Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?
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Originally Posted by valiant
You are all mixed up. Show me where the Holy Spirit is ever called the Father of Jesus in the NT. You are suggesting that a god cohabited with a woman. That is PAGANISM.
What was being shown was how God came into the world as a man, and that this was made possible by the operation of the Spirit. He did NOT cohabit with Mary. You are disgusting.
You are pathetic. God in eternity WAS ALWAYS one Being and three persona. Just because you can't understand it with your puny mind does not negate the fact. The Scripture reveals it clearly.
Rubbish. The eternal Son (John 3.16; 8.58) became Jesus, and was always distinct from the Father.
The personal Holy Spirit, was SENT by the Father in His Name? (John 14.25), How could He then BE the Father? You are utterly confused.
.
What was being shown was how God came into the world as a man, and that this was made possible by the operation of the Spirit. He did NOT cohabit with Mary. You are disgusting.
You are pathetic. God in eternity WAS ALWAYS one Being and three persona. Just because you can't understand it with your puny mind does not negate the fact. The Scripture reveals it clearly.
Rubbish. The eternal Son (John 3.16; 8.58) became Jesus, and was always distinct from the Father.
The personal Holy Spirit, was SENT by the Father in His Name? (John 14.25), How could He then BE the Father? You are utterly confused.
.
I notice you NEVER deal with the Scripture I give. You ignore them because you have no answer
"2 Samuel 7:14"I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands."
1 Chronicles 17:13
"I will be his father, and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor."
Why would Jesus need "flogging/punishment?" And how can the Father take His love away from His one and only begotten Son like the Father did from his predecessor? You sure are clueless on exegeting the scriptures from their context and applying them wrongly.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
1. That's right, the pre-incarnate person who later became Jesus was the firstborn over all creation, as documented in Proverbs 8:22-36. Seen in Jn.17:5 as well as in Jn.1:1-2.
2. The above two passages in 1. above clearly reveal there are two persons involved, not one! As the cas is with all fathers and sons.
How blind can you get? You're the one who's busted!
Quasar92
The above reveals the caliber of character you have in the immature attack on your opponent when you are incapable of fielding a Scriptural argument in support of it. Your assessment of 2 Sam.7:14, is your interpretation of it, while it is endorsed by many qualified theologians who endorse the view I presented of it. Keep the pet names you have for your family, amongst yourselves!
Quasar92
Originally Posted by valiant
Jesus said 'Before Abraham was I AM' (John 8.58).Thus He was alive well before Abraham.
He spoke of. 'the glory which I had with you before the world was'. (John 17/5). So He existed with the Father in eternity.
You're busted!!!
He spoke of. 'the glory which I had with you before the world was'. (John 17/5). So He existed with the Father in eternity.
You're busted!!!
In what respect garee are the Father and the Son one according to John 10:30?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
God who is Spirit, acting as a Father and Son, as a labor of their love in perfect mutual submission to one Spirit. As the Father submitted to the Son pouring out the wrath intended for us, the Son who took on the lower form of mutual submission made his request know to the Father and the Father sent His word to strengthen the Son. Together bringing the peace of God that surpasses all human understanding.
We follow the lead of the Son as He does the will of the Father . Just as he made it know to the Father our God, we follow his example of doing the will of another.(not seen)
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Phi 4:6
In that way it takes two working together in perfect harmony to bring peace of one work of faith (belief) . The Father being in a greater position, but of the same Holy Spirit as the Son.
Three things that make up God. God is Spirit, God is Love, God is light .
Or at least that is how I see that mystery today as two attributes of one God. Some call the trinity.
So garee rather than address you post/repeat myself I will post what I said to valiant today on this isssue of John 10:30.
Actually valiant when you said this: "When Jesus said 'I and My Father are one' He meant one in aim and intention. See context." it is true they are one in aim and intention but the immediate context is that the Son and the Father are equal in nature/essence. This is why at John 10:33 says, "The Jews answered Himn, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for BLASPHEMY; and because You, being a man MAKE YOURSELF GOD."
Jesus Christ has just said (vs29) that the sheep are equally safe in His hand and in His Father's hand. The power of the Son is equal to that of the Father, and while this the contextual point of reference, much more is implied especially from John 10:30 which literally reads, "I and the Father WE are one." One which is "hen" in Greek is a neuter number to indicate equality of essence, attributes, design, will, and work. So "one" asserst their unity of essence or nature as identical.
In fact the Jews ask Jesus at vs24, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." The point is the Jews understood Jesus correctly and there could be no mistaking His meaning. Look at John 10:31, "The Jews took up stones "AGAIN" to stone Him. Why? The "again" refers back to John 8:59, where the Jews at that time also attempted to stone Him for "BLASPHEMY." And what did Jesus say to warrant the blasphemy charge according to the Jews? John 8:58, "Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born I am." And keep up the good work valiant.
Now garee, what your doing is equating Gods intrinsic attributes that have always been inherent with God to the three persons that are identified as the one God. Attributes are not persons. You also said the following: "God who is Spirit, acting as a Father and Son, as a labor of their love in perfect mutual submission to one Spirit. As the Father submitted to the Son pouring out the wrath intended for us, the Son who took on the lower form of mutual submission made his request know to the Father and the Father sent His word to strengthen the Son. Together bringing the peace of God that surpasses all human understanding."
When at John 4:24 says, "God is spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." The point of the verse is that God is a spiritual being. God is "NOT" the person of the Holy Spirit and God does not play act or act as you said as a Father and a Son. Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God and God the Father is literally the Father of the Son. Furthermore, the Father "DID NOT" pour out His wrath on His only begotten Son. The Son voluntarily came down from heaven to die for the sins of the world.
1 Thessalonians 5:9, "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST." Since God has not destined us for wrath He surely is not going pour out His wrath on His Son. In fact, 2 Corinthians 5:19 says, "namely, that God was in Christ recociling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses agains them, and He has comminted to us the word of reconcilation." Since God the Father was in the Son it hardly makes any sense He is going to pour out His wrath on His Son whom He loves.
In conclusion, your understanding of the trinity is flawed because it has nothing to do with the attributes of God. The trinity is not an "assumption." It is the normative systematic theology of God in Christianity and is "BASED" on the fact that the Bible is explicit in telling us that there is , was and forever will be only ONE God AND the fact that the Bible identifies three and ONLY THREE PERSONS AS GOD. That's it garee which also means it is not some great mystery to understand. The mystey is the mechanics of how God pulls it off? Sort of like how can God be omnipresent and in the heart of billions of Chritians? Please read John 14:23.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Actually valiant when you said this: "When Jesus said 'I and My Father are one' He meant one in aim and intention. See context." it is true they are one in aim and intention but the immediate context is that the Son and the Father are equal in nature/essence. This is why at John 10:33 says, "The Jews answered Himn, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for BLASPHEMY; and because You, being a man MAKE YOURSELF GOD."
Jesus Christ has just said (vs29) that the sheep are equally safe in His hand and in His Father's hand. The power of the Son is equal to that of the Father, and while this the contextual point of reference, much more is implied especially from John 10:30 which literally reads, "I and the Father WE are one." One which is "hen" in Greek is a neuter number to indicate equality of essence, attributes, design, will, and work. So "one" asserst their unity of essence or nature as identical.
In fact the Jews ask Jesus at vs24, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." The point is the Jews understood Jesus correctly and there could be no mistaking His meaning. Look at John 10:31, "The Jews took up stones "AGAIN" to stone Him. Why? The "again" refers back to John 8:59, where the Jews at that time also attempted to stone Him for "BLASPHEMY." And what did Jesus say to warrant the blasphemy charge according to the Jews? John 8:58, "Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born I am."
And keep up the good work valiant.Now garee, what your doing is equating Gods intrinsic attributes that have always been inherent with God to the three persons that are identified as the one God. Attributes are not persons. You also said the following: "God who is Spirit, acting as a Father and Son, as a labor of their love in perfect mutual submission to one Spirit. As the Father submitted to the Son pouring out the wrath intended for us, the Son who took on the lower form of mutual submission made his request know to the Father and the Father sent His word to strengthen the Son. Together bringing the peace of God that surpasses all human understanding."
When at John 4:24 says, "God is spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." The point of the verse is that God is a spiritual being. God is "NOT" the person of the Holy Spirit and God does not play act or act as you said as a Father and a Son. Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God and God the Father is literally the Father of the Son. Furthermore, the Father "DID NOT" pour out His wrath on His only begotten Son. The Son voluntarily came down from heaven to die for the sins of the world.
1 Thessalonians 5:9, "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST." Since God has not destined us for wrath He surely is not going pour out His wrath on His Son. In fact, 2 Corinthians 5:19 says, "namely, that God was in Christ recociling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses agains them, and He has comminted to us the word of reconcilation." Since God the Father was in the Son it hardly makes any sense He is going to pour out His wrath on His Son whom He loves.
In conclusion, your understanding of the trinity is flawed because it has nothing to do with the attributes of God. The trinity is not an "assumption." It is the normative systematic theology of God in Christianity and is "BASED" on the fact that the Bible is explicit in telling us that there is , was and forever will be only ONE God AND the fact that the Bible identifies three and ONLY THREE PERSONS AS GOD. That's it garee which also means it is not some great mystery to understand. The mystey is the mechanics of how God pulls it off? Sort of like how can God be omnipresent and in the heart of billions of Chritians? Please read John 14:23.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
J
how do we know the thomas passage is not the same context as when the Father made Moses a god to pharaoh? and if it is as you say then that does not sync with the following NT books, in the greetings they always adress the Father as the Most High and Jesus as Lord. i think there is a difference in the two. the Son i agree is one with the Father but i dont think that makes the Son and the Father one and the same, if that was so then the son wouldnt be a gate to the Father, the way to the Father, the means to get to the Father, the Son would simply be the goal and He never said that.
i should not have suggested you are bending and twisting, that was wrong to say. we all are passionate about what we believe.
it simply meant the Son could be full of the Father but it doesnt necessarily make the Son the Father. i think its more complex.
i should not have suggested you are bending and twisting, that was wrong to say. we all are passionate about what we believe.
And regarding your last sentence, "not sure what your asking, a cup can be full of the ocean yet the cup is not the ocean." This was directed to the other poster garee. However, I will answer your question anyway. And God the Father who has a Son will pass along His nature to that Son which is a universal law. So in the case of Jesus Christ He is the Son of God on His Fathers side and the Son of Man on His mothers side. In short, Jesus Christ has two natures, one of Deity and one of human. This is not hard to understand! And notice I did not even mention the trinity because there is no need.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Tell me, genius, when did God bring wisdom forth; and when was it given birth, and when did it have emotions, as the following origins of the person who later became the human Jesus is, in the following passage of Scripture, provided for us by Solomon:
Beginning in Proverbs 8, pertaining to the attributes of God's Wisdom, I refer specifically to verses 22 through 36, that clearly identify the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus Christ as the WHO, of the Wisdom of God. [From the NIV].
"The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deed of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning,
before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24]
when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. [Vs 24-26]
I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28]
when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30]
rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33]
Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and
receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-36]
That Jesus is the Wisdom [Power and knowledge] of God is made abundantly clear in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3 The firstborn over all creation, as recorded in Col.1:15!
Quasar92
So quasar, I have a simple question foryou based on what you said above, "That's right, the pre-incarnate person who later became Jesus was the firstborn over all creation." Who was that pre-incarnate person quasar?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Who do you think I'm talking about? See my post 1315 for your answer, if you need one.
Quasar92
Hi Bluto thanks for the reply. My two cents.
The context is I and my the father are one .Not that they will be one if they could have to wait get their thoughts together. Christ always does the will of the father the free will of God who is of one mindand always does wahtsoever his soul pleases.
They are one in intention(belief faith) as well as the work of the one faith, belief of God . His word does not return void, because it cannot. One God, one faith. Faith to include thier works working as one, seeing a belief without works is dead.
God does not have a nature .He is supernatural (without nature, a beginning)He has no flesh as a being, that would make Him a Spirit without form a creation and not the faithful Creator.who by a work of His faith forms that which was not there.
In His Spirit essence he was God. There is simply nothing attributed to the flesh ,which He of his own temporal flesh said it cannot profit .In his outward temporal appearance he refused all worship. He is not a man as us and neither is there a daysman, a person of flesh as an infallible umpire of earth approved of by both man and God. That would describe the Pope or any man that claims to the infallible interpreter, as our teacher on earth .Even the Son of man made no such claim .
We are warned of those who do say we do need a man to teach us. Christ the Holy Spirit of God who dwelt temporally in the corrupted flesh typified as sinful body, in regard to the Son of man. When Christ in respect to the Holy Spirit not seen was approached as “good teacher” he gave glory to Him who remains invisible and replied; only God (not seen) is good.
God does not want us to think of Him as having any form. It is the mutual work of the one faith, of one God that worked in respect to the word father, an attribute of God, and another attribute called a Son in perfect submission to one Spirit, the Holy Spirit of God.
Together they brought the peace of God that surpasses all human understanding. This is not a separate peace from a father, and another kind of peace from the Son in respect to two attributes a father and a Son. God cannot make another God .It would have a beginning.
Phi 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Remember he gives us his understanding (“faith”) , it is not of our own heart as an imagination thereof. We are not the source of His faith anymore than if we were the source of one another’s faith. He calls that kind of faith “no faith” being dead in its trespasses and sins without God without a living Hope. ..
Yes are one, not as if they were one, but are.
Looking at the father and son as two attributes of one God works the best when trying to understand the mystery that does surpass all human understanding, as the understanding of God .
Yes, they are things a person does. Jesus, Jehovah is savor. He is the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Do we attribute that work to a lamb? God is not a man or a lamb.
Attributed to one Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy anointing Spirit of one God
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are "one".
The three are one in the same way the father and Son of God are one. He is not one with the Son of man, a creation. The Son of man died his blood was poured into the dust just as any sacrifice. We no longer know Christ after the flesh, he has come, the veil is rent the one demonstration is over. The Son of God an attribute of God cannot die.
The context is I and my the father are one .Not that they will be one if they could have to wait get their thoughts together. Christ always does the will of the father the free will of God who is of one mindand always does wahtsoever his soul pleases.
They are one in intention(belief faith) as well as the work of the one faith, belief of God . His word does not return void, because it cannot. One God, one faith. Faith to include thier works working as one, seeing a belief without works is dead.
God does not have a nature .He is supernatural (without nature, a beginning)He has no flesh as a being, that would make Him a Spirit without form a creation and not the faithful Creator.who by a work of His faith forms that which was not there.
In His Spirit essence he was God. There is simply nothing attributed to the flesh ,which He of his own temporal flesh said it cannot profit .In his outward temporal appearance he refused all worship. He is not a man as us and neither is there a daysman, a person of flesh as an infallible umpire of earth approved of by both man and God. That would describe the Pope or any man that claims to the infallible interpreter, as our teacher on earth .Even the Son of man made no such claim .
We are warned of those who do say we do need a man to teach us. Christ the Holy Spirit of God who dwelt temporally in the corrupted flesh typified as sinful body, in regard to the Son of man. When Christ in respect to the Holy Spirit not seen was approached as “good teacher” he gave glory to Him who remains invisible and replied; only God (not seen) is good.
God does not want us to think of Him as having any form. It is the mutual work of the one faith, of one God that worked in respect to the word father, an attribute of God, and another attribute called a Son in perfect submission to one Spirit, the Holy Spirit of God.
Together they brought the peace of God that surpasses all human understanding. This is not a separate peace from a father, and another kind of peace from the Son in respect to two attributes a father and a Son. God cannot make another God .It would have a beginning.
Phi 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Remember he gives us his understanding (“faith”) , it is not of our own heart as an imagination thereof. We are not the source of His faith anymore than if we were the source of one another’s faith. He calls that kind of faith “no faith” being dead in its trespasses and sins without God without a living Hope. ..
Yes are one, not as if they were one, but are.
Looking at the father and son as two attributes of one God works the best when trying to understand the mystery that does surpass all human understanding, as the understanding of God .
Yes, they are things a person does. Jesus, Jehovah is savor. He is the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Do we attribute that work to a lamb? God is not a man or a lamb.
Attributed to one Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy anointing Spirit of one God
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are "one".
The three are one in the same way the father and Son of God are one. He is not one with the Son of man, a creation. The Son of man died his blood was poured into the dust just as any sacrifice. We no longer know Christ after the flesh, he has come, the veil is rent the one demonstration is over. The Son of God an attribute of God cannot die.
Acts 1:6-7 So when they had come together, they asked Him, “Lord, are You restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or periods that the Father has set by His own authority.”
Spoken by Jesus during His post resurrection appearance to the apostles.
Spoken by Jesus during His post resurrection appearance to the apostles.
Hi Bluto,
Quote from Post 1249:
You still have not addressed the issue of the "Word/Logos" being Jesus Christ Himself which is what I believe and proved from the Scriptures themselves. On the other hand, you believe the "Word/Logos is some other entity that entered into the body/flesh of Jesus Christ. And I also ask you where you came up with this teaching? In short, let's see if we can settle this issue first before moving on to something else.
Response: --- Not a big problem, --- you believe that the Word/Logos was Jesus Christ, so you are settled in your trinitarian position, --- and that is your conviction.
--- And in asking the question of the topic, "Can the trinity be Biblically proven? --- I said, "No, it can't, because none of the language of trinity is in the Scripture." --- Not even words like 'deity' and 'divinity.'
--- I believe what the Scripture says, --- That Jesus was born on earth, that He lived on earth, and that He died on earth. --- And at the point of death, it says in Matthew 27:
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,
52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep (in death) were raised.
--- What happened was that the death of Jesus paid the penalty for sin, not only for the living believers who put their trust in Him, but the saints who were held in the prison of death until Jesus came. --- Satan had power over death until Jesus came and paid the sacrifice by shedding His blood. --- And the veil of the Temple that separated the Holy of Holies from the outer chamber was torn down, opening the Holy of Holies --- the sacred place that the High Priest went lnto once a year to make atonement for the people. --- But it said this in Hebrews 10:
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,
21 and having a High Priest over the house of God,
22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith.
Again in Hebrews 2:
17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
--- And it says that 'He is a High Priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek,' and His office is the new Holy of Holies, or "Prayer Room," which is open to everyone in the heavenly Sanctuary, that the Lord made, in Hebrews 8:
1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
--- So, I believe that Jesus is our High Priest forever, in that Position in heaven.
I believe that, ---but if you want to manipulate the verses in the chapters of Hebrews from 2-10 that say 'Jesus became our High Priest,' --- to make them say something else, --- or that Jesus is in some other position in God's kingdom, --- then that can be your quest.
Quote from Post 1249:
You still have not addressed the issue of the "Word/Logos" being Jesus Christ Himself which is what I believe and proved from the Scriptures themselves. On the other hand, you believe the "Word/Logos is some other entity that entered into the body/flesh of Jesus Christ. And I also ask you where you came up with this teaching? In short, let's see if we can settle this issue first before moving on to something else.
Response: --- Not a big problem, --- you believe that the Word/Logos was Jesus Christ, so you are settled in your trinitarian position, --- and that is your conviction.
--- And in asking the question of the topic, "Can the trinity be Biblically proven? --- I said, "No, it can't, because none of the language of trinity is in the Scripture." --- Not even words like 'deity' and 'divinity.'
--- I believe what the Scripture says, --- That Jesus was born on earth, that He lived on earth, and that He died on earth. --- And at the point of death, it says in Matthew 27:
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,
52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep (in death) were raised.
--- What happened was that the death of Jesus paid the penalty for sin, not only for the living believers who put their trust in Him, but the saints who were held in the prison of death until Jesus came. --- Satan had power over death until Jesus came and paid the sacrifice by shedding His blood. --- And the veil of the Temple that separated the Holy of Holies from the outer chamber was torn down, opening the Holy of Holies --- the sacred place that the High Priest went lnto once a year to make atonement for the people. --- But it said this in Hebrews 10:
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,
21 and having a High Priest over the house of God,
22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith.
Again in Hebrews 2:
17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
--- And it says that 'He is a High Priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek,' and His office is the new Holy of Holies, or "Prayer Room," which is open to everyone in the heavenly Sanctuary, that the Lord made, in Hebrews 8:
1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
--- So, I believe that Jesus is our High Priest forever, in that Position in heaven.
I believe that, ---but if you want to manipulate the verses in the chapters of Hebrews from 2-10 that say 'Jesus became our High Priest,' --- to make them say something else, --- or that Jesus is in some other position in God's kingdom, --- then that can be your quest.