Why is it assumed by many here that Grace Folk live in blatant, unrepentant sin?

[eternally-gratefull]

Famous verse to use for "not really saved." Please show us that John was talking about salvation.

He was talking about TRUTH. Not salvation. John taught doctrine, and those believers who want to count on their good works, sorrow for their sins, and doing something for the Lord for their salvation AFTER they are saved...............are not of US.

They will LEAVE a doctrinal church.

Hey bro, I disagree,

1. John was talking salvation. "they were never a part of us," Who is us? The church, One must be saved to be a part of the church, If one was never a part of the church, they were never saved.
2. John was speaking of AntiChrists, Or people wj are against Christ, Or reject Christ . even though at one time, they considered themselves to be a part of the church.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 John 2:19.

And Angela, we can use this verse in real time with you and me.

Your Pastor would say gr8grace left us, because he was not really of us. And my pastor would say the same about you.

But I know you are saved, and I KNOW I am. But I would leave your church and you would leave mine.

John was teaching doctrine, and he had saved people leaving his churches.

No. John had impostors leaving his church, (If they had been of us they never would have left. But they left to expose the truth, they were never of us)

If I leave angelas church to go to another church, then yes John does not fit.

If I leave angelas church and say I gave God the finger, and want nothing to do with him anymore, I do not believe in him, Then John is talking to, or about me.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I am still trying to wrap my head around this. Some WOF teachers have the gospel and Grace FIGURED out!!!!!?????? that is unheard of until very recently.

Eternal security by A WOF teacher? NEVER. But some are beginning to teach it.

Im tossing out the signs and wonders and prosperity they teach. But some are dead on on grace and eternal security. Go figure. I am still a little cynical and skeptical.

There is RIDICULOUS WoF, with absolutely NO biblical foundation. This is just a scheme to make money.

Then, there is what you and I would still see as WoF, but I have seen that it...kind of isn't. I think it is needed by some. They need to be led, not straight into the land or they might turn back if they faced war immediately. He gives them what they can bear. God isn't going to force feed them what they aren't ready to bear yet. Since they can't understand suffering or pain or abuse by others being tools God uses to shape us and make us ready to bear the heavy weight of His glory, and tools that He uses to grow the virtues He wants in us, and tools He uses to bring us into the struggle, He doesn't touch them in any but the lightest and gentlest ways, and doesn't bring them to the struggle yet.

I think it might do them more harm than good to argue with them about leanness and austerities and humiliations and sufferings. When He sees that He has prepared them, He will bring them to them, and through them, to see that He always gives bread and not a stone.

I know some will not agree with me, but I think they would be forgetting that, even with themselves, the route was not direct and sudden into austerities and straightenings and humiliations.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not in the states. WOF was exclusively loss of salvation. Just like loss of faith for all healing,tongues and other miracles......loss of faith resulted in loss of salvation also. Eternal security was unheard of until very recently in their doctrines. In the USA. In fact, I have NEVER heard it until on this very forum.

Maybe I should listen to Joseph Prince a little more. I haven't listened enough if he is saying the lordship salvation version of perseverance of saints or eternal security and preservation by the Lord Jesus Christ.

I did hear a bit about adultery, and "not really saved." I better listen a little closer.

The only WOF like teacher I ever sat under was a baptist teacher when I was a young teenager, And yes, He believed our salvation was secure in Christ. He would just use the excuse (you do not have faith) for people who did not take God up on his gifts.. (note, he did not last long in our church)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternal security / preservation of the Saints /OSAS was a calvinist doctrine first defined by John Calvin in france in the 1500ds .. His five point Tulip doctrines included the OSAS docrtine..

Tulip teachings of Calvinism

T,U,L,I,P

"T" in "TULIP" stands for "Total Hereditary Depravity."

"Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not - indeed he cannot - choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ - it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God."


"U" in "TULIP" stands for "Unconditional Election" (Predestination).

"God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response of obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selects. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation."


"L" in "TULIP" stands for "Limited Atonement."

"Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ's redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation."


"I" in "TULIP" stands for "Irresistible Grace."

"In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is he dependant upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended."


"P" in "TULIP" stands for "Perseverance of the Saints." ( This is OSAS )

All who are chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of the almighty God and thus preserved to the end."


But even in Calvinism i find some people who are 3 point Calvinists or 4 point Calvinists or the 100% 5 point Calvinist types..

I believer eternal security is a Jesus Christ Doctrine first introduced in the 1st Century AD, and found in a book called the "bible" in his words, written in the gospels. Most notably by the apostle John.

John 3, Eternal life
John 4, Rivers of living water springing up to eternal life (never thirst)
John 6, "living food which endures forever) Never Hunger, Never thirst, Live forever, Never die Has eternal life, WIll be risen on the last day (vs delivered to)

Just a few examples.

 

[Adstar]

Umm, not at all! Not all who believe in Eternal security is Calvinist...

God bless

I never said that..

I said all 5 point Calvinists believe in OSAS..

 

[Grace777x70]

The WOF doctrine has no connection with the Salvation by Grace doctrine... Why bring it up..

I agree...when I listened to the supposed WOF teachings back in the late 80's there was no talk of the grace of God other then to give it lip service. There was no teaching on grace that I ever saw. Lot's of condemnation given though.

 

[Adstar]

I believer eternal security is a Jesus Christ Doctrine first introduced in the 1st Century AD, and found in a book called the "bible" in his words, written in the gospels. Most notably by the apostle John.

I don't.. I believe people can reject the salvation of Jesus after they had once believed in the salvation of Jesus..

2 Peter 2 KJV
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



Peter Said It is happened unto them... After they had escaped the the knowledge of the LORD and Savior Jesus Christ.. Peter would never have written this passage if OSAS was true .. He was talking about people who have once been saved who turned away..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't.. I believe people can reject the salvation of Jesus after they had once believed in the salvation of Jesus..

2 Peter 2 KJV
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



Peter Said It is happened unto them... After they had escaped the the knowledge of the LORD and Savior Jesus Christ.. Peter would never have written this passage if OSAS was true .. He was talking about people who have once been saved who turned away..

um Peter said a dog returned to his vomit, He was a dog. He never became a new creation. He did not return to being a dog (lose salvation and once again become lost, dead to Christ needing to be born again) he was already a dog. Who tried to act like a new creature (child of God.) but could not continue the acting, Why? A Dog returns to his vomit, why? A dog is a dog.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I never said that..

I said all 5 point Calvinists believe in OSAS..

That does not mean all people who believe in eternal security are Calvinist. That is putting people into groups. and what has lead to so much understanding between people..

ie, You teach osas, Thus you are a calvanist, This this is what you believe.

That is a wrong assumption, and causes misunderstanding for those who do not believe that way,, And causes heated debates when the one making the claim "Your a calvanist" will not listen or concede he may be wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't.. I believe people can reject the salvation of Jesus after they had once believed in the salvation of Jesus..

2 Peter 2 KJV
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



Peter Said It is happened unto them... After they had escaped the the knowledge of the LORD and Savior Jesus Christ.. Peter would never have written this passage if OSAS was true .. He was talking about people who have once been saved who turned away..

By the way, WHy did you not respond to all the promises I quoted that Jesus made in John 3, 4 and 6?

 

[Angela53510]

You just affirmed that being a new creation is great but we still sin!
what is your understanding of the new creation? If you still see the new creation as those who "sin"; then you have not understood the newness of the new creation.

The new creation are beings that never pre-existed! We were made new creation in the resurrection of Christ from the dead, After destroying the old man(Adam) and his fallen state! The second and last Adam Christ, at His Resurrection, brought in a new creation of God; a new world all together! That's why the word says all things have become new! And the old is off course gone!!!

I really don't care how much of what my mind may cause my body to do or not do! I do not go by what happens in my body(walking by sight)! i go by what God says He has made me in Christ(walking by faith)!


All i care to do at this stage in my christian walk is, to lay hold of what God says i am in Christ! i will never confess any thing else than this! This is the true spiritual battle which is, the good fight of faith!!

As I have said so many times, that initial and amazing change that God does, when we are saved is called "justification." It means positionally, we are right with God. But the journey does not end there, that is only the starting point!

If you stay stuck in justification, you miss all the wonderful things God has in store for you in the sancification stage, which is when we are refined, taught, and transformed by the Holy Spirit. It also means you are in denial about your life. Because if you are made perfect at justification, then what DO you do with the sin in your life?

Or don't tell me you never sin? I will thoroughly refute the sinless perfection doctrine, if you need me to. People twist scriptures to say we are already perfect. Then why even bother to live? Why doesn't Jesus just take us home to be with him?

Well, of course we have work to do for God. And we are all part of the body of Christ, and each thing we do is important to God and the rest of the "church." But the other reason is, God gives us the opportunity to grow in character and closer to him. He wants us to grow up or mature. Teleos is the word in Greek - it means complete, mature or perfect. But too many translations have this mixed up. When we talk about God as teleos, well, he is definitely perfect. But we are not. We "are being perfected" as Hebrews 10:14 says. That is the passive tense, and it is something God is working on in our lives by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Some people get really stuck in this "now that I am saved I must be perfect because of 2 Cor. 5:17" thing! I know I was, and my husband for much longer. There is such a sense of judgement and condemnation, when the church tells you that you are supposed to be perfect and sinless, and the reality is that you are not.

It causes people to fall away from God in disgust and shame at themselves. I know this happened to my husband. He strongly believed in Jesus and his death on the cross atoning for our sins, but he no longer believed in himself. We've been sitting under good preaching now for 5 or 6 years, and he is back reading his Bible. He is letting go of the false belief that he needs to be perfect, and instead praising God that He is perfect, and He is doing a work his the heart and life!

As for confessing something, and it will come to pass, are you God? I know if God says something, he will do it. Well, unless the sinner/s are so deep in sin he repents of his promise! Yes, the OT is valid, we are to beware. Again, I hate to be strong, but when you confess what you "are in Christ" positionally, then you are quite simply living a lie, and in denial of the entire content of Scripture. As I usually say at this point, please read the Bible by yourself, over and over. You will come up with a very different theology of soteriology, when you walk away from these false teachers and heretics.

This "I am saved therefore I am sinless" false doctrine can cause them to retreat into gnostic lies, like I talked about in another post. That means denying you have a body, or that by pretending you are totally separate from your body, because your spirit is perfected you are deying the truth of liveing in a fallen and as yet unredeemed world. There is no such divide in the Bible in our lifetimes. As long as we are in these bodies, we are tempted. God helps us overcome our failiing, one step at a time. Sometimes this is instaneous with justification, like when God totally and instantly delivered me from alcohol addiction, 36 years ago. Sometimes, it is a process, with God teaching us, so when we finally do get free of the sin, we can support and encourage others caught in sin, not condemning and saying something is wrong if they are not sin free!

So we are made new in our spirit when we are justified by God. Hallelujah! I could not agree more!

God then works on our mind, soul and body in connection with his Spirit to teach us to obey Him. Because in essence, sin is not obeying God - all the things God has laid out in the Bible for our good, and every time the Holy Spirit nudges us to do something, and we obey that nudging. Because God has made it clear that his sheep hear his voice.

"But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice." John 10:2-4

Knowing God, having him working in your life, walking with him, is all about relationship! Too many people in this forum are all about some internet preacher, or bad theology. Instead of really seeking God, confessing your sins, (which separates you temporarily from God!) and getting to know God.

If you think do not sin, then you fall into the antinomian trap! Because if you are not confessing sin, then you are not even concerned about what God is thinking or telling you. God does have a better way for us to live. God never wants us to disobey him, let alone for a million years,, and somehow think God is ok with that.

I'm not saying someone who is antinomian is not saved, but they have missed an essential part of the gospel, and the reality of living in this fallen world. We do sin, but God is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Not written to gnositics as some people claim, partly because they did not exist till years after John wrote his epistles. And written to Christians, because all of 1, 2, 3 John are written to Christians. And it is not just 1 John 1:9, but the rest of that epistle that addresses antinomianism, to say nothing of providing a key passage about glorification.


"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked." 1 John 2:1-6

Notice it says we sin, but also, that we NEED to keep God's commands, especially love! So are you totally loving all the time? I would love to say I am, but I simply am not. I struggle, and I confess that even in this thread, I was not loving. God nudged me, and I disobeyed. I am repenting, and praying for the Holy Spirit to continue to make changes in my heart and life, so I will have his love in me, towards people 24/7. I'm not embarrassed to confess my sins, in public. I am disappointed in myself, and I am simply not going to make excuses, like I used to do for not obeying the fundamental tenets Jesus himself reiterated over and over in the Bible!

So glorification? Well, that is my hope, of course! That is when we will be perfect. Why? Because these frail and sinful bodies will be made perfect! That is the day of judgement. I am totally confident that not only will Jesus return, but that I am his, and he is mine, and he will give me a glorified and perfect body to complete the work he started back in May 1980, when he justified me.

"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Phil. 1:6

When I read that verse, the first year I was saved, the Holy Spirit stopped me and made me memorize it righ then and there! It kept me through all those hard times, when I was told if I sinned, I wasn't saved. Or that God had condemned me for my failure to obey the "law" however that was defined. Because I didn't read that verse in a book, nor hear it from the pulpit, and of course, there was no internet then, lucky me! Then, when I let go of those false beliefs that we are sinless, when we are not, God gave me two other vital verses concerning glorification.

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." 1 Cor. 3:12

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

See, we are still children in Christ. We are maturing, some people might be close to maturity, but someone who is truly close to God, will hear that conviction of the Holy Spirit, and repent of their sins, before people or God. But if you don't believe you sin, how can you hear God saying "My beloved this is sin, and I'll show you another way to work on this." "Or, another hurt that caused this pain resulting in sin, that I am going to heal in your heart." I do love and need that closeness to God, and keeping my accounts short with him. How sad to think you do not sin, and cut yourself off from the input of the Holy Spirit who uses all things to transform us closer into the image of Christ.


"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Romans 12:2

"And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord,[a]are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.[b] For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:18

Notice in these two verses that "are be/being transformed" are in the present imperative passive in Greek. This means that that we are in fact COMMANDED to obey God. No antinomianism allowed! It is also the theological passive, meaning "let yourselves be transformed by God."

Why would we need to obey God, to continue to be transformed, if we were already perfect?? That is a terrible heresy and too great a burden to great to bear! Our hope in the gospel, is not that we were made perfect to live in a fallen world, but rather, by obeying and cooperating with the Holy Spirit, God is changing and transforming us. Not works, but the amazing grace of God!

If you don't believe me, then believe Paul, God's apostle to the Gentiles who sat at the feet of Jesus for 3 years in the desert, learning that you cannot please God by obeying the law, and that there is no perfection in this life, but we certainly can be changed when we obey God - as in the total leading of the Holy Spirit by what he has already laid out in his Word.

"Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." Phil. 3:3-4

While God does the saving and changing, we do have a part to play, as Paul so clearly lays out. We will not grow, if we do not press on to the high calling in Christ. Praising God all day, can be a stench in God's nostrils, if we are living in disobedience to him. And the way we know God's expectations for our lives is knowing the Bible, and letting the Holy Spirit teach us, without condemnation, but with the greatest possible love of all!

Sorry, another impossibly long post! I really need to get a blog and just publish links! Except then I would not be specifically answering people, just fulfilling my own needs!

 

[followjesus]

Answer and discuss, please.

Thanks!



-JGIG

im not sure thats true, i think when a group champions grace, and omits Jesus words about the gospel. when grace causes folks to turn against the truth, it seems as if somethings a miss, because its suppose to teach people to Love God and His ways

 

[Magenta]

Your posts here have been so incredibly full of Truth and so very moving
I almost cried at the sheer beauty of them, Angela. Much love to you for
all you do and the time you take even in your physical pain to make clear
the Scriptures. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for putting it all
into such eloquent words backed solidly by the Word of God. Amen and amen!

 

[PeterJens]

Sorry, another impossibly long post! I really need to get a blog and just publish links! Except then I would not be specifically answering people, just fulfilling my own needs!

Angela, Putting these texts into a blog means they will not be lost in these threads.
The truths addressed here need more availability, and many would benefit from
greater exposure to them.

The blessing of the internet is real touchstones can now be given to a massive audience
and you do not have to repeat the same insights, which is often the failure of certain
contributors. I would certainly benefit from reading your different takes on these issues,
and save effort to not need repeat them,

God bless,

Peter

 

[PeterJens]

As I have said so many times, that initial and amazing change that God does, when we are saved is called "justification." It means positionally, we are right with God. But the journey does not end there, that is only the starting point!....

Fantastic.

Your testimony reminds me of pilgrims progress.
In the age we live in this depth is often missing from churches, because there
is simply not enough time in sermons to cover the ground.

But in Christs body, we need to take real responsibility to share and help others.
The dilemma of transformation between sinner and redeemed mature member of
the Kingdom of heaven takes real time and dedication.

The challenge of the age is a denial of this, and to reward the desire for instant
resolution with wealth and health rewards from God, rather than the brutal road
of eternity.

All aspects of our walk, it is hard for all of us to expose our real selves and walk
in the light, with others. But this is what Jesus has called us to do.

So Amen sister, and thankyou for sharing and continue to bless us,

Peter

 

[valiant]

I don't.. I believe people can reject the salvation of Jesus after they had once believed in the salvation of Jesus..

2 Peter 2 KJV
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



Peter Said It is happened unto them... After they had escaped the the knowledge of the LORD and Savior Jesus Christ.. Peter would never have written this passage if OSAS was true .. He was talking about people who have once been saved who turned away..

pity for you it did not say BELIEVED. They knew but had not truly believed (john 2.23-25). So God's eternal security is right after all

they turned back to what they ARE.

 

[followjesus]

truthfully many of the times grace folk feel condemned and accused, attacked ect...ect... it is because they have been presented with scripture clearly teaching them that there is much to do, its not about resting in Jesus finished work, its about repentance, righteousness, peace, joy in the spirit, brotherly Love that requires actions, not nice words, Love is about feding the huingry, clothing the poor, giving from our much to the much needs of the poor, to look after one another, to be the good samaritan as Jesus taught us to go beyond in helping each other, as johns epitst;es teach " love is action and truth" what if Jesus had just said " i love you all, i would die for you...but then never shed His blood" what if Jesus loved us, like we love Him? we know what Love is because He acted and layed down His life for us, and laso taught us to lay down our lives fopr each oither, the gospel is not about self, "my own salvation all by grace thanks lord" when a person recieves Jesus, they then are commanded to go share Jesus with the world, through actions, right living, and good words in accordance with His gospel. we who are saved, have much demand upon us first for repentance , then for brotherly Love, which is what Jesus taught in His ministry, Love AS I HAVE LOVED you. scriptures that are true, is what makes all by grace people feel condemned in my own opinion scriptures like

matthew 7:21-27“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”


2 corinthians 5:10 " For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."


galatians 5:19-21 "The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."


galatians 6:7-9 "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

matthew 25:31-46....v41 " Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


romans 2:6-8 "God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger."


all of the truth that shows us, we must repent and follow the Lords word about how to act and live, thats what its all about, learning the truth that God is good, He doesnt give bad advice, will never lead us astray, His ways are perfect, better than our own, were supposed to learn His ways, and practice them because we actually do believe He is good and arent in the deception caused in eden that Gods command is against us, Gods word is life

 

[Stephen63]

pity for you it did not say BELIEVED. They knew but had not truly believed (john 2.23-25). So God's eternal security is right after all

they turned back to what they ARE.

There's no need to "turn back" if they never left.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There's no need to "turn back" if they never left.

true,

But they started to walk toward the gate which could make them free. they just never made it, and turned back to what the way they were going to begin with..

sort of like a detour.. that got them no where.