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Zeek the verse doesn't say judgement will come to all the world first in either translation. Both say it comes to the Jew first and then to the Greek which are the Gentiles. The tribulation isn't limited to the Greeks only , the Greeks represent the whole Gentile world.
I'm trying to follow you here Zeek. What judgement came upon the Greeks in AD 67-73?
Don't follow me, follow Paul.
To follow Paul you need the correct translation.
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But since you ask.
Judaism prior to circa 325BC was not a religion that evangelized. After Alexander and the Levitical priests struck a compromise, Hellenistic Judaism was born, which actively went about prozelytizing. That is why we read of prozelytes in the NT. That is also why the OT was translated into Greek in Alexandria, so that (Hellenistic) Judaism could recruit non-Jews.
So when Paul talks about Greeks, he means prozelytes.
To follow Paul you need the correct translation.
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But since you ask.
Judaism prior to circa 325BC was not a religion that evangelized. After Alexander and the Levitical priests struck a compromise, Hellenistic Judaism was born, which actively went about prozelytizing. That is why we read of prozelytes in the NT. That is also why the OT was translated into Greek in Alexandria, so that (Hellenistic) Judaism could recruit non-Jews.
So when Paul talks about Greeks, he means prozelytes.
That's news to me lol. Is that true of Greeks in all places in the bible, are all references to "Greeks" in the bible talking about proselytes?
B
BeyondET
Guest
Greek means Greek, but like everything else, it has a contextual meaning.
German means German, but if I talk about Germans and Italians in WW2, you automatically understand that I am now referring to Axis Forces.
Your assumption is wrong. Circular reasoning is assuming as proven what you are trying to prove. In the example you use here, you are assuming that inerrancy proves inspiration. While it's less direct, it is still a circular argument. Logical syllogisms must be based on evidence, not on unproven assertions such as "the KJV is inerrant". I would encourage you to read up on logical fallacies; here is a link:
Logical Fallacies
Of course you can use logic and common sense; I expect as much. However, I have challenged you to provide objective evidence.
L
LaurenTM
Guest
KING JAMES ONLYISM
King James Only-ism is an aberrant teaching that considers the King James Version – specifically the ‘1611 Authorized Version’ – to be the only legitimate English-language Bibleversion.
Some KJV-onlyists go so far as to insist that people who do not use the King James Version (or even a specific edition of the King James Version) are not saved. In doing so they believe and teach a heresy — one that violates the Biblical doctrine of salvation by adding conditions not taught in Scripture. [See: Essential doctrines of the Christian faith] Those KJV-Onlyists who teach this in so doing place themselves outside the boundaries of the Christian faith, and should be considered heretics.
Many in the King James Only movement insist that there are conspiracies behind new Bible translations, meant to take away, diminish or introduce various doctrines.
Daniel B. Wallace, Executive Director for the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts, responds:
King James Only-ism is an aberrant teaching that considers the King James Version – specifically the ‘1611 Authorized Version’ – to be the only legitimate English-language Bibleversion.
Some KJV-onlyists go so far as to insist that people who do not use the King James Version (or even a specific edition of the King James Version) are not saved. In doing so they believe and teach a heresy — one that violates the Biblical doctrine of salvation by adding conditions not taught in Scripture. [See: Essential doctrines of the Christian faith] Those KJV-Onlyists who teach this in so doing place themselves outside the boundaries of the Christian faith, and should be considered heretics.
Many in the King James Only movement insist that there are conspiracies behind new Bible translations, meant to take away, diminish or introduce various doctrines.
Daniel B. Wallace, Executive Director for the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts, responds:
So, is there a conspiracy today? My answer may surprise the reader: yes, I believe there is. But the conspiracy has not produced these modern translations. Rather, I believe that there is a conspiracy to cause division among believers, to deflect our focus from the gospel to petty issues, to elevate an anti-intellectual spirit that does not honor the mind which God has created, and to uphold as the only Holy Bible a translation that, as lucid as it was in its day, four hundred years later makes the gospel seem antiquated and difficult to understand.2 It takes little thought to see who is behind such a conspiracy.
– Source: Daniel B. Wallace [1] , The Conspiracy Behind the New Bible Translations
– Source: Daniel B. Wallace [1] , The Conspiracy Behind the New Bible Translations
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Many have been pointed out in several different long, drawn out threads in the recent past.... do a search.
The problem is that when an error, or misuse of a word is pointed out, the KJVO crowd either ignores it, or brushes it off as an insignificant typo or some such.
Then they turn right around and condemn another translation for the same type of "error"....
The point is, there is no absolutely error or discrepancy-free translation of the word. There are several that are very good, like the KJV, NASB, NRSV, etc, that are more "word for word" translations. The KJV is the most difficult to understand for 21st century English speaking folks. It doesn't mean it's bad, just difficult to understand.
Your insistence on the "complete, pure, inerrant" word of God is chasing after the wind.... unless you can read and converse in Koine greek, and have copies of the oldest manuscripts, there is always a chance that a word has been substituted for another word for clarification, or to modernize the translation.
This is why it is good to compare translations... INCLUDING the KJV, if you have problems understanding a passage.
The newer translations were all done the same way that the KJV was done, by MEN, who (I assume) prayerfully studied the best known texts at that time, and translated them in the common vernacular of their day, with the intent of giving the world their best effort at an accurate translation of the words of God.
That is what we have as the words of God.... translated by men, guided by the Spirit...
B
BeyondET
Guest
KING JAMES ONLYISM
King James Only-ism is an aberrant teaching that considers the King James Version – specifically the ‘1611 Authorized Version’ – to be the only legitimate English-language Bibleversion.
Some KJV-onlyists go so far as to insist that people who do not use the King James Version (or even a specific edition of the King James Version) are not saved. In doing so they believe and teach a heresy — one that violates the Biblical doctrine of salvation by adding conditions not taught in Scripture. [See: Essential doctrines of the Christian faith] Those KJV-Onlyists who teach this in so doing place themselves outside the boundaries of the Christian faith, and should be considered heretics.
Many in the King James Only movement insist that there are conspiracies behind new Bible translations, meant to take away, diminish or introduce various doctrines.
Daniel B. Wallace, Executive Director for the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts, responds:So, is there a conspiracy today? My answer may surprise the reader: yes, I believe there is. But the conspiracy has not produced these modern translations. Rather, I believe that there is a conspiracy to cause division among believers, to deflect our focus from the gospel to petty issues, to elevate an anti-intellectual spirit that does not honor the mind which God has created, and to uphold as the only Holy Bible a translation that, as lucid as it was in its day, four hundred years later makes the gospel seem antiquated and difficult to understand.2 It takes little thought to see who is behind such a conspiracy.
– Source: Daniel B. Wallace [1] , The Conspiracy Behind the New Bible Translations
Good read for sure, though Mr. Wallace doesn't have all the facts correct about revisions and major English translations.
B
BeyondET
Guest
Good post, just to clarify on what you assume that the MEN prayerfully studied the best known text at that time is incorrect.
They didn't PRAY they where instructed BY King James to do so that would limit the Puritan influence and further more the King gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology of the Church of England. Certain Greek and Hewbrew words were to be translated in a manner that reflected the traditional usage of the church. A example in old ecclesiastical words such as the word "church" were to be retained and not to be translated as "congregation". The new translation would reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and traditional beliefs about ordained clergy.
James instructions included several requirements that kept the new translation familiar to its listeners and readers. The text of the Bishops' bible would serve as the primary guide for the translators, and the familiar proper names of the biblical characters would all be retained. If the bishops' Bible was deemed problematic in any situation, the translators were permitted to consult other translations from a pre-approved list; the tynadale bible, the Coverdale Bible, Matthew's Bible, the Great Bible, and the Geneva Bible. In addition, later scholars have detected an influence on the Authorized Version from the translations of Taverner's Bible and the New Testament of the Douay-Rheims Bible. It is for this reason that the flyleaf of most printings of the Authorized Version observes that the text had been translated out of the orginal tongues.
KING JAMES ONLYISM
King James Only-ism is an aberrant teaching that considers the King James Version – specifically the ‘1611 Authorized Version’ – to be the only legitimate English-language Bibleversion.
Some KJV-onlyists go so far as to insist that people who do not use the King James Version (or even a specific edition of the King James Version) are not saved. In doing so they believe and teach a heresy — one that violates the Biblical doctrine of salvation by adding conditions not taught in Scripture. [See: Essential doctrines of the Christian faith] Those KJV-Onlyists who teach this in so doing place themselves outside the boundaries of the Christian faith, and should be considered heretics.
Many in the King James Only movement insist that there are conspiracies behind new Bible translations, meant to take away, diminish or introduce various doctrines.
Daniel B. Wallace, Executive Director for the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts, responds:So, is there a conspiracy today? My answer may surprise the reader: yes, I believe there is. But the conspiracy has not produced these modern translations. Rather, I believe that there is a conspiracy to cause division among believers, to deflect our focus from the gospel to petty issues, to elevate an anti-intellectual spirit that does not honor the mind which God has created, and to uphold as the only Holy Bible a translation that, as lucid as it was in its day, four hundred years later makes the gospel seem antiquated and difficult to understand.2 It takes little thought to see who is behind such a conspiracy.
– Source: Daniel B. Wallace [1] , The Conspiracy Behind the New Bible Translations
Makes the gospel difficult to understand? Nope on that.
1 Corinthians 15:3-4
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
You can't get easier than that. How Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He rose again. That's the gospel. How is that difficult to understand?
Actually, the new versions like the ever changing ESV are in error for Christ was not raised but He rose.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
Christ had the power to overcome death.Nice try Mr. Wallace. Btw, how are we doing since all these new versions have come out? The church has been weakened in disbelief and no real revivals are happening. They have welcomed in the age of Laodicea.
E
eph610
Guest
Funny thing about revivals and churches being weakened.... we had one just the other night in a prison service....and it was not ushered in by which Bible version, but by the Spirit himself.....
186 women all worshiping , praising God and being touched by the Spirit.....the Word of God went forward and did not return void and not because I preached out of a KJB, because I did not, but because the word came in demonstration of the Spirit and of power....there were 16 first time salvation's......it was a powerful service.......And you know what!?!?!?.............there were probably at least 12 different Bible version in attendance including the KJV.....
That service and that Church looked more Philadelphia than Laodicean...
I would urge you to consider your words before posting them, because it is better to shut up and be considered a fool then open your mouth and remove all doubt....
E
eph610
Guest
Wow... just when I think you've grasped your last straw, you find another.
Let me see if I understood you correctly.... you are saying that the gradual falling away of the believers is the fault of the RSV, ASM, NRSV, NASB, and the NIV?
And do you really think that saying He was raised from the dead is any different from saying he rose from the dead?
Just how do you see any difference there? He rose, because he had the power of God, he WAS God.
He was raised by the power of God.... same thing.
Do you honestly think that the phrasing of that sentence will cause believers to miss the mark?
Come on, now.... you cannot be that legalistic.