work.

I have said the complete opposite and said that as we grow in grace - it teaches us how to live godly in Christ Jesus and to walk righteously in this world. That we will live loving, godly lives , loving people and manifesting the life of Christ to a hurt and dying world. I have posted that at least 50x times on CC.

It was a nice try to make it look like I endorse sinning....my goodness what malice will do to people is amazing.

.

 

[Stephen63]

I have not abandoned the biblical definition of repentance - that is complete nonsense.

I have always said that proper repentance will have the fruit of stopping sinning. The Greek meaning still means "to change the mind" as I have shown in Vine's and in the Complete Biblical library Greek-English dictionary - and that means towards sinning and everything else concerning Christ and what He has done.

Repentance is granted from God as I have shown in scripture too. I have never said that the believer in Christ never stops sinning so your attempts to malign and twist what I am saying will not work.

I have said the complete opposite and said that as we grow in grace - it teaches us how to live godly in Christ Jesus and to walk righteously in this world. That we will live loving, godly lives , loving people and manifesting the life of Christ to a hurt and dying world. I have posted that at least 50x times on CC.

It was a nice try to make it look like I endorse sinning....my goodness what malice will do to people is amazing.

.

You can cry nonsense all you want..... your version of repentance is only a change of mind. Nooo remorse, no guilt, no shame. In other words, a change of mind, & nobody's sorry. You're obviously not sorry.

 

[Stephen63]

Joseph Prince EXPOSED | Don't Confess Your Sins??

[video=youtube;QoXRUxfxcuY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoXRUxfxcuY[/video]

 

[BenFTW]

You can cry nonsense all you want..... your version of repentance is only a change of mind. Nooo remorse, no guilt, no shame. In other words, a change of mind, & nobody's sorry. You're obviously not sorry.

Repenting is turning from sin (in the old testament), but the mistake is thinking that Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection didn't alter how one repents and gets victory over sin. People here keep quoting the OT to make a case of what repentance is but if you guys can't tell repentance in the OT never actually set people free from sin. Their sin confession, their repentance, and even the sacrifices it all was in vain as it never did remit their sins. It didn't take away their sins, only covered them.

So why are you guys using an old testament understanding of repentance as if it actually worked to set people free from sin? If old testament repentance worked then we wouldn't have needed to be made new creations and had the old man crucified with Christ. VVe wouldn't need to renew our minds. VVe wouldn't need the Holy Spirit to sanctify us. VVe would just need to repent like in the "good ole days." As a matter of fact, as far as victory over sin is concerned, Jesus wouldn't have had to suffer and die on the cross for us if old testament repentance could've set us free from sin.

So, getting to the root of this we are speaking of walking in victory over sin. Any of you arguing for an old testament mindset of repentance and sin confession for forgiveness' sake have to make the case that it actually worked to set people free from sin. The dilemma, however, is that if you do, you make void the cross. You make void being made alive in Christ. You make void the blood of the lamb and being under grace in so far as victory over sin is concerned.

If repentance is simply a turning away from sin and thats all that is required to walk in victory (basing your definition of repentance off of an old covenant mindset) then, ultimately, the cross didn't change anything. Jesus' sacrifice pointless, in respect to the things it actually has accomplished but is denied through a traditional understanding of repentance and sin confession. Specifically, victory over sin and reconciliation to God. Things your understanding of scripture deny as a gift and you feel you must attain through some act of contrition.

 

[Angela53510]

Repenting is turning from sin (in the old testament), but the mistake is thinking that Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection didn't alter how one repents and gets victory over sin. People here keep quoting the OT to make a case of what repentance is but if you guys can't tell repentance in the OT never actually set people free from sin. Their sin confession, their repentance, and even the sacrifices it all was in vain as it never did remit their sins. It didn't take away their sins, only covered them.

So why are you guys using an old testament understanding of repentance as if it actually worked to set people free from sin? If old testament repentance worked then we wouldn't have needed to be made new creations and had the old man crucified with Christ. VVe wouldn't need to renew our minds. VVe wouldn't need the Holy Spirit to sanctify us. VVe would just need to repent like in the "good ole days." As a matter of fact, as far as victory over sin is concerned, Jesus wouldn't have had to suffer and die on the cross for us if old testament repentance could've set us free from sin.

So, getting to the root of this we are speaking of walking in victory over sin. Any of you arguing for an old testament mindset of repentance and sin confession for forgiveness' sake have to make the case that it actually worked to set people free from sin. The dilemma, however, is that if you do, you make void the cross. You make void being made alive in Christ. You make void the blood of the lamb and being under grace in so far as victory over sin is concerned.

If repentance is simply a turning away from sin and thats all that is required to walk in victory (basing your definition of repentance off of an old covenant mindset) then, ultimately, the cross didn't change anything. Jesus' sacrifice pointless, in respect to the things it actually has accomplished but is denied through a traditional understanding of repentance and sin confession. Specifically, victory over sin and reconciliation to God. Things your understanding of scripture deny as a gift and you feel you must attain through some act of contrition.

Woe, Ben! I used the definition of METANOIA! Which is both Greek and New Testament. I didn't get into the Hebrew, words, like Shub, etc.

You are another one who is out of touch with what the Bible says, and brainwashed by Joseph Prince and his ilk, about what the truth of the gospel is.

What you void is the entire concepts of soteriology! You know, how we are saved! Because yes, we are made new creatures in Christ! By the Holy Spirit! I and others like me have never ever said that we can save ourselves! As for contrition, an interesting Old Testament concept.

See David in Psalm 51:17 "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise."

But reading the whole Psalm certainly there are many things we can learn from King David, a man after God's own heart! Because there is no real dividing line between God's people in the OT and God's people in the NT and God's people down through the ages. We all believe by grace through faith. Such a bad reading of the OT that the law saved them. It did not, it was the grace of God that saved people then as now! Also see Hebrews 11, because you have seem to forgotten that that "faith" chapter was completely about OT saints!

"What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.5 And to the one who does not work but believes in[a] him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness," Romans 4:1-5


1. Justification - Romans 5:1, 2 Cor. 5:17 This is when we are positionally justified by Christ as we repent of our sins, and turn to Christ. The Holy Spirit calls us, and we become the Lord's.


2. Sanctification Romans 6:16-20, Hebrews 10:14; Col 1:9-11 This is the process of being obedient, and the Holy Spirit transforming us. It is a journey. One in which we learn obedience, the joy of being slaves of righteousness, and how to walk in a manner worthy and pleasing to the Lord. Nope, we are not perfect, despite your Word Faith lies!

"Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification." Romans 6:16-20

"For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:14

"And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,10so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;11 being strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy;" Col 1:9-11



3. Glorification - 1 John 3:2; 1 Cor. 13:12. This is when we see Jesus face to face and we finally are perfect. I can hardly wait for that glorious day!

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appearswe shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." 1 Cor. 13:12


By the way, Ben, it would really do your cause good if you actually quoted the Bible, maybe looked in some lexicons or reputable concordances. Right now, I just see Joseph Prince's and others like him being spouted in your posts. And not an original word in what you and these other Word Faith people are posting!

 

[mikeys4grace]

I won't re-post the vid from post#394. Having it once is enough.
And don't even feel a need to post my own personal judgements
of JPrince' teaching, so anyone is free to judge where they think
my opinion of him is.

For this post, I simply want to comment on that video, and in my opinion,
it is a very dishonest mix-match of clips , spliced together to make a rather crude 'hit-piece' against the man.
He is making a point about how some churches have differing views on the whole 'sin, confess, repent' cycle, in two different clips he's shown basically saying the same thing, and he's seen saying 'no, no, no, ...' when the clip is cut short, and another one shows him saying that he never claimed that people shouldn't confess their sins, then the video goes back to the clip of him saying 'no, no, no' and the video's editor puts words on the screen calling him a liar and a false prophet, along with ominous hollywood horror music and more fancy graphics and special fx like slo-mo and overlay stills and color fading.

But there's no evidence on THIS vid that he ever said people shouldn't confess sins, ... only implications and accusations by the video editor, and the viewer is expected to believe it.

This is shameless manipulation and dishonesty, imo, and seems to be a very sad attempt to try to destroy this man's ministry or reputation.

 

[mikeys4grace]

Meanwhile, I thank the Lord that we're saved by God's grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross and resurrection, and to that I say thank you, Jesus, praise the Lord, Hallelujah, Amen and Amen!

 

[RobbyEarl]

Joseph Prince is a if it feels good do it (seeker sensitive) preacher but thank God the Gospel is preached

 

[PeterJens]

I have not abandoned the biblical definition of repentance - that is complete nonsense.

The deception here is simple. If JP is the theological source of teaching, which this thread is about
and he holds to a heretical view on repentance, the exact biblical definition is important, if not
the core of our faith.

It is the reason Jesus came to die on the cross.

I remember a thread upon which HG believers talked about repenting of one type of food to
eat another. It is pure slander and lying to suggest this superficial view of repentance is not
a core ethic of HG approach.

To then suggest that sincere christians who hold Jesus as their Lord are slandering and full
of hate, shows the total lostness of the particular individual concerned.

There is no greater issue in mankind than the lack of knowing God and His conditions for
re-establishing communion.

The reason why this argument is so hard, and the sin of man so deep, is because even when God
lays it out through history, through Jesus and apostles, through the testimony of scholars, believers
still people will lie and distort it, because this has always been about Kingdoms and communion, and
those who walk in the light and those who do not.