Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

valiant · Nov 5, 2016

God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are, along with the Son,One Being but three persona. The Father and the Son are NOT separate entities, they ARE distinct persona within the One Being.

Your verses do not say otherwise.

valiant · Nov 5, 2016

The Holy Spirit is also the Father of Jesus according to Mt.1:20, Lk.1:35 and Acts 13:33

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The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father of Our LORD Jesus Christ, nor is He the father of Jesus. Nowhere in these Scriptures is that stated. He worked upon Mary so that the everlasting Son could be born in her womb as man..

Quasar92 · Nov 5, 2016

valiant said:

FYI, the Son of God DID NOT exist until in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35! But rather, his pre-incarnate spirit did, as recorded in Jn.1:1-2. You are NEVER going to prove a man made doctrine through God's Word, the Bible, Jesus or any of His disciples. As many renowned Trinitarians and nearly every encyclopedia, including Britannica will tell you!

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Nov 5, 2016

valiant said:

The Scriptures I posted in 1251 refute your above continued denial of them. Which in spite of your desire to make them say what you want them to say! You reveal an affinity of refusing to learn Scriptural fact over that of your pre-conceived belief system!

Quasar92

valiant · Nov 5, 2016

Quasar92 said:

The eternal Son DID exist in eternity. e.g. John 3.16-17; 8.58; 5.17-18, 23. It was in His humanity that He was the son of Mary.

You mean the eternal Spirit of the Son. It states He was the very stuff of Godhood.

The Scripture teaches that God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are one God. And I have proved from the Scriptures that the Father and the Son are coeternal.

YOU have to claim that Matth 28.19 is bogus even though not a single manuscript from earliest times agrees with you.

valiant · Nov 5, 2016

Quasar92 said:

I quote again. 'The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father of Our LORD Jesus Christ, nor is He the father of Jesus. Nowhere in these Scriptures is that stated. He worked upon Mary so that the everlasting Son could be born in her womb as man..'

show me one New Testament Scripture that says the Holy Spirit is the father of Jesus,

valiant · Nov 5, 2016

Quasar92 said:

The Holy Spirit is mentioned separately from the Father. Deut 32.6 refers to the Father not to the Holy Spirit. The Father sent the Holy Spirit to come upon Mary and provide a human body conjoined wit the everlasting Son

This was prophesied by God the Father.

Quasar92 · Nov 5, 2016

valiant said:

Proverbs 8:22-36 and Col.1:15 refute your above assumptions and denial of the Scriptural facts refuting your belief system!

Quasar92

valiant · Nov 5, 2016

Quasar92 said:

Only because you twist them to mean what you want them to say

NOT when read properly in context

Quasar92 · Nov 5, 2016

valiant said:

Are you a father, valiant? If so, who are you? The same is true with every man who has produced children of his own! They have the TITLE of father, in the very same way God, who is the Holy Spirit, according to the Scriptures I posted in 1251, has the TITLE of Father, as recorded in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35! You can argue until Jesus returns, and you aren't ever going to alter those facts! Capiche!

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Nov 5, 2016

valiant said:

And just how are those passages of Scriptures I posted in 1251 twisted and out of context, genius?

Quasat92

garee · Nov 5, 2016

Same voice of God who remains supernatural without beginning and end , without mother or father.He is not a man as us.He is not a creation.

The Word became flesh, it was typified as sinful . The Son of man like all flesh was corrupted in a process of decay and dying.

The spiritual Word did not become flesh. It is His Spirit as that not seen that He poured on the flesh just as promised as that not seen, the eternal.

Sinful flesh as a demonstration was needed to put away sin in the flesh. A theophany like used with Melchisedec as a vision of a spiritual being is of our eternal priest remaining continual a priest from eternity past to the future .

Spirit that has no rudiment of this world, as created substance could not be used to condemn sin in the flesh .Flesh was needed to condemn sin in the flesh..

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, “condemned sin” in the flesh:

He had a different resurrected body that would be used until he vanished out of sight. We no longer know the Spirit of Christ after the flesh .He has come, the veil was rent, it is finished. Scriptures informs us he would come in the flesh not stay in it.

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, "yet now" henceforth know we him no more.

Blood is used as a metaphor throughout the scriptures .It represents the giving of spirit life not seen . Literal blood is not something we literally drink or eat as if it could enter our soul quickening it .

Literal blood is used in parables to represent that the Son of man, speaking of the temporal flesh in His Holy Spirit.

God gave spirit life in jeopardy of His own Spirit as he drank the wrath that the father poured out on him in the garden. As if it was blood. . it is reflected in and old testament parable .The blood of sacrifices like that of the Son of man must be poured out into the ground from where it was taken to indicate spirit life was given.

In that parable He uses three a number metaphor ti indicate the end of the matter to represent Christ not seen. You could say He sent a David a thirst for hearing the word of God the gospel of his salvation, as the well in Bethlehem, meaning the house of bread a city in Judah, the birthplace of David from Judah just as who Christ as the Son of man came from the tribe of Judah .

And David was then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines was then in Bethlehem.And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which is by the gate! And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the LORD. And he said, Be it far from me, O LORD, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men. 2Sa 23:14

The same kind of parable found in using three mighty men, in Daniel.

He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. Like the Son of God,Daniel 3:25

The Son of God, not seen, is the Son of man in the temporal flesh, as that seen .

valiant · Nov 5, 2016

Quasar92 said:

Not in the same way as God the Father. God the Father has 'produced' no children. The titles of Father and Son indicate the closeness of relationship

bluto · Nov 5, 2016

valiant said:

Not true qusar. Give me just one example of a son that does not share the same nature as its father? Read John 3:16 where Jesus is the ONLY begotten son of God His Father.

In Him,
bluto

valiant · Nov 5, 2016

Quasar92 said:

Proverbs 8, as with Proverbs 1-9 is speaking of God 's wisdom, and she is a SHE. Only a fool does not know the difference between He and she. Nor was God's wisdom created. She is eternal. Or are you going to argue that God in eternity had no wisdom?

The title firstborn used of Jesus was used by the Greeks to indicate the eternal wisdom. It thus indicated to his readers 'eternity'. but I don't expect your knowledge extends that far,

valiant · Nov 5, 2016

Quasar92 said:

God the Father was Father long before the earthly birth of Jesus. you just try to invent things from your limited knowledge.

jaybird88 · Nov 5, 2016

valiant said:

and there is not a single text pre rome to support the passage.
however we do have the rest of the NT books and see the 12, who were personally trained by Jesus, never baptized this way.

Placid · Nov 5, 2016

Hi Popeye,

Quote from Post 1245:
---
The heavenly Son of God was chosen from among others and anointed and called God. --- "Your throne o God is forever and ever."
??

that part i highlighted in red is absolutely false,you literally made that up.

You need to get out of the "explaining Jesus" business.

Response: --- I know that when we get off of the regular Scripture verses that are used, it may be unsettling, but the whole Bible is to be used, --- so to understand some subjects we need to use the method in Isaiah 28:

10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little."

I started another subject in Post 1248 which deals with the 'origin of sin,' and this should answer your statement in the next Post.

valiant · Nov 5, 2016

jaybird88 said:

They baptised in the NAME of Jesus which was YHWH, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There ARE no texts pre-Rome. The church in Rome was founded by Pentecost returnees before the New Testament was begun..

The Apostolic writings all assert the deity of Jesus.

Jesus said, 'That all may honour the Son AS they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son (as they honour the Father), does not honour the Father Who sent Him.' John 5.23

“For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself” John 5.26

Jesus answered them, “MY Father is working still and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God John 5.17-18

“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” John 8.58

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father. John 14.9

“And this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent – and now, Father, glorify Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17.5)

John said, 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was face to face with God, and What God was the Word was, – and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1.1, 14).

The risen Jesus said, “Baptising them in the (one) Name (YHWH) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28.19

And for us there is ONE GOD, the Father, from Whom are all things and for Whom we exist, and ONE LORD through Whom are all things and through Whom we exist 1 Corinthians 8.6 (in contrast with the many gods and lords)

He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstBORN before the whole of creation Colossians 1.15

In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form Colossians 2.9

Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2.13

When the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared, – which He poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Saviour Titus 3.4, 6

In the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ – of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Peter 1.1 ,11 (exactly parallel in the Greek).

Who being the outshining of His glory and the exact representation of His substance Heb 1.3

He is the SON in contrast to all angels Heb 1.4 following.

Thomas called Him, “my LORD and my God”. John 20.28

Placid · Nov 5, 2016

To continue from Post 1248:
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
This statement says that the sin of pride was 'found' in this one who had obtained the high position as the leader or 'the Lucifer.'
--- His sin of pride led to self will and self exaltation, --- He said in Isaiah 14:
"I will" five times, --- and the fifth one being, "I will be be like the Most High."
He had persuaded many to follow him, because they all had the ability to choose, --- so there was a great separation among the Cherubim and those who favored Satan, the adversary of God, were cast out with him.
　
It speaks of this in the Book of Revelation 12:
3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.

--- This is understood to be the unholy angels that were cast out with Satan, and became the 'evil spirits' that are servants of Satan and roam the earth. These former angels were clothed with brightness, but they lost their glorious spiritual bodies and were cast out of heaven and down to the earth as 'disembodied spirits.' --- Therefore, they seek a body in which to dwell.
Jesus cast out many evil spirits, and this is still done by Christians today who cast them out, and down into hell, in Jesus' name.
　
Here is an example of evil spirits occupying a body. --- It is unclear whether the spirit was ordered out, or whether threatened by the person, and left, but it said it 'went out' of this person, and it looked for another body, in Luke 11:
24 "When the unclean spirit comes out of a person, it roams through waterless places in search [of a place] of rest; and not finding any, it says, ‘I will go back to my house (person) from which I came.’
25 And when it comes, it finds the place swept and put in order. --- (But not occupied by a good spirit.)
26 Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in [the person] and live there; and the last state of that person becomes worse than the first."

But our interest is not with the ones cast out, but of those obedient to God who were holy angels, who loved God, and were loved by Him.
--- So the holy and righteous angels needed a new Leader. They were all severly tested and were found faithful, so there had to be a choosing among them, a new appoinment as the Anointed Cherub.
They were the order of angels called the 'sons of God,' and it was up to God's choosing for the Anointed one who would be appointed His Son. --- and would be given 'the wisdom of the Logos, the creative power of God,' and because of Him having this creative power, He was called God, but subordinate to God the Father. --- And in John 1, the Word is identified as "With God," and the One "Through whom all things were made"

And the Word was chosen because of the qualifications it gives in Psalm 45:
6 "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

7 'You love righteousness and hate wickedness;'
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."

Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

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