How do we view heretic hunters websites that supposedly expose error?

[eternally-gratefull]

The two phrases come to mind
"Love your enemies"
"Keep you friends close and your enemies closer still"

If you want to discover the biggests weaknesses about your position go to you enemies
and see what they write.

If what they are saying is true, then you need to change your position or if you believe
the world is founded on opinion and position, then you will never have a foundation.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life"

In a simple way what this means is everything submits to truth. This means what we call
faith, certainty, conviction, experience is subservient to truth. It is odd in someways but
giving up faith can also mean you regain it, because the faith you have can be founded on
groups, impression, experiences, but you need to understand Jesus is so much more than
this, that what we often regard as loyalty or defence of where we are can be rebellion and
disbelief that Jesus is real.

I agree, Jesus should be our standard of truth.. nothing else.

 

[HisHolly]

In response to part 2.

I'm the same way, if my faith increases, as well as love and admiration then I go with it.. Satan is not gonna send a false teacher to get everyone looking at and loving God more.. Just like you said Bruce, God isn't trying to keep us from Him.. I'm no expert in all areas but I do know bondage when presented as freedom,I was bound heavily.. That's what a false message is..

 

[LaurenTM]

No, you misunderstood. This is about setting people up so that "heresy" is being mocked, because these fringe people call orthodox Christians, (even if they disagree about things) heretics.

This opens the door for joking and mocking people who are aware of real heresy. And you know what, if for some reason I did go to one of these websites, (never have, I confess) and I found something TRUE, about a heresy, it doesn't make it false, just because of the format nor URL.

Nor, does it make it right to say that if someone says something is orthodox, and it is not, to mock it and imply that all heretic websites are wrong. Or, that there are certain current false doctrines by heretics, that are false, regardless of where the material is found.

Truth in Scripture is always true, even if it is on the "Heretics together fighting heretics" website or not.

I do not understand at all, after all we have been through the last year, with a certain heretical doctrine trying to take over this place, why Bruce has decided to come back again at this. In fact, I really question his motives!

Surely there are much more positive things to talk about to do with doctrine and the Bible.

I am uncomfortable with the op as well...I would have hoped people would just leave well enough alone for at least a few weeks and see how things go

the first thought I had last night, was the fact that much of the NT was written to CORRECT, REPROVE and DISCIPLINE those in error

things got very ugly in the BDF with thread after thread being hijacked and you could literally 'feel' the bad atmosphere

it appears to be easy to direct the thoughts of some folks with persuasive words and compliments when they agree with you, but I am not made of that stuff

I will say with PaulFor if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully. II Cor. 11:4

I don't agree with some things you have said Angela...delivered in anger does not work for me...but I love you in Jesus...

I'm not sure how to put in words what I 'feel' right now, but something is off to slide this in...it's like coming in through the back door when everyone is expecting you in the front

I'm not worried about folks wanting to throw rocks at me now...I don't say I agree when I do not...

 

[LaurenTM]

No, I did not misunderstand at all. Read the op.

In fact. No one is calling orthodox heretics at all. from what I see, But for some reason a lot of orthodox loves to go to heretics hunting sites to dig up dirt on other Christians, so they can use it..

That is what the op is about.. Should we go to heretic hunter webpages to get our dirt. Can they be reliable. If so. How??

If someone is teaching heresy, Can't we address it right there.. Why do we need to go to webpages which are biased?

a person must have a genuine foundation in Christ...earned through study, prayer and time spent in the presence of God

when something does not ring true, that person will sense it...even if the words seem correct

I think it pertinent and wise to make sure of facts...the Bible commends those who do so

again, pleasant words do not necessarily give life

what has been going on in the BDF over the last months is between only a few people with others chiming in from time to time

IMO, that should have never happened

I am beyond glad that the owner of this site, along with the mods, are doing and have done something about it

 

[Grace777x70]

This sounds perilously to me like someone trying to downplay the fact that there are real heresies in the modern church. For that matter, there have been heretics since the NT, with many verses warning people of false teachers, and warning others of false doctrines that were taking hold of some churches. From gnostics in the 2nd century AD through to the big one in the mid 3rd century, in which many in the church who said Jesus wasn't God, it seems to be human nature to take something that is very clear in the Bible, and make it into something that leads people astray.

Yes, the Catholic church is a good example of a heresy believed by many people, which Martin Luther, Zwingli and Calvin all called and changed the future of the church in the 15 century.

Today, there are cults like Mormans, JW's, and other groups who use the Bible to their own ends.

I think we can pretty much all agree on those heresies.

But what about today? We do need to agree on sound doctrine. If not, we do have to consider that what we ourselves are believing might also be heresy. I'm not talking side issues, but rather basic soteriology. How are we saved? And theology - who is God? And what is his character? And who is man, (that you are mindful of him?). Anthropology and so on and so on.

My thought is some basic doctrines have stood the test of time - such as Jesus dying on the cross for our sins, when we believe and repent! Or is that repent and believe? To name only one thing that seems to be up for discussion.

But all these johny-come-lately types with a church and/or some channel on Youtube to preach "another" gospel. These are the ones we really need to be wary of.

As for main stream preachers, like you have listed above, it is a small fringe of people calling these people heretics, often heretics themselves. But other aspects of modern preachers, who twist the Bible, well, we all should be wary of those people. They have not stood the test of time, like Martin Luther, or even the very orthodox people in your list.

What concerns me about this post, is that it mocks the fact that there are real heretics today. This whole post is situational ethics and certainly there is truth and lies, and people do need to realize that not necessarily "everything" is ok, and that we do need to be aware when groups come into CC, for example and twist the Bible to make it look like their favourite preacher has discovered some new truth, when in fact, it might just be antinomanism revisted!

We need to call a spade a spade, for sure!

I agree to many of your observations. If you read my other posts you will see that I have said that we do need to be on guard for false teachers - for example post #34 states this very clearly.

Post #2 was asking about how do we "assess" what people are saying about these supposed heretics views ( division causing people ) and are in all this error.

The purpose of the OP was to try to find answers to the question about "determining these so-called errors" so that we could stop having the bad behavior from manifesting like name-calling, insults, the condescending attitudes towards those that do have a slightly different view of non-essential truths. These are what cause divisions and strife amongst us.

I think the thought that the post was mocking the fact that there are real heretics is mis-guided and certainly not my intention. It was to show the fact that to someone that has a different view of a subject than they do - they are attacked for it and insulted by others with a different view.

Thanks for your insights.

 

[Stephen63]

I am done. Get rid of my account.

Bye all.

Really? When the goin' gets tough, well..... you know.

 

[Stephen63]

This sounds perilously to me like someone trying to downplay the fact that there are real heresies in the modern church.

I agree. That seems to be the Op's new calling..... Cover his belief system, while condemning the others as works-based & law.

But all these johny-come-lately types with a church and/or some channel on Youtube to preach "another" gospel. These are the ones we really need to be wary of.

I know, right? Especially those that go to other countries to become televangelists because they can't make it here. Then they post all their garbage on the internet & call themselves "Doctor" So&so. What makes it really bad is when they piggyback off of good sites like CC chat..... Their little minions come on here acting all pious & holy & exert authority like they're somebody, spewing their doctrine & devotionals as if it's proper. Kinda like this one, that in his own OP he's calling people heretic hunters & then demands that those disagreeing quit calling names in his thread. Hypocritical, isn't it?

Then there's those that start threads to push an agenda, & when questions are asked, they say, "Just answer my question, please" as if they're the supreme judge or something.

What concerns me about this post, is that it mocks the fact that there are real heretics today. This whole post is situational ethics and certainly there is truth and lies, and people do need to realize that not necessarily "everything" is ok, and that we do need to be aware when groups come into CC, for example and twist the Bible to make it look like their favourite preacher has discovered some new truth, when in fact, it might just be antinomanism revisted!

We need to call a spade a spade, for sure!

Absolutely. Apparently 1997 was a terrible year for false doctrine, 'cause the worst I've ever seen came outta that. It made false prophet/teacher Kenneth Copeland look like a choir boy.

 

[Stephen63]

I'm bumbed out about this ^^^^

He ain't goin' nowhere. If he does , he'll just come back under a new name.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree. That seems to be the Op's new calling..... Cover his belief system, while condemning the others as works-based & law.
I know, right? Especially those that go to other countries to become televangelists because they can't make it here. Then they post all their garbage on the internet & call themselves "Doctor" So&so. What makes it really bad is when they piggyback off of good sites like CC chat..... Their little minions come on here acting all pious & holy & exert authority like they're somebody, spewing their doctrine & devotionals as if it's proper. Kinda like this one, that in his own OP he's calling people heretic hunters & then demands that those disagreeing quit calling names in his thread. Hypocritical, isn't it?

Then there's those that start threads to push an agenda, & when questions are asked, they say, "Just answer my question, please" as if they're the supreme judge or something.
Absolutely. Apparently 1997 was a terrible year for false doctrine, 'cause the worst I've ever seen came outta that. It made false prophet/teacher Kenneth Copeland look like a choir boy.

Can we not have civil discussions without the constant insults and derogatory comments? Do you have any constructive thoughts on the questions asked in post #2 which is the purpose of the OP?

Thank you.

 

[Stephen63]

No, you misunderstood. This is about setting people up so that "heresy" is being mocked, because these fringe people call orthodox Christians, (even if they disagree about things) heretics.

This opens the door for joking and mocking people who are aware of real heresy. And you know what, if for some reason I did go to one of these websites, (never have, I confess) and I found something TRUE, about a heresy, it doesn't make it false, just because of the format nor URL.

Nor, does it make it right to say that if someone says something is orthodox, and it is not, to mock it and imply that all heretic websites are wrong. Or, that there are certain current false doctrines by heretics, that are false, regardless of where the material is found.

Truth in Scripture is always true, even if it is on the "Heretics together fighting heretics" website or not.

I do not understand at all, after all we have been through the last year, with a certain heretical doctrine trying to take over this place, why Bruce has decided to come back again at this. In fact, I really question his motives!

Surely there are much more positive things to talk about to do with doctrine and the Bible.

*You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.* It was worth two..... I tried.

 

[Stephen63]

It is sad that people feel like they can not be honest and open in a Christian forum for fear of being attacked. The whole "im not attacking you, just correcting you" crowd is an unChristian blight here. I suppose because it is so easy to be uncivil when anonymous. To clothe oneself in self righteousness and belittle others so you feel better about yourself is pathetic. These are the same people who would run to the teacher and tell if things did not go their way. We are supposed to lift up each other. I also find it pitiful that many of those who post that garbage here would never have the guts to say some of what they say here in person. I can not be the only person seeing this.

This would be terrific..... accurate even, if it was aimed at your group. It was projected well, though.

 

[eph610]

I would consider Billy Graham a heretic. Not unsaved, but a heretic.

He pushes lordship salvation and not Grace. The essential.......he is missing.

here we go again....smh

 

[eph610]

Billy Graham never pushed the Law. He just never pushed Grace.

Why are you trying to turn it into Grace vs law?

Billy Graham preached grace all the time, just not your living like hell, living in habitual sin version of it, that does not save, but quietly gives millions a comfortable ride to hell....

 

[eph610]

Grace 777. IMO you are overthinking this and wasting your time. A carnal believer or an unbeliever is NEVER going to hear what you are saying.


If the essential or foundation is not there..............nobody that you want to hear your message is going to hear. Acts 16:31 needs to be FIRST for the unbeliever and the believer needs to get back to it. It can go no Further than that until that is passed and SOLID in the mind of the believer(Acts 16:31.)

We are having absolutely NO success because pretty much EVERYONE here is stuck on salvation.

Acts 16.31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

a person must have a genuine foundation in Christ...earned through study, prayer and time spent in the presence of God

when something does not ring true, that person will sense it...even if the words seem correct

I think it pertinent and wise to make sure of facts...the Bible commends those who do so

again, pleasant words do not necessarily give life

what has been going on in the BDF over the last months is between only a few people with others chiming in from time to time

IMO, that should have never happened

I am beyond glad that the owner of this site, along with the mods, are doing and have done something about it

I think we can see with some things in this OP.. It is not over yet

 

[LaurenTM]

here we go again....smh

tap tap on the shoulder

he's gone and left the building

vacated

moved on

etc

 

[eph610]

tap tap on the shoulder

he's gone and left the building

vacated

moved on

etc

ok thanks....

 

[LaurenTM]

I think we can see with some things in this OP.. It is not over yet

over and out!

 

[royalscot]

The purpose of this OP is to see how we are to view all the people that are supposedly heretics to someone or to some group.

For example to those that believe in speaking in tongues and actually do pray in tongues on a daily basis to their Father - they have been called heretics by whole denominations because they don't agree with this doctrine.

This will be a 2 post OP. This 1st one is to set up the premise and then 2nd one is to ask questions to see how we are to view this subject.

There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.

There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham, Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Dr. Michael Brown, Justin Peters, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Andrew Wommack...etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies".

There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.

Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics".

Their motto is: "If people don't believe some scriptures in the way that"they"do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.." This is not what we were taught in "my" church or in our whole church tradition.

It's the nature of the beast. Martin Luther was a heretic to the catholic church at the time because for 1100 years prior to Luther they had always "believed" the same way.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a false teacher and they are in error and a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

small point , now i am going to be blunt, paul never gave a thought to what others think.
he was an eye witness, to a saviour.

Paul Called by God
11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.Galatians 1

10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.Galatians 1

he preached about a saviour, not what other though.

 

[royalscot]

It is apparent that every name that is in the media of some sort is a heretic to someone or to whole denominations.

The administrators of internet websites have the right to post their opinion on specific people or on doctrinal issues that they disagree with.

How are we to view these calls from others that these people are in error? If they are in error in one area - does this mean that all that they teach is in error too?

How do we decipher what is error? To some error is different than it is to others depending on our church teachings and upbringing.

1) We are to judge all things by the word of God. The problem that I see is that some people's "application" of it can be different and thus we have different interpretations. We do know that we need the Holy Spirit to reveal the things of God to us as it does not come from natural understanding. Without the revelation of the Spirit of God - the scriptures can sometimes become death instead of life with the wrong application of them.

2) Some say that we are to go by church traditions. That sounds good at the surface however the scribes and Pharisees used the "traditions" argument against Jesus. Paul too was accused by the religious establishment of going against the traditional ways of their faith.

Martin Luther was deemed a heretic because he went against 1,100 years of church traditions when he said "The just shall live by faith" He was deemed to be in error and they persecuted him to the point of trying to kill him.

This being "in error" concept seems to happen whenever the Spirit of God is emphasizing certain aspects of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul says in Col.2:8 that the traditions of men will take us captive. Col.2:6 says As we have received the Lord , so are we to walk "in Him".

I believe that we are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ to us as Mary was dependent on the Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

Does anyone have anything to add to this on how we are to decipher true error? Thank you for your insights.

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith Galatians 3: By Faith,

when in your church ,dose god move by your prayer , or his love for the believers.

For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus Romans 3


why are you looking true error. we who believe are true error, that s why he sent his son. that s why grace is a gift. and why the apostles preached walking in faith. with a god , through jesus.

2 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."Acts 10

walking with god in error,(faith) is different to walking with god in judgement of an other.

the point that many fail to see, when did you save your self. so when did your iq and logic reach an equal stand with gods.

so in real terms ,your speculating to accumulate. there is no human iq or logic in the spiritual realms ,when you remember who saved who, in your relationship with god.


For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus Romans 3

(food for thought)