The King James Only Debate

[p_rehbein]

right! the Bible sometimes quotes people who are mixed up

JOB 42:7 After the LORD had said those things to Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz from Teman, "I'm very angry with you and your two friends because
you didn't speak what is right
about me as my servant Job has done.


DANIEL 3:25 The king replied, "But look, I see four men. They're untied, walking in the middle of the fire, and unharmed. The fourth one looks like
a son of the gods."

Hmm...........

My Bible says:

25) He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.


That's different from yours

 

[Stephen63]

No the KJV is the preserved infallible authorized word of God and if someone wishes to use another Bible then so be it but do not claim it is the "authorized version" unlike the KJV.

WHO "authorized" the KJV? With actual facts, not verbal phrases, please.

 

[John146]

This is all you can say in response to my clear questions? Weak.

So again

1) how exactly not having for example the book of Ester will make me corrupted or not a complete Christian?

2)
2 Kings 8:26
Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he became king.

2 Chronicles 22:2
Ahaziah was forty-two years old when he became king.

How exactly will this make me a corrupted Christian? How not knowing his right age makes me incomplete?

Please,try without "hoho", "muslim argument" etc.

What you are missing is the truth of the word of God. I have something certain, something 100% trustworthy to offer the world from beginning to end. I can tell the world that you can trust my Bible, all of it! Every fact, every story, every word!

 

[NotmebutHim]

I like the KJV; I think it is one of the best translations.

My issue though, is that some of the more vocal KJV-only advocates say that ALL (not just some, but ALL) other translations are part of a big deception to rid the world of God's Word (or at least to water it down). Now, there are some translations which are borne out of deceit, but definitely not all of them. They don't just assert that all other translations are merely flawed; they go as far as to say that whoever uses anything besides the KJV is following the devil.

BTW, I use the NKJV for study and for quoting Scripture.

 

[gb9]

What you are missing is the truth of the word of God. I have something certain, something 100% trustworthy to offer the world from beginning to end. I can tell the world that you can trust my Bible, all of it! Every fact, every story, every word!

great. but a person could also 100% trust the e.s.b , the new k.j.v. .... you know, modern English. the k.j.v. is just a translation, not to be worshiped.

 

[KJV1611]

This is all you can say in response to my clear questions? Weak.

So again

1) how exactly not having for example the book of Ester will make me corrupted or not a complete Christian?

2)
2 Kings 8:26
Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he became king.

2 Chronicles 22:2
Ahaziah was forty-two years old when he became king.

How exactly will this make me a corrupted Christian? How not knowing his right age makes me incomplete?

Please,try without "hoho", "muslim argument" etc.

Trofimus your view is a perfect example of how not having trust in your bible affects the believer. Your lack of belief in an inerrant bible has caused you to throw away the added information given in the KJV Old Testament.

Keys to understanding New Testament passages are found in the Old Testament, both Testaments are required to understand either one of them. That's why the bible says 1) line upon line 2) line upon line, 1) precept upon precept 2) precept upon precept. I've read the KJV long enough to know that something repeated twice means Old Testament New Testament.

The New Testament writers aren't qouting the Old Testament, they are paraphrasing and adding more information so that you can fully understand the passage. You are dismissing this valuable info as a manuscript error.

 

[KJV1611]

I like the KJV; I think it is one of the best translations.

My issue though, is that some of the more vocal KJV-only advocates say that ALL (not just some, but ALL) other translations are part of a big deception to rid the world of God's Word (or at least to water it down). Now, there are some translations which are borne out of deceit, but definitely not all of them. They don't just assert that all other translations are merely flawed; they go as far as to say that whoever uses anything besides the KJV is following the devil.

BTW, I use the NKJV for study and for quoting Scripture.

Good point, but how do you determine which one is perverted too much. At what point does a version become a bad bible that should be stayed away from?

 

[John146]

great. but a person could also 100% trust the e.s.b , the new k.j.v. .... you know, modern English. the k.j.v. is just a translation, not to be worshiped.

Can you trust all those other versions to be 100% accurately in all truth? Every word, every fact, every verse? And stop with the whole worshipping thing. I'm a Bible believer! I one of those people who actually believe the Bible I have is the infallible word of truth.

 

[nowyouseem033]

Good point, but how do you determine which one is perverted too much. At what point does a version become a bad bible that should be stayed away from?

I would say when the words convey a different meaning of the text and context given. One is able to detect a deficiency by way of going to the original greek and manuscript evidence.

 

[Utah]

Hello all

As a supporter of the King James Version (Authorized Version) I wanted to put into perspective the primary issues in this debate. For those who suggest the argument is a superficial one, based on the style it is written in compared to the style used in the NIV, New American Standard edition, or other - you have it totally wrong.

Don't get me wrong, the old English is beautiful, but this debate is centered on the family of manuscripts which has come down through the apostolic churches as the foundation for its scholarship - Versions such as the NIV and others are based on manuscripts of unknown authorship and origin that cannot be linked to any churches. The primary manuscripts that form their so called "Critical Text" are known as Sinanticus and Vacticanus. Now modern scholars like Bart Erhman, James White & Daniel Wallace reject church texts in favor of these manuscripts which calls into questions scripture passages which they state were not part of the original writings of the apostles such as the last 12 verses of Mark, The women in Adultery in Johns Gospel as well as others.

The awesome short videos provide witness testimony from the second century on the received texts of the apostolic churches against the gnostics who claim to be in possession of the true manuscripts. Let the debate begin.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqjsB-lvDBWXDB-DYVLt-Zg

Please list three examples of profound differences the KJV has with other versions of Scripture. For example, and this is an analogy, "I can do all things through Christ," as compared to, "I can do many things through Christ." Thank you.

 

[nowyouseem033]

Can you trust all those other versions to be 100% accurately in all truth? Every word, every fact, every verse? And stop with the whole worshipping thing. I'm a Bible believer! I one of those people who actually believe the Bible I have is the infallible word of truth.

Yes, because none of the modern versions present a fault of distortion to render the text inadequate and possibly heretical. To be sure there are better versions to explain the great truths of God but that is in its explanation. The truth of God is found in all versions because it does not affect the outcome of the direction or content of the text. So if it doesnt pose any threat to a major distortion of a text then you can trust the bible, wether it be esv or niv. (obviously the new world translation etc do not count as they are not on the basis of orthodox christianity at all)

 

[John146]

Yes, because none of the modern versions present a fault of distortion to render the text inadequate and possibly heretical. To be sure there are better versions to explain the great truths of God but that is in its explanation. The truth of God is found in all versions because it does not affect the outcome of the direction or content of the text. So if it doesnt pose any threat to a major distortion of a text then you can trust the bible, wether it be esv or niv. (obviously the new world translation etc do not count as they are not on the basis of orthodox christianity at all)

Do you think that logic is acceptable in the eyes of the world? We need something certain to point the world to, absolute truth from start to finish. The word of God needs to be trusted. Can you not trust God's word? If parts of it cannot be trusted, why should anyone believe the so called true parts of it?

You cannot trust the ESV or NIV. They do not contain all the truth. One change of a word can change an entire doctrine.

 

[John146]

Please list three examples of profound differences the KJV has with other versions of Scripture. For example, and this is an analogy, "I can do all things through Christ," as compared to, "I can do many things through Christ." Thank you.

Galatians 2:16:

KJV - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

ESV - yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Huge difference! The believer is justified by Christ's faith not our own individual faith. My justification is dependent upon Christ alone. Though my individual faith waivers, Christ's faith never waivers!

Philippians 3:9

KJV - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

ESV - and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

Again, the faith OF Christ and faith IN Christ is two totally different doctrinal beliefs. It's all through Scripture.

 

[nowyouseem033]

Do you think that logic is acceptable in the eyes of the world? We need something certain to point the world to, absolute truth from start to finish. The word of God needs to be trusted. Can you not trust God's word? If parts of it cannot be trusted, why should anyone believe the so called true parts of it?

You cannot trust the ESV or NIV. They do not contain all the truth. One change of a word can change an entire doctrine.

Yes you can trust the Word of God, all of it. The reasons again are simple. There are no major distortions within the modern versions to render it false. You can trust the ESV or NIV because they do contain all truth. A word change does affect the point of the text unless it directly, purposefully and unequivocally goes against the content of the text, the context and the intentionality. Which none of the modern versions do.

 

[Dan_473]

Hmm...........

My Bible says:

25) [FONT=&]He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; [/FONT]and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.


That's different from yours [FONT=&][/FONT]

yes, either rendering is valid.

similar situation here

DANIEL 4:8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my God, and in whom is

the spirit of the holy gods:

and before him I told the dream, saying,

 

[Dan_473]

great. but a person could also 100% trust the e.s.b , the new k.j.v. .... you know, modern English. the k.j.v. is just a translation, not to be worshiped.

worshipping it is a danger

2 KINGS 18:4 He removed the high places and broke the pillars and cut down the Asherah. And he broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the people of Israel had
made offerings to it
(it was called Nehushtan).

 

[Dan_473]

Do you think that logic is acceptable in the eyes of the world? We need something certain to point the world to, absolute truth from start to finish. The word of God needs to be trusted. Can you not trust God's word? If parts of it cannot be trusted, why should anyone believe the so called true parts of it?

You cannot trust the ESV or NIV. They do not contain all the truth. One change of a word can change an entire doctrine.

this is what is
of first importance:

that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1 CORINTHIANS 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,

 

[Dan_473]

we are not orphans, we didn't need to wait until 1611 for Jesus to come to us.
JOHN 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

 

[John146]

this is what is
of first importance:

that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1 CORINTHIANS 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,

Yes, but can that verse be trusted if there's other verses that can't be trusted? That's the question of the world.

 

[trofimus]

What you are missing is the truth of the word of God. I have something certain, something 100% trustworthy to offer the world from beginning to end. I can tell the world that you can trust my Bible, all of it! Every fact, every story, every word!

So neither you are able to explain exactly how I am made corrupted by not knowing the age of some king or not having (its only example) the book of Ester?