YHVH + Jesus + Holy Spirit

[James_Steven]

Hello fellow Believers,

I would like to address the oft brought up subject of the trinity of God.

First we should consider that the word God is a generic word, not in the original
hebrew bible, but rather added later in the english bibles.

This has caused some consternation in modern Christianity.

But made simple the word God should be thought of as three personalities.

YHVH - Jesus - Holy Spirit

Now we can say God and mean Jesus or The Holy Spirit,
such as God within us. And there is no rule that we should only say God and
mean YHVH or any particular of the triune.

Sometimes people say -
"Who then was Jesus praying to when he prayed?" Simple, he was praying to
YHVH.

Its really as simple as that, we can get into the technicalities of
definition from hebrew to english and proper names. But for the sake of simplicity
thats it.

I will add some biblical references to support this, as should anyone if they
desire to make biblical comments that people may disagree with. So you can see I'm
not making "Wild assertions."

John 14:9 - "Jesus saith unto him, have I been so long time with you, and
yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;
and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

2 Cor. 4:4 - "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them
which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the
image of God, should shine unto them."

Col. 1:15 - "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word,
and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

There my friends.

 

[phil36]

Hello fellow Believers,

I would like to address the oft brought up subject of the trinity of God.

First we should consider that the word God is a generic word, not in the original
hebrew bible, but rather added later in the english bibles.

This has caused some consternation in modern Christianity.

But made simple the word God should be thought of as three personalities.

YHVH - Jesus - Holy Spirit

Now we can say God and mean Jesus or The Holy Spirit,
such as God within us. And there is no rule that we should only say God and
mean YHVH or any particular of the triune.

Sometimes people say -
"Who then was Jesus praying to when he prayed?" Simple, he was praying to
YHVH.

Its really as simple as that, we can get into the technicalities of
definition from hebrew to english and proper names. But for the sake of simplicity
thats it.

I will add some biblical references to support this, as should anyone if they
desire to make biblical comments that people may disagree with. So you can see I'm
not making "Wild assertions."

John 14:9 - "Jesus saith unto him, have I been so long time with you, and
yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;
and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

2 Cor. 4:4 - "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them
which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the
image of God, should shine unto them."

Col. 1:15 - "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word,
and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

There my friends.

That is why in the English versions you Have Lord,but also Lord all in small capitals. However I am not sure exactly what your polemic or to what you think the outcome will be?

Phil

 

[James_Steven]

@Phil
I have been in chat and hear people espouse that Jesus is not God and leave it as that,
from people who are clearly believers. So I am not making an argument persay.
and what is the final result?
That is indeed a mystery

 

[phil36]

on the boards here or in the chatroom? must admit I am never in the Chat room, once in a blue moon.

Phil

 

[James_Steven]

I have seen one post on the forums here that denies this and heard it a few times in chat.

 

[imoss]

James there has been alot of attacks to the faith in these forums lately. There have been attacks on the diety of Christ and attacks on Christ being the only way to the Father. These attacks are agressive and YES indeed some do profess to be saved. Glad to see you here, welcome to cc.

 

[disciplesofthecross]

If a person denies the deity of Christ, they simply do not know Christ...

 

[wattie]

I always thought of the trinity in terms of 3 seperate beings with one kind of unity of mind.. but then I looked at that a bit deeper and came to some serious issues with that.

The trouble being.. if they are seperate and each one is completely divine.. then that is 3 Gods!! Starts looking like Polytheism. So I talked to my pastor about it and he said well..

a better representation is not to have them seperate at all.. but all equal expressions of one being.. one God. So when you see Jesus giving eternal life in scripture.. the Father and the Holy Spirit are doing this aswell. When Jesus is speaking to the churches in Revelation.. this is also the Holy Spirit.. etc etc.. there are alot of verses like this.

So when you come to Jesus talking to the Father.. this is like one being communicating with Himself. If we can do it.. and we are made in His image.. then there should be no problem with this concept. Like the mind communicating with the body.. or spirit communicating with the mind.

Anyway.. I don really have an issue with seperating them out into 3 seperate beings.. as long as each is equally divine. Once you make the Holy Spirit or Jesus lesser than the Father.. or any of the 3 lesser than the other.. then you are not talking Christian theology.

 

[disciplesofthecross]

...and we are made in His likeness. We are a SPIRIT, with a SOUL, in a BODY, and yet we are just ONE person!

 

[James_Steven]

@wattie

The problem arises simply in terms of definition, the hebrew text refers to God or Gods as Elohim meaning at least three beings.

When we try to use the word god to encompass this it falls short, because the word god implies singular.

As I said in the post if we think of God as all three or any one it becomes easier to understand.

However that is not to say they are equal God YHVH is clearly above, as the bible says the heaven is his throne

and the earth his footstool, also that Jesus is in the bosom of God.

Also note that YHVH is a spirit, Jesus is the physical representation of YHVH.

Finally, The Holy Spirit is a spirit.

 

[loveschild]

Jesus is God, the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. 3 in 1. 1+1+1=God
There is only one way to the Father and that is thr Jesus.
Jesus died for us and one day soon all knees will bow!
God bless you all!

 

[wattie]

@wattie

The problem arises simply in terms of definition, the hebrew text refers to God or Gods as Elohim meaning at least three beings.

When we try to use the word god to encompass this it falls short, because the word god implies singular.

As I said in the post if we think of God as all three or any one it becomes easier to understand.

However that is not to say they are equal God YHVH is clearly above, as the bible says the heaven is his throne

and the earth his footstool, also that Jesus is in the bosom of God.

Also note that YHVH is a spirit, Jesus is the physical representation of YHVH.

Finally, The Holy Spirit is a spirit.

Weeeell.. yes the word Eloheim is plural meaning more than two.. but is defined as one by the context of the verses around it. I.E.. there is one God and no other beside Him.

So therefore it becomes one being with 3 expressions.

But seriously, Jesus being lesser than the Father? Jesus gives eternal life.. just as the Father does.. Jesus had the authority to carry out the Father's work. Jesus claimed to be the one who spoke to Abram.. there is so many more parts to this.. where they are on the same level.

Anyway.. believe what you will.. I believe Jesus is co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit as one being expressing Himself three ways.

These verses are about Jesus speaking-

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

not to mention:

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

and

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

So the point being.. Jesus is no lesser God.. He is as great and as powerful as the Father.. is with the Father as one being.. with the Holy Spirit.

God is a Spirit.. are you going to tell me.. that is not the Holy Spirit?

 

[James_Steven]

@wattie

Hmm, you bring up valid points. And I sense we are not debating against each other.
As far as the point about Jesus being equal with God, I am reevaluating my position
because there is a bible verse that supports it:

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Also
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

So I guess thinking of Yahweh as the father brings me to think that he is above.

Finally
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

That does not say that God and the Holy Spirit are the same spirit, I will study this detail a bit more..

 

[QuestionTime]

YHVH - Jesus - Holy Spirit

Y _ H V _ H

I'd like to buy a vowel, an "A" please.

Quest

 

[lighthousejohn]

@wattie

Hmm, you bring up valid points. And I sense we are not debating against each other.
As far as the point about Jesus being equal with God, I am reevaluating my position
because there is a bible verse that supports it:

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Also
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

So I guess thinking of Yahweh as the father brings me to think that he is above.

Finally
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

That does not say that God and the Holy Spirit are the same spirit, I will study this detail a bit more..

Jesus said in John 10:30 "30I and the Father are one." In John 14:9 He said " 9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" There can be no doubt that both God the Father and God the Son are both equally one and the same. In the heavenly realm they exist as Spirits. Jesus gave up His Spirit form to take on a human body. In His human form He took a submissive role to God, His Father. This relationship in no way diminished Jesus' diety. Jesus sent us a comforter in the person of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirits role / purpose to do God's work in our lives. He is also equal with God.

To deny the diety and equalness and dety of Jesus and the Holy Spirit is to deny Scripture. We cannot pick and choose which scriptures we choose to believe. It is all or nothing.

In Christ,
John

 

[GODCHILD1]

GOD SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON!

 

[Slepsog4]

The personal name of God (YHWH aka Yahweh or Jehovah) is for the entire godhead (aka, trinity). It is like a family name. It is not exclusively used for the Father. It is also extended to both the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The term God when used alone is likely referring most often to the Father. Yet the Scriptures teach that Jesus is divine (ie, deity, or God) as well as the Holy Spirit.

With the three in one we see:
1. Unity
2. Diversity
3. Equality

 

[Ponderer]

Greetings Everyone,

I have a somewhat different Scriptural take on the Deity of God. In my opinion, the Scriptures very clearly teach that there are only two entities Whom we should acknowledge as God, not three and not as co-equals. They are God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Cor. 8:5-7 makes this very clear. Notice what Paul points out:

A. That there are many gods and many lords both in heaven and in the earth.

B. But to US………(the Saints, the true Believers).

C. There is only ONE GOD, known as the Father, out from Whom everything thing that exists has come.

D. And that there is only ONE LORD, Who is Jesus Christ, through Whom everything that exists came into being, including us.

E. Now notice the very next thing Paul says: That NOT EVERYONE knows this obvious fact. And apparently, it must have even included some in the Church at Corinth who lacked this knowledge.

What is striking in all of this is that Paul totally fails to mention the so-called “third person” in the Trinity doctrine, the Holy Spirit. Why? Because Paul knew, through the revelations he received directly from the risen Saviour, that there is only ONE God, the Father and ONE Lord, Jesus Christ.

If there were such a Trinity of gods (as most of Christianity claims), Paul, who was directly called and taught by Christ and was commissioned by Him to go the heathen gentiles, would have committed a serious sin by not being obedient to Christ’s commission to him in making that fact known to heathen people who worshipped many gods!

Do other Scriptures support Paul’s teaching on this subject? Yes they do! Take a look at what Colossians 1:15-17 says:

“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.”

See also:

1Timothy 2:5 For there is ONE GOD, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

Remember the little exchange that took place between the Lord and the Apostles in Matthew 16: 15-17 where Jesus asked them who did they say He was? What did Peter say?

“Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Did Jesus Christ rebuke Peter and tell him that he had it all wrong? That He (Christ) was co-equal with God the Father and that He was the second person in the Trinity? Not only did Christ not rebuke Peter but He blessed Him and complimented him for saying what he did!

Here is another interesting verse of Scripture which neatly puts things into the proper perspective concerning the relationship that exists between Jesus Christ and the and the Father and the Believers with Christ and the Father.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So, concerning the poll question as to whether: “Do you believe that Jesus is God?” I would say “yes” but with these qualifications:

That Jesus Christ is not equal with or the same as God the Father because He is the Son of the Living God (the Father) and acknowledges the Father as His God.

Ponderer

 

[imoss]

Read the rest of timothy 3:16 please where he validates Christ.

 

[Messyantic]

James, I would be careful using 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word,
and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. as a proof text of the trinity because most scholars consider it an addition done a few hundred years ago.

In fact many of the translations like NIV do not include it.