The King James Only Debate
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M
masmpg
Guest
Even though chick publications have a bad wrap they do reveal a lot of things that are taking place. It just takes research to figure out reality from sensationalism. For any jesuit to come forward, like Jack Chic has revealed, and Malachi Martin who was assassinated for exposing the catholic agenda and others, is something we should pay attention to, especially Martin's book "keys to this blood". He is a very learned scholar about catholic deception.
I have looked into the translation of the KJV... obviously not as much as the only-ists, because I don't see it as the be-all end-all of translations.
And, I will NOT use a KJV only site, or author, as an "authority" as to the legitimacy of it BEING the be-all, end-all. I am capable of study, and of understanding, and I know the Spirit helps me understand, and I do not base my faith on a translation of God's words.
And, attempting to belittle me for not "living and breathing" the KJV only reinforces your status as a cult.
I am not blindly doing ANYTHING. I am telling you what I believe..
The KJV translators did not "create" a language" .... they may have tweaked it somewhat to achieve what they wanted to achieve, but to say that nobody spoke that language is simply wrong, and you were incorrect in stating it that way.
I have read Shakespeare, and know that the "language" he spoke was very close to the language in which the KJV is written.
And, Shakespeare came before the KJV..... so.... logic would have us believe....
Respect me or not..... that's on you, and means little to me. I don't say things to "earn respect"....
First of all, whole the page is a defense of this old man believes instead of a quest for the truth. Opinions instead of facts.
Claim: "There are two kinds of manuscripts - accurate ones and corrupted ones."
Half-truth.
Depends on what we are talking about. The text or the form?
Almost destroyed manuscript can have precise (piece of) text and well preserved late manuscript can have many additions to the text.
Claim: "Accurate copies - manuscripts Textus receptus was taken from."
I would like to see those accurate manuscripts. Where are they? They were few brought to West by some Eastern European guy.
Claim: "They are the majority of Greek manuscripts which agree with each other and have been accepted by Bible believing Christians down through the centuries."
Half-truth. Few manuscripts used by Erasmus for his Textus Receptus were from the East, so from the "Majority text" family.
But were not a good ones. Compare to some Majority text edition. Textus Receptus IS NOT a majority text. It is only closer to it than to Alexandrian text.
Claim: "These manuscripts represent the corrupted copies of the Bible, also known as the Alexandrian manuscripts."
Biased without a proof.
Claim: "These manuscripts, many times, do not even agree with each other."
Half-truth. Its truth that these manuscripts many times do not agree with each other. But the other half of truth is, that NO TWO MANUSCRIPTS agree with each other.
When you compare two most similar existing manuscripts, they differ in more than 2000 places. Even two manuscripts of Textus receptus.
Claim: "These manuscripts agree together 95% of the time. The other 5% account for the differences between the King James and the modern versions."
First part is truth, the last part is not. Yes, manuscripts agree in most of the time. But the rest is the difference between those manuscripts, not between the KJV and modern versions.
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ETC, etc... I dont want to spend hour reading his article. Please, look for something more serious and neutral.
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I dont know these names and I do not judge their life.
The information on their webpages are not precise, are very biased and they try to convince the reader about something what is not true. Thats all.
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masmpg
Guest
This is encouraging. The KJV has served Christianity for 400 years very well. When the "modern" translations were promoted by antichristians compromise crept into all denominations faster then ever. Since the revised version of 1881 not only has denominations brought in strange teachings, but far too many will quote many different versions in one statement to prove their errors. So tell me if there is inconsistencies between translations which one would you choose? God is not divided. He has ONLY ONE true word, and all the diverse translation don't even come close to agreeing. Or will you choose your own wisdom, which, personally I know what my own wisdom has caused throughout my lifetime. Since the Comforter revealed to me John 14:26 & 16:13 I have had great joy in listening to His voice speaking to my conscience. There is one One true voice of reason and that would be the Comforter whom we are told was sent to, according to John:16:7&8: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:" The Holy Spirit is the One that convicts us of sin, He also guides us into all truth, so if the translation is complete, nothing missing, the Comforter can guide us into all the truth through His word, but He does command us to 2Timothy:2:15: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." The huge problem is that the "modern" translations are not complete. Many verses are not only missing, but many more are partially missing, and whole doctrines are being deleted every time these errant translations are "updated". Why do they need to be "updated" in the first place? Is God changing that much?
BTW to consider the SDA denomination a cult just because we keep the sabbath is quite a stretch.
Can you offer any proof that correlates those two "events", or are you simply doing something like this...
because, since the newer versions have come out, life expectancy has gone up dramatically, and the cost of gasoline has, as well.
Those are probably caused by the newer translations, as well....... right?
M
masmpg
Guest
What I write does not benefit me at all. I only write what the Lord has taught me through many years of studying. Instead of rebelling against school and study I desire it. I always want to learn, but sarcasm has no place in sharing knowledge. If you know everything I guess you are satisfied with your own wisdom and knowledge. I certainly am not satisfied with my own weak finite human knowledge. I research everything from all angles and weigh the evidence. Most of those who profess to be Christian will take a couple verses and say "I am saved" and live their lives like there's no tomorrow. I have been chosen by God to be a watchman on the walls of Zion. Do you know what your "Spiritual gift" is? It makes no difference who believes me, criticizes me, or even makes fun of me. I am not the judge God is and He will judge us all. In fact we will all appear before the judgement seat alone to answer for the things we have done to our bodies.
wow... ridicule, arrogance, and self-pity, combined under the umbrella of "piety" all in one comment.
I didn't know that was possible.
You want to throw ideas and opinions around, but denigrate others that do so.
I'm not sure how to even begin to address that....
I believe I'll just move on...
Essentially the issue is over the substitution of a human translation (be it ever so good) for the very word of God found in original language manuscripts. The idea that the Word of God did not exist until 1611 is absurd. And to say that Scripture is best in English is also absurd.
Oh yeah, "good old Brittish empire"It has died long ago. KJV can be some kind of reminder of "that good moral times".
There was a good deal of oppression back then, wasn't there?
M
masmpg
Guest
wow... ridicule, arrogance, and self-pity, combined under the umbrella of "piety" all in one comment.
I didn't know that was possible.
You want to throw ideas and opinions around, but denigrate others that do so.
I'm not sure how to even begin to address that....
I believe I'll just move on...
Do you know what your spiritual gift is??? Paul said that Christ gave gifts to us, His church.
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masmpg
Guest
Eph:4:8: Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph:4:9: (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph:4:10: He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph:4:11: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph:4:12: For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph:4:13: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph:4:14: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph:4:15: But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph:4:16: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Yes, I think I do know what one of my gifts is. I'm also hoping for more....
And, I believe it's actually the Spirit that gives us our gifts... but I get your point.
I don't think that the Ephesians scripture is talking about all believers. I think it was talking about the believers that Jesus interacted with.
All of the believers since then have the opportunity to receive gifts from the Holy Spirit.... from 1 Corinthians...
All of the believers since then have the opportunity to receive gifts from the Holy Spirit.... from 1 Corinthians...
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masmpg
Guest
In these verses Paul wrote to the Ephesians it states that God gave gifts unto men. These gifts are given for a reason, and this reason does not just apply to a certain time frame. Verse 12 states "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Do you believe that these principles were only used for a short time? Does the church still need to be edified? Is there still ministry work? These things will never stop until Jesus comes to take His children home. These gifts were given to the body which is His church. There is no idling into heaven. Every Christian has a job to do. The bible is full of action for everyone who will be saved.
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Sure, without a doubt....and For God so loved the cosmos that he GAVE his only begotten Son<---a gift
For by grace are you saved DIA faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God<----a gift
just sayin......
M
masmpg
Guest
I'm sorry. I agree that whatever we receive from God is a gift.
I didn't mean to sound sarcastic but I do believe the question was "do you know what your 'Spiritual' gift is?"