When did the Law expire?

[beta]

Your English bible is flawed. Is n0t inspired by God, and uses a poor language to try to interpret a beautiful language.

There is a reason God did not write the word in English.

Yes, It says sin is transgression of the law. That is ONE of the definitions. But it is not the only definition. The term "sin" itself has a definition. And if you really want, "All have sinned and MISSED TH ELARK, or FALLEN SHORT of Gods glory. So there, It is in English also.

Yes all have sinned and missed the 'mark' (which is what ? where ? which ? please explain ).
and fallen short of God's glory. Agree with that !

 

[FreeNChrist]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. This is how I look at sin too. Exactly. And honestly, it was very soon after I met God that He showed me this, that sin was IN me and that if I thought I was keeping the law, I most assuredly was not meeting its' standards. It is to be a Pharisee to think I have not murdered. Not only that, but it's agreeing with and embracing the wisdom of the world instead of the true and pure Wisdom of God.

There are many different ditches satan gets us into. I used to think it was only me getting me into those ditches. But the truth is, it was a combination mostly. He can see where we are and at what stage and he knows every single thing to suggest to us that will help us into that ditch. Anyway, the ditch I fell into was not a ditch that everyone falls into. There are a lot of different ditches. The one I fell into was the same one of the Galatians. But it was not simple and it cannot be explained in a few words or a sentence. It wasn't just one imperfection that helped me into that ditch, it was many imperfections and wrong thoughts and understandings. And so He had to change my thoughts and understanding on many things before I could truly be got up out of it.

I wanted to be good very, very badly. I knew He expected me to be good and walk uprightly and in holiness. I could say I just didn't understand that sanctification ALSO was by faith alone and that I loved Him and this was why I wanted to be good and tried so hard to be. But it isn't completely true. The fact is, I didn't really love Him with all my heart and that it was pride and a desire to not give up my self life that helped me to get into the ditch of self effort for so long. I wanted to be good while at the same time retaining my life and my rights. But that is not love. It is self seeking and it is demanding my own. It is not loving God with all my heart and picking up my cross.

That's only the tip of the iceberg as to my imperfections and misunderstandings. But I never fell into a ditch of thinking I would just go on being this way until I died. He showed me time and time again, how miserable I truly was and how bad my case was. But after a time of sorrow and repentance and humiliations, He had humbled me to a point where He could lift me up. Until I knew and saw just how bad my case was, and could see it in others also but without despising them as if it wasn't also in me, and realizing that I would never succeed in fixing it, I finally...broke? to all my own efforts and saw they weren't love, they were self seeking and pride, and I admitted I would remain bad unless He did something and so I prayed for Him to make me good and to give me victory over these awful and ugly giants in me. And I began to see some victory and was able to, at times, lay down my self life and pride in order to put another first. But here was another ditch. And some fall into it too. And some don't.

I have probably not made any sense...I should stop because I am very capable of going on for a few more hours.

Aren't you still in that ditch that the Galatians fell into? Actually is seems like you are falling deeper into that ditch. I believe that is the very point that E.G. has been trying to get you to see.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Yes all have sinned and missed the 'mark' (which is what ? where ? which ? please explain ).
and fallen short of God's glory. Agree with that !

The "mark" is the perfect and holy character of God, which is His glory. And it matters not if you miss that mark by a fraction of an inch, or a mile. "Your best" simply will not do. If you are jumping over a very deep ravine, it doesn't matter if you miss the other side by an inch or a yard.... you will be just as dead either way.

 

[Stephen63]

Well, I happen to believe that God loves the world just like Jesus said He does.

It seems natural that in order to be blotted out of God's book of Life - one must be in it in the first place.

This means to me that He wants everyone to repent and come to Christ so that they can be with Him forever. In His mind He has them all in the book of Life until they reject Christ - then they are blotted out because only Jesus is Life. He is a good loving Father.

John 3:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Ephesians 2:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,

This may conflict with some people's church teachings and traditions but hey - it happens to all of us. We are free to believe what we want in this area and of course people are free to say someone else's belief is heretical because it conflicts with mine too. All is well...The Lord has it all under control....

It's this constant steering away from statements & questions that make you look so suspicious. And definitely a person of interest.

It was expected though..... JW's & LDS's do it all the time.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Aren't you still in that ditch that the Galatians fell into? Actually is seems like you are falling deeper into that ditch. I believe that is the very point that E.G. has been trying to get you to see.

If I am still in that ditch of self effort in trying to be made good, you will have to point out how that is. It was only by seeing, as I said, that I would remain in that ditch forever unless God was the one to make me good, that I began to see victories over the things I tried so hard to have victories over, to no avail. That is depending on God and not my flesh to perfect me, so I don't see myself in the ditch any longer. But I would be happy to listen to your explanation of how you see me still in ditch of self effort and trying to perfect in the flesh what was begun in the Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. This is how I look at sin too. Exactly. And honestly, it was very soon after I met God that He showed me this, that sin was IN me and that if I thought I was keeping the law, I most assuredly was not meeting its' standards. It is to be a Pharisee to think I have not murdered. Not only that, but it's agreeing with and embracing the wisdom of the world instead of the true and pure Wisdom of God.

There are many different ditches satan gets us into. I used to think it was only me getting me into those ditches. But the truth is, it was a combination mostly. He can see where we are and at what stage and he knows every single thing to suggest to us that will help us into that ditch. Anyway, the ditch I fell into was not a ditch that everyone falls into. There are a lot of different ditches. The one I fell into was the same one of the Galatians. But it was not simple and it cannot be explained in a few words or a sentence. It wasn't just one imperfection that helped me into that ditch, it was many imperfections and wrong thoughts and understandings. And so He had to change my thoughts and understanding on many things before I could truly be got up out of it.

I wanted to be good very, very badly. I knew He expected me to be good and walk uprightly and in holiness. I could say I just didn't understand that sanctification ALSO was by faith alone and that I loved Him and this was why I wanted to be good and tried so hard to be. But it isn't completely true. The fact is, I didn't really love Him with all my heart and that it was pride and a desire to not give up my self life that helped me to get into the ditch of self effort for so long. I wanted to be good while at the same time retaining my life and my rights. But that is not love. It is self seeking and it is demanding my own. It is not loving God with all my heart and picking up my cross.

That's only the tip of the iceberg as to my imperfections and misunderstandings. But I never fell into a ditch of thinking I would just go on being this way until I died. He showed me time and time again, how miserable I truly was and how bad my case was. But after a time of sorrow and repentance and humiliations, He had humbled me to a point where He could lift me up. Until I knew and saw just how bad my case was, and could see it in others also but without despising them as if it wasn't also in me, and realizing that I would never succeed in fixing it, I finally...broke? to all my own efforts and saw they weren't love, they were self seeking and pride, and I admitted I would remain bad unless He did something and so I prayed for Him to make me good and to give me victory over these awful and ugly giants in me. And I began to see some victory and was able to, at times, lay down my self life and pride in order to put another first. But here was another ditch. And some fall into it too. And some don't.

I have probably not made any sense...I should stop because I am very capable of going on for a few more hours.

I agree here with you. Except I will say, People do not go around thinking they will live like that till they die, If they do. They are focusing on self. Not others.

Humility says I am not worthy, But God has empowered me anyway, to keep on keeping on. Because it is not my power to begin with.

Our motivation is not the law. Not fear (we were not given a spirit of fear) not Shame (you should be ashamed because of your past)

Our motivation is, we were once sinners and Christ died for us.. I come to God as a servant, who is equipped with the tools he gave me, and as Isaiah the prophet said, Here I am Lord use me, Not because I am perfect. Or I follow your law.. But because You forgave me, so I need to share that love to save others.. Serve others. Help others.. Win spiritual battles with the enemy. Etc..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, I have seen growing love in you. I have seen your growth over the last few months. I have seen you understand that defense of doctrine, no matter how good or right it may be, is no excuse for ceasing to walk in love, respecting all men because God wants none to perish. I have seen you go from answering a blow with a blow to refusing to do so, which is laying down your life for another so your Savior can be seen by people instead of them seeing you.

Thank you this means a lot

 

[Grace777x70]

It's this constant steering away from statements & questions that make you look so suspicious. And definitely a person of interest.

It was expected though..... JW's & LDS's do it all the time.

Ahhh....sorry Stephen63 - I am not falling for this "baiting". You are free to believe what you want about the book of Life - I won't call you a heretic because you believe something different than some other people...All is well....have a great day!...Bless you!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good morning EG. Over time I am beginning to understand your approach.
One can polarise people into one of two camps or start to understand their reference points.

The difficulty with sin is simple, it is God who defines it, because it is a name for things that
express our separation from Him. Which is the sin, adultery the act, or the look that started
the interaction, or the first thought, or the first choice to act on the thought, or even the
openness to such behaviour. Or as you would put it, looking at self or looking at God, whatever
this really means.

In your view sin becomes the act of being human in a mortal world. In my view God is defining
the act as the fruit of the whole process, the act of destruction being worthy of judgement. To
break the inevitable process that works to acts of sin, is find ones dwelling with Christ.

God appears to be saying in Christ, you are my people, holy and acceptable, washed and pure.
It is sinful acts that defile, driven from behaviour traits that are wrong. Sorting out the heart
and what you focus on changes ones behaviour. Jesus was always interested in what is in our
hearts, how this is the centre of everything we do. It is why purity, blamelessness etc. need
to become part of who we are.

But I think you would feel this is sinful to even think about because it is dwelling on self
and trying to save yourself through consciously looking at the heart rather than leaving it all
to God, like having a dirty house and asking a cleaner to clean it for you.

My response to this would be by not dealing with ones own heart and what you dwell on and
think about, is denying the power of love and the need for repentance, confession and active
change of behaviour based on letting the Lord be the King of our lives. It involves choice at
its core, moral decisions that make a difference and learning to love, empathise and feel with
people, not just respond to the externals.

Do you understand where I am coming from?

By the way I am not trying to attack your position or who you are, I am merely defining different
approaches and why they have different outcomes and seem to generate miss-understanding.

I am on a small IPAD, this is hard to read. Since you are being open, I really want to make sure I understand before I just respond, so please bear with me, I will be back on my computer soon and I will look when I can see it better, and have more time to take it down and try to understand what you said.

oh and thank you Peter

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes all have sinned and missed the 'mark' (which is what ? where ? which ? please explain ).
and fallen short of God's glory. Agree with that !

I think Jesus did.

Love the lord your God with everything you have

Love your neighbor

Anytime we take our eyes off these two commands, We are in sin

That is the mark, Jesus loved others and God his whole life. He served others, placed their needs above his, Even when confronted by his family or his disciples about the fact he needed to take care of himself. He refused. He knew his life was host. And his work was great..

We should ALL have this attitude. .

 

[beta]

The "mark" is the perfect and holy character of God, which is His glory. And it matters not if you miss that mark by a fraction of an inch, or a mile. "Your best" simply will not do. If you are jumping over a very deep ravine, it doesn't matter if you miss the other side by an inch or a yard.... you will be just as dead either way.

Thank you FBG, that makes sense.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The "mark" is the perfect and holy character of God, which is His glory. And it matters not if you miss that mark by a fraction of an inch, or a mile. "Your best" simply will not do. If you are jumping over a very deep ravine, it doesn't matter if you miss the other side by an inch or a yard.... you will be just as dead either way.

Yes this is the part I think people miss.

It does not matter how short we fall. We are just as dead as the person who missed it by the most. All are dead.

if we commit the least of all sins, we are as guilty as if we committed them all.

Humans want to look and complain themselves with others. I am not like the infers, I am not like the "greasy gracers" I am not like the :legalisms" I am not a muddier, I do not drink smoke or cuss (name whatever status we have placed ourselves in ,for we have all done it before, maybe still are) So I must be ok.

God says nope. You are short of my standard, You have missed the mark, Try to jump that barrier between us by your own power. You will fail. Let my son carry you to the other side. That is your only hope.

 

[Stephen63]

I noticed some reputation building this morning. It's nothing new..... but usually it's building the reputation of a doctrine or celebrity preacher.

I must agree that the person getting it truly needed it. Considering who it is though, I wonder if it will work.

 

[Stephen63]

BTW, some of the OT law didn't cease..... we even have them in our govt. laws today.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I agree here with you. Except I will say, People do not go around thinking they will live like that till they die, If they do. They are focusing on self. Not others.

Humility says I am not worthy, But God has empowered me anyway, to keep on keeping on. Because it is not my power to begin with.

Our motivation is not the law. Not fear (we were not given a spirit of fear) not Shame (you should be ashamed because of your past)

Our motivation is, we were once sinners and Christ died for us.. I come to God as a servant, who is equipped with the tools he gave me, and as Isaiah the prophet said, Here I am Lord use me, Not because I am perfect. Or I follow your law.. But because You forgave me, so I need to share that love to save others.. Serve others. Help others.. Win spiritual battles with the enemy. Etc..

I can't say I understand all you're trying to say here, but I want to say this. He saved me and gave me His Spirit before I even knew what sin really was. So it's obvious to me that I was not saved by following the law. But I can also see, looking back and then looking at present, that He has begun to fulfill the law in me. I am no longer murdering. And I didn't accomplish that because, as I've said, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't do it. But He accomplished it when I stopped all my striving to do it and just asked Him to make me good. I couldn't grow myself in any virtue, but He can if I stop trusting in every other way than by abiding in Him.

 

[gb9]

BTW, some of the OT law didn't cease..... we even have them in our govt. laws today.

hey, is there anything you are not against?? as my pastor says, the Church should be known by what we are for, and how much good we do in Jesus's name.

 

[Hawkins]

What limits me is Christ's love....

"For the love of Christ controls and compels us, because we have concluded this, that One died for all, therefore all died" 2 Cor 5:14

He loves only His sheep. You need to be holy in order to show that you are one.

Hebrews 12:14 (NIV2011)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.


You need to strive toward holiness because Jesus is holy, or you are denying Him.

​Jude 1:4 (NIV2011)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I can't say I understand all you're trying to say here, but I want to say this. He saved me and gave me His Spirit before I even knew what sin really was. So it's obvious to me that I was not saved by following the law. But I can also see, looking back and then looking at present, that He has begun to fulfill the law in me. I am no longer murdering. And I didn't accomplish that because, as I've said, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't do it. But He accomplished it when I stopped all my striving to do it and just asked Him to make me good. I couldn't grow myself in any virtue, but He can if I stop trusting in every other way than by abiding in Him.

On the one hand, He sometimes lets me see the good work He is doing in me. On the other hand, He still keeps showing me what I lack in virtue and goodness and purity. Obviously, there's a ditch here that has to be avoided if possible. I think He prevents me from the ditch by allowing me to see BOTH of these things.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

On the one hand, He sometimes lets me see the good work He is doing in me. On the other hand, He still keeps showing me what I lack in virtue and goodness and purity. Obviously, there's a ditch here that has to be avoided if possible. I think He prevents me from the ditch by allowing me to see BOTH of these things.

He sometimes allows me to see the one to encourage me to keep trusting Him. And He shows me the other, lest the first would make me proud, as if I was the one who did it.

 

[Hawkins]

Yes all have sinned and missed the 'mark' (which is what ? where ? which ? please explain ).
and fallen short of God's glory. Agree with that !

We all sinned. I think it's not about whether we sinned. It's more about whether we give up striving towards holiness. We sin we repent we strive towards holiness by relying on faith in God and Jesus Christ. That's what we should do.