what has been fulfilled?

zone · Nov 21, 2016

no.
in fact, I've just walked through a door, seen something I can't unsee. it's seventy AD (my number keys are stuck).
I'm just putting it together, so from here on in, fair notice that's where I'm looking.
I've looked everywhere else, and it's leading (at least in part) to this.
I need help.

PlainWord · Nov 21, 2016

prove-all said:

You do realize that most of this is figurative language, right?

ZEEK · Nov 21, 2016

notuptome said:

[FONT=&quot]1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants[a] what must soon take place; he made[b] it known by sending his angel to his servant[/FONT][FONT=&quot] John, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.

From God to Jesus to the Angel to John to Us.

[/FONT]

zone · Nov 21, 2016

ZEEK said:

I don't go for the later dates.
I thought his ascension was 40 days after Resurrection.

PlainWord · Nov 21, 2016

zone said:

LOL. I've struggled mightily with that whole millennium thingy for many, many years but you helped me get past it. You see, I don't like it if Revelation seems to suggest something different or contrary with earlier, clearer teachings. Your arguments made me refocus on the issue then finally I got it.

Rev 20:4-6 isn't discussing a 1000 year reign on earth after the Second Coming... Not at all. John saw souls. Souls are in heaven, beheaded people's souls, more specifically. Thus Christ's 1000 year reign is going on right now in heaven. I digress.

To your immediately point. In my view AD 70 fulfillment wasn't even discussed by Christ at the Olivet. He touched on it briefly in Mat 24:1-2. Then there was a gap of many hours before they went to the Mount of Olives. They had been discussing the Resurrection if you look back. Anyway, to me, Jesus answers the question and gives signs of the end of the age and His coming, ALL OF WHICH will be witnessed by the last generation. The attack upon Israel which begins when the Abomination of Desolation is set up, is the attack of Gog in Eze 38. This attack lasts < 45 days and truly will be the worst ever seen in history to Israel.

God's Wrath comes in response and is NOT the Great Tribulation. The GT is NOT global, it is aimed squarely at Israel. This is why, "those in Judea are to flee" and why "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies..." This was NOT AD 70 because Titus destroyed the temple, he didn't set anything abominable up. Besides, Daniel makes clear that it isn't the temple (sanctuary) that is defiled, it is the FORTRESS or wall. It is the Wailing Wall!! Thus, future to us.

ZEEK · Nov 21, 2016

It was not Jesus who executed judgement on Jerusalem Zone. It was God the Father.

Jesus went to God's throne. God's throne is Heaven.

[FONT=&quot]Acts 5 31: God exalted him at his [/FONT]right hand as Leader and Savior that he might give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 10:12
[FONT=&quot]But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, “he sat down at the [/FONT]right hand of God,”

Hebrews 1:13
[FONT=&quot]But to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my [/FONT]right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?

Once God had judged Judah and Jerusalem, then Christ ascended to the Throne Of Israel, aka the Throne Of David.

ZEEK · Nov 21, 2016

That is why the Preterists get in such a muddle, they do not understand that the Father, not Jesus, executed the judgement of Jerusalem.

zone · Nov 21, 2016

PlainWord said:

aww dude, cool.
major pressure release with the dumping of dispensati....wait.

PlainWord said:

nah man. you gotta put down the futurism totally. it just doesn't work.

PlainWord said:

sorry plain, I discarded all that long ago. it doesn't work.

BUT - I feel a shunning coming on

< haha....for the first time, I'm ready (and need to) FULLY and openly examine preterism - have skated around and over it at times. but now I have to read the NT all over again with a different view.
can't say what i'll come out with - I already have a million questions, but if the answers are there one way or another. if the scriptures reconcile this way so be it. gotta know one way or another.

what I was surprised by was that it turned out to be a GREAT JOY to see in focus (details not withstanding - I'm a newbie all over again LOL)

in short, bear with me and don't forsake me. i'll share what I learn, good or bad.
I wonder why I haven't done this before now (fear?). pretty sad because it's terribly exciting and amazing.
have to let things gel. maybe i'll move over here if I have updates (changes of mind):

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/144457-have-you-ever-changed-your-mind.html

dunno. help. come with me Plain. let's see what happens.

zone · Nov 21, 2016

ZEEK said:

hmmm.....NOT Jesus? Jesus said He would. anyway. it's a distinction without one.
anyways, I'm on a different track right now. hmmm.
I gotta look at "end of the world" (certainly no millennium junk) passages again in context. like...this earth, end of death and satan etc.
excuse me, I'm thinking out loud which is irritating.
sorry

zone · Nov 21, 2016

PlainWord said:

LOL. I've struggled mightily with that whole millennium thingy for many, many years but you helped me get past it. You see, I don't like it if Revelation seems to suggest something different or contrary with earlier, clearer teachings. Your arguments made me refocus on the issue then finally I got it.

Rev 20:4-6 isn't discussing a 1000 year reign on earth after the Second Coming... Not at all. John saw souls. Souls are in heaven, beheaded people's souls, more specifically. Thus Christ's 1000 year reign is going on right now in heaven. I digress.

To your immediately point. In my view AD 70 fulfillment wasn't even discussed by Christ at the Olivet. He touched on it briefly in Mat 24:1-2. Then there was a gap of many hours before they went to the Mount of Olives. They had been discussing the Resurrection if you look back. Anyway, to me, Jesus answers the question and gives signs of the end of the age and His coming, ALL OF WHICH will be witnessed by the last generation. The attack upon Israel which begins when the Abomination of Desolation is set up, is the attack of Gog in Eze 38. This attack lasts < 45 days and truly will be the worst ever seen in history to Israel.

God's Wrath comes in response and is NOT the Great Tribulation. The GT is NOT global, it is aimed squarely at Israel. This is why, "those in Judea are to flee" and why "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies..." This was NOT AD 70 because Titus destroyed the temple, he didn't set anything abominable up. Besides, Daniel makes clear that it isn't the temple (sanctuary) that is defiled, it is the FORTRESS or wall. It is the Wailing Wall!! Thus, future to us.

hey plain:

am about to read this:

DISSERTATIONS

ON

THE PROPHECIES

WHICH HAVE
REMARKABLY BEEN FULFILLED..

Thomas Newton D.D.
LATE LORD BISHOP OF BRISTOL.

LONDON: 1754

Thomas Newton : Dissertations on the Prophecies Which Have Remarkably Been Fulfilled, And Are Being Fulfilled (1754)Free Online Books @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism and Preterist Eschatology

PlainWord · Nov 21, 2016

Wasn't a dispensationalist

as in I didn't believe in 7 dispensations. I do believe in earth ages. I believe that pre-flood was a different earth age from the one we are in now, for instance. I also believe that when the Lord returns, a new earth age will be ushered in.

I will once you show me something. Jesus invokes Daniel here, right?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Daniel uses the term or phrase "Abomination of Desolation" just twice. Therefore Jesus had to be referencing one of both of these below passages. Here they are:

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

For this to be a circa AD 70 event, please answer these questions specifically:

1. How did Titus defile Herod's Fortress Wall, the protective wall of the sanctuary (temple)? I know he tore most of it down but what did he do to defile it?

2. What "Abomination" was set up at this remaining piece of fortress wall in AD 73-74?

3. We knew sacrifices ended when the temple was sacked. So tell me from that moment, when the daily sacrifices were taken away 1,290 days were to take place until the Abomination of Desolation was set up. Can you relate something abominable happening 1,290 days after the Temple was sacked?

4. 45 days later (at day 1,335) from when the wall was defiled ending daily "sacrifices" or prayers, what blessing came to those who waited?

I will be beyond thrilled if you can answer these 4 questions and have them fit your view, because I've tried and tried.

PlainWord · Nov 21, 2016

Awesome!! I'm down to go along for the ride. I still have some unanswered questions. This is tough. But I think I understand more now than I ever had. I was pre-trib until about 5 years ago. Once I let that utter nonsense go, things really started to come into focus. Another MAJOR MAJOR breakthrough was understanding that ISLAM is Mystery Babylon. That was a huge help. If you don't understand who our biggest spiritual enemy is on this earth, kinda hard to know from which direction the arrows will come.

What did you think of my Two Witnesses analysis? I had to figure out what to do with Ezekiel's 40-47 so-called "Millennial Temple." Finally was able to put that to rest which opened up Rev 11.

zone · Nov 21, 2016

PlainWord said:

deal.

PlainWord said:

titus and the romans would have defiled the temple just by being there.
the herods defiled the temple repeatedly.

PlainWord said:

I have no idea where the wall comes in.
the romans put their symbols and icons all over the place.
apparently sacrificed stuff in the temple as well.

PlainWord said:

I looked into this a couple years ago, and one source had it nailed. (in history).
but I lost the page. i'll look again.

PlainWord said:

I think it was their opening (there was a pause in the siege) to get out for the last time.
i'll look for the source. maybe.

I tired myself out already this morning - LOL!

PlainWord said:

let's keep asking those questions and looking for answers.
remind me if I forget to find my sources.
z

zone · Nov 21, 2016

PlainWord said:

Awesome!! I'm down to go along for the ride. I still have some unanswered questions. This is tough. But I think I understand more now than I ever had. I was pre-trib until about 5 years ago. Once I let that utter nonsense go, things really started to come into focus. Another MAJOR MAJOR breakthrough was understanding that ISLAM is Mystery Babylon. That was a huge help. If you don't understand who our biggest spiritual enemy is on this earth, kinda hard to know from which direction the arrows will come.

What did you think of my Two Witnesses analysis? I had to figure out what to do with Ezekiel's 40-47 so-called "Millennial Temple." Finally was able to put that to rest which opened up Rev 11.

I love hearing about it plain.
but islam is absolutely an antichrist enemy.
but it's not in scripture.

ZEEK · Nov 21, 2016

It is an interesting detail PlainWord.

The Hebrew word you are focussing on is 'ma`owz',

which is translated inthe KJV as strength, i.e. the Strong Temple.

(The 'fortress' translation seems a bit less popular).

When Daniel prophecied the Second Temple was yet to be built. It was finished 515BC I believe.

When the Romans came in, the entire temple mount had been reconstructed by Herod, and greatly expanded and fortified, I believe. Therefore it makes sense for Daniel to show that the third temple and not the second temple is in view, by calling it the strong temple.

PlainWord · Nov 21, 2016

zone said:

Please let me know your thoughts when you finish reading. I don't want too many ideas of others to influence me. So much noise out there. When I think I need help on an issue, then I go looking to see what others have written or think.

I still have a couple of questions to ask you. Debating if I should do it in open forum or privately. I think they are right up your alley.

PlainWord · Nov 21, 2016

zone said:

You might want to rethink that statement. After all, it is called "Babylon" for a reason. What is the faith of today's Babylonians?

If you haven't watched this before, I recommend. I don't agree with several things but the history of the false religion set forth was eye opening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY20IFaWlsQ

zone · Nov 21, 2016

PlainWord said:

Please let me know your thoughts when you finish reading. I don't want too many ideas of others to influence me. So much noise out there. When I think I need help on an issue, then I go looking to see what others have written or think.

I still have a couple of questions to ask you. Debating if I should do it in open forum or privately. I think they are right up your alley.

messaging you

PlainWord · Nov 21, 2016

You have to really understand the genesis of Islam, where it gets its roots and how it is that the Beast of the Sea carries it. Rome is dead and gone and not coming back. It isn't Rome that's mentioned in the Last Days anyway, it's the ten horns which arise from Rome in Dan 7 that are important. Keep in mind, Rome split it two. Western Rome has 5 toes, England, Spain, France, Germany and Italy. These 5 nations have dominated for the past 1,000 years in Europe. Then you have the other leg of the statue, Eastern Rome, i.e., the Byzantine Empire which was finally defeated ending the Roman Empire in 1,299.

The Ottomans became the most brutal and vicious beast empire of them all, far far worse than Rome. Rome killed maybe 13 million during their time as the beast empire. The Ottomans killed 50 million Christians alone. These Christians are the ones seen in Rev 7 as the Great Multitude. This head of the beast went away in 1922, but is trying to make a come back now in the region of the lion, leopard, bear (Rev 13). Nero is not found in Rev 13 as some think.

zone · Nov 21, 2016

I've done the islam thing.
it's not in the bible.
other than being antichrist, like all non believers I reckon

spent months on a blog thingee that had islam pegged and went to greeeeeeeeeaaaat lengths to prove it, but turned out to be fraudulent and bogus. of course. cuz it ain't written. the guy took the leopard (Greece) and made it islam etc etc etc

what has been fulfilled?

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