Which Bible?

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trofimus said:
KJV1611, John146

Can you explain to me another difference between KJV NT and KJV OT?


"And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read,
Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?"
(Mt 21:16, KJV)

"Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength"
(Psalm 8:2, KJV)

LXX:
"Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou perfected praise" (Psalm 8:2)
Click to expand...
Jesus very rarely quoted Old Testament scripture to the Pharisees... when he spoke to them he gave them the meaning which was hidden in the Old Testament.

Psalm 8:2 KJV
Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

Without using the words that Jesus spoke in Mattew, what is the strength in Psalm 8:2? What power will still the enemy?

Edit to say: I know what that power is that stills the enemy because Jesus told me in Matthew.
 
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John146 said:
Question to you before I answer: Did you discover this so called error through your own Bible reading? Where you reading Matthew 21:16 one day and say to yourself, "Hey, that's not what it said back in Psalm 8:2. This is an outrage!"

Or, like most Bible skeptics out to prove the Bible is not the word of God, go and google "errors in the KJV"?

Just curious...
Click to expand...


No, I am looking at the differences between MSS and LXX texts and comparing how are they quoted in the NT, last days. Because I want to write an article about it.

KJV errors I find because of it are, lets say, byproduct of this study.
 
Dan_473 said:
exactly seven years or just around seven years?
Click to expand...

How would I know lol... I don't have an more info than you do. I would think any time in the the 7th year would suffice. Next question is - 365 day calendar or 360 day lol. I don't know.
 
KJV1611 said:
Jesus very rarely quoted Old Testament scripture to the Pharisees... when he spoke to them he gave them the meaning which was hidden in the Old Testament.

Psalm 8:2 KJV
Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

Without using the words that Jesus spoke in Mattew, what is the strength in Psalm 8:2? What power will still the enemy?

Edit to say: I know what that power is that stills the enemy because Jesus told me in Matthew.
Click to expand...

I am not sure if I understand your response.

Which reading of Psalm 8:2 is the right one? Of the LXX which is precisely like Jesus said or KJV´ which is different?
 
trofimus said:
I am not sure if I understand your response.

Which reading of Psalm 8:2 is the right one? Of the LXX which is precisely like Jesus said or KJV´ which is different?
Click to expand...

You can't figure it out from LXX so use the KJV.
 
trofimus said:
No, I am looking at the differences between MSS and LXX texts and comparing how are they quoted in the NT, last days. Because I want to write an article about it.

KJV errors I find because of it are, lets say, byproduct of this study.
Click to expand...


In Matthew 21 the Lord Jesus had just cleansed the temple of the moneychangers and those that bought and sold in it. At that time some children begin to cry out, saying: "Hosanna to the Son of David". The chief priests and scribes were displeased with this, and asked the Lord: "Hearest thou what these say?".


Then the Lord responded: "Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast PERFECTED PRAISE?"


This is a reference to Psalm 8:2. However the Hebrew text of Psalm 8:2 does not read the same way as the New Testament "quotation".


The Hebrew text reads: "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ORDAINED STRENGTH because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger."


The Hebrew word "strength" is used in such verses as Exodus 15:2 "The LORD is my STRENGTH and song, and he is become my salvation."; Psalm 29:1-2 "Give unto the LORD, O ye mighty, give unto the LORD glory and STRENGTH. Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness."; and 2 Samuel 6:14 "And David danced before the LORD with all his MIGHT."


As can be seen from these verses, there can be a logical connection between Strength and Praise. "Lord is my Strength and song", "give glory and strength...worship", "danced before the LORD with all his might". A great verse that brings this out is Nehemiah 8:10 - "for this day is holy unto our Lord; neither be ye sorry; for THE JOY OF THE LORD IS YOUR STRENGTH." We find strength in hard times and against our foes, when we begin to praise God for His goodness and power.


A perfect N.T. example is when Paul and Silas were beaten, cast into prison, and their feet placed in the stocks. "And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God." (Acts 16:22-25) They found great spiritual strength in the midst of their hardships by praising their God.
 
KJV1611 said:
You can't figure it out from LXX so use the KJV.
Click to expand...
The problem with LXX is that the LXX version says the same thing Jesus said in Matthew. It takes the words of the KJV Old Testament and the words of the KJV New Testament to understand what either of the verses mean.
 
John146 said:
In Matthew 21 the Lord Jesus had just cleansed the temple of the moneychangers and those that bought and sold in it. At that time some children begin to cry out, saying: "Hosanna to the Son of David". The chief priests and scribes were displeased with this, and asked the Lord: "Hearest thou what these say?".


Then the Lord responded: "Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast PERFECTED PRAISE?"


This is a reference to Psalm 8:2. However the Hebrew text of Psalm 8:2 does not read the same way as the New Testament "quotation".


The Hebrew text reads: "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ORDAINED STRENGTH because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger."


The Hebrew word "strength" is used in such verses as Exodus 15:2 "The LORD is my STRENGTH and song, and he is become my salvation."; Psalm 29:1-2 "Give unto the LORD, O ye mighty, give unto the LORD glory and STRENGTH. Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness."; and 2 Samuel 6:14 "And David danced before the LORD with all his MIGHT."


As can be seen from these verses, there can be a logical connection between Strength and Praise. "Lord is my Strength and song", "give glory and strength...worship", "danced before the LORD with all his might". A great verse that brings this out is Nehemiah 8:10 - "for this day is holy unto our Lord; neither be ye sorry; for THE JOY OF THE LORD IS YOUR STRENGTH." We find strength in hard times and against our foes, when we begin to praise God for His goodness and power.


A perfect N.T. example is when Paul and Silas were beaten, cast into prison, and their feet placed in the stocks. "And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God." (Acts 16:22-25) They found great spiritual strength in the midst of their hardships by praising their God.
Click to expand...

You're right but that's way too complicated lol. Jesus defines the power of Psalm 8:2 in Matthew... praise is the power against the enemy.
 
John146 said:
In Matthew 21 the Lord Jesus had just cleansed the temple of the moneychangers and those that bought and sold in it. At that time some children begin to cry out, saying: "Hosanna to the Son of David". The chief priests and scribes were displeased with this, and asked the Lord: "Hearest thou what these say?".


Then the Lord responded: "Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast PERFECTED PRAISE?"


This is a reference to Psalm 8:2. However the Hebrew text of Psalm 8:2 does not read the same way as the New Testament "quotation".


The Hebrew text reads: "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ORDAINED STRENGTH because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger."


The Hebrew word "strength" is used in such verses as Exodus 15:2 "The LORD is my STRENGTH and song, and he is become my salvation."; Psalm 29:1-2 "Give unto the LORD, O ye mighty, give unto the LORD glory and STRENGTH. Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness."; and 2 Samuel 6:14 "And David danced before the LORD with all his MIGHT."


As can be seen from these verses, there can be a logical connection between Strength and Praise. "Lord is my Strength and song", "give glory and strength...worship", "danced before the LORD with all his might". A great verse that brings this out is Nehemiah 8:10 - "for this day is holy unto our Lord; neither be ye sorry; for THE JOY OF THE LORD IS YOUR STRENGTH." We find strength in hard times and against our foes, when we begin to praise God for His goodness and power.


A perfect N.T. example is when Paul and Silas were beaten, cast into prison, and their feet placed in the stocks. "And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God." (Acts 16:22-25) They found great spiritual strength in the midst of their hardships by praising their God.
Click to expand...

Excuse me, but this response is really weak. Jesus said "have you not read" and then quotes a verse.

Yes, Hebrew texts used by KJV are different. Which is a bad thing you are trying to get arround by making connections to absolutely unrelated texts.
 
the KJV is our Bible of choice, but of course, we understand that it is not 100% correct...
one example is the word 'easter', it alone proves that this is a mis-translation, simple =
go to Strong's and look it up...
 
oldethennew said:
the KJV is our Bible of choice, but of course, we understand that it is not 100% correct...
one example is the word 'easter', it alone proves that this is a mis-translation, simple =
go to Strong's and look it up...
Click to expand...

Is the strong's concordance the standard on what God has said?
 
trofimus said:
Excuse me, but this response is really weak. Jesus said "have you not read" and then quotes a verse.

Yes, Hebrew texts used by KJV are different. Which is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
It's no different than me saying Trofimus have you not in the Psalms - Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book of DNA all thy members were written.

I'm getting you to go read Psalm 139:16 and I'm telling you that the "book" in that verse is talking about DNA.
 
oldethennew said:
the KJV is our Bible of choice, but of course, we understand that it is not 100% correct...
one example is the word 'easter', it alone proves that this is a mis-translation, simple =
go to Strong's and look it up...
Click to expand...
And the issue here is that some of know the KJV is 100% and it's not the bible that has mistakes of the misunderstanding
 
KJV1611 said:
Trofimus you put so much effort in this word being "the right" original word that you're missing the entire message of the bible.
Click to expand...

Its interesting the KJV Only guy says this...

So now "the right word" does not matter and the entire message of the Bible is important? Great! :)

So, please, remember this when you will write about NIV and others :)
 
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oldethennew said:
the KJV is our Bible of choice, but of course, we understand that it is not 100% correct...
one example is the word 'easter', it alone proves that this is a mis-translation, simple =
go to Strong's and look it up...
Click to expand...
The issue here is that some of us know the KJV is 100% accurate. It's not that the KJV has errors, it's the lack of understanding from the ones who claim the errors.

Easter is a perfect example. The only correct translation for Pascha in that verse is Easter. Out of all the places Pascha is found in the New Testament, that occurance in Acts is the only place it's mentioned AFTER passover had been fulfilled. Jesus came, died, rose again... passover is fulfilled. The fulfillment of Passover is called Easter.

Either the KJV translators were some extremely sharp people or the Holy Spirit lead them to use Easter instead of Passover.
 
trofimus said:
Its interesting the KJV Only guy says this...

So now "the right word" does not matter and the entire message of the Bible is important? Great! :)

So, please, remember this when you will write about NIV and others :)
Click to expand...

God gave us the right words, we don't have to go around questioning whether this or that has been translated right. We just need to find the book that already has the right words. It's very easy to tell if the words are right... they will never contradict other parts of scripture.
 
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