america the evil

[easygoing]

I have read some posts on an earlier thread concerning america, americas christianity being a crossless brand, being cowards attacking smaller countries, etc.

I just wanted to start a new thread on this so it can be discussed specifically.

I hope that those who believe that america is evil do not believe that all of america is evil. Despite all of our shortcomings and evil ways there are those who live here that must face these evil things on a daily basis and our belief in The Father, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit are what keep us from these evil things. I look at what is said in Ephesians 2:19-22 as where christian citizenship dwells. I look at christians as a whole and not as american christians, austrailian christians, chinese christians, etc, etc. We are all born where we are born but just because of our geographic location is somewhere that evil dwells does not make us evil as well. Evil dwells everywhere and arguments could be made of every country around the world as to how it commits these terrible acts.

Ephesians 2 19 Thus from henceforth you are neither strangers nor foreigners, but fellow-citizens with the saints, and children of the household of god; 20 And you are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the cornerstone of the building: 21 And through him the whole building is fashioned and grows into a holy temple through the help of the lord; 22 You also are builded by him for a habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[kselby]

i agree with you whole heartedly.as far as i am concerned we are all just imperfect humans.

 

[NazariteNation]

I posted this in the other so I might as well post it here (with a few typo corrections *lol*).


While American Christianity has always been faithful in sending funds abroad but in all actuality we are very lazy and would rather toss toss money at something in the hopes that it will go away instead of actually getting out of our la-z-boy boys and actually living out the Great Commission through our own lives. In my opinion this "crossless brand" of christianity could simply mean "unwilling to sacrifice". Please keep in mind that scripture implies that we should render our very lives as a living sacrifice unto the Lord putting God will and God's way before own and bringing our flesh under obedience.


The American Church has also been rendered powerless for the most part. We would rather preach impotent denominational perspectives than the true saving grace and power that lives in the blood of Jesus Christ. We (and I use that term very loosely) have even gone so far as to arrogantly proclaim that we know how exactly God works and are willing to give Satan credit for various miracles that do not particularly line up to our particular belief system.

In fact, while most of us would deny this because of our denominational biases, through profession of their own mouths many allow Satan to run ammuck giving Him almost unlimited power in our lives yet we place the almighty Creator God in box thus limiting what He can do for us and through us simply because our particular denomination does not believe that "this" is no longer relative for today.

We have even gone so far as to adopt "cut and paste christianity". Many pull scripture completely out of context then glue them together in order to make for ourselves a doctrine that we can feel comfortable with.

This my brother and sisters is the true legacy of American Christianity.

I apologize for venting...

 

[NazariteNation]

We have even gone so far as to adopt "cut and paste christianity". Many pull scripture completely out of context then glue them together in order to make for ourselves a doctrine that we can feel comfortable with.

Any "carnal christians" out there willing to step up and give me an Amen?

I didn't think so...

 

[DJB2034]

Well, let's get real for a minute.... "American Christianity" is a very broad generalization that includes Christian sects so disparate in terms of philosophy and practice that they are complete opposites, and then everything in between. The same can be said of Canadian Christianity and Australian Christianity. It could be said about the Christianity of the world in general. America is not at fault. America is the world's most powerful nation with a proud history of courage and justice. Yes, sometimes our leaders mess up, but compared to the rest of the world, America is Eden. And here we are complaining, probably because we lost our frame of reference.

If the church had any more political power in America than it already does, we are asking for trouble. There are reasons that we avoid becoming a theocracy at all costs. It leads to abuse of power, and I don't know if you've noticed or not, but the bible can and has been used as a devastating weapon. Hence, our secular government based on logical principles that creates our advanced society that we enjoy today.

 

[NazariteNation]

Well, let's get real for a minute.... "American Christianity" is a very broad generalization that includes Christian sects so disparate in terms of philosophy and practice that they are complete opposites, and then everything in between. The same can be said of Canadian Christianity and Australian Christianity. It could be said about the Christianity of the world in general. America is not at fault. America is the world's most powerful nation with a proud history of courage and justice. Yes, sometimes our leaders mess up, but compared to the rest of the world, America is Eden. And here we are complaining, probably because we lost our frame of reference.

If the church had any more political power in America than it already does, we are asking for trouble. There are reasons that we avoid becoming a theocracy at all costs. It leads to abuse of power, and I don't know if you've noticed or not, but the bible can and has been used as a devastating weapon. Hence, our secular government based on logical principles that creates our advanced society that we enjoy today.

Yet spiritually we are about as barren as the pharisees in the time of Christ yet one can not ignore the many reports of a mighty move of God sweeping across the missions fields of other nations...

WHY?

 

[DJB2034]

What the h*** are you talking about? Are you being serious right now?

 

[NazariteNation]

What the h*** are you talking about? Are you being serious right now?

Absolutely! Do your research. Rather than humble ourselves in corporate repentance and allowing God to Lord over our entire lives, we huddle together in our little sub-cultures and think tanks trying to figure God out while clinging to beliefs that make us feel comfortable.

Scripture tells us that we should be in the world but not of the world. However, we have done just the opposite. Few of us truly leave the four walls of the church even as we step out into the world. We've created our own language of sorts and clever little catch phrases. We've even got our own t-shirts and bumbpers stickers. However, while we may have separated ourselves from sinners, sin still abounds within us.

 

[roaringkitten]

I can tolerate differences between denominations(ie: gifts, traditions, etc). But when it comes to salvation, when one perverts the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ, that is something I am intolerant about!

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

The gospel is simple. We are the sinners, Jesus is that Savior! Man tends to complicate things. Coming to Him as a guilty sinner(Galatians 3:24)
and turning from UNBELIEF to BELIEF(ie:repentance) in Jesus as the Savior gets us saved!(Ephesians 1:13, 2 Peter 3:9, etc)

 

[DJB2034]

What's new?

Have you considered the fact that a lot of people do not subscribe to Christianity? The world will always be a harsh place. But it's pretty good, all things considered, at least in America. Christians of all types are free to worship as they please, without fear of persecution, and everyone else is free to do as they please. Instead of using all this doomsday rhetoric to strike fear in people, why not focus on yourself and evangelism, which is a privilege you have as an American citizen?

 

[NazariteNation]

What's new?

Have you considered the fact that a lot of people do not subscribe to Christianity? The world will always be a harsh place. But it's pretty good, all things considered, at least in America. Christians of all types are free to worship as they please, without fear of persecution, and everyone else is free to do as they please. Instead of using all this doomsday rhetoric to strike fear in people, why not focus on yourself and evangelism, which is a privilege you have as an American citizen?

Who's trying to strike fear? All I'm implying is that we could use a little humility and a lot of repentance. If that makes you feel afraid, that's sounds like something you should take before the Lord.

Like it or not we are quickly heading toward Tribulation and we need to open our eyes and our hearts. Instead we huddling together in our collective groups praying to escape the wrath which is to come, we need to stand tall in our faith and proclaim the gospel with boldness and compassion...

 

[roaringkitten]

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:18-20

"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." 2 Timothy 3:12

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." Matthew 5:10-12


The world loves its own. If it doesn't hate you, then what does that say about your lifestyle as a Christian??? I think these verses speak volumes about men/women who stand up w/o compromise for the Lord!

 

[NazariteNation]

I can tolerate differences between denominations(ie: gifts, traditions, etc). But when it comes to salvation, when one perverts the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ, that is something I am intolerant about!

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

The gospel is simple. We are the sinners, Jesus is that Savior! Man tends to complicate things. Coming to Him as a guilty sinner(Galatians 3:24)
and turning from UNBELIEF to BELIEF(ie:repentance) in Jesus as the Savior gets us saved!(Ephesians 1:13, 2 Peter 3:9, etc)

That's just it Roaring Kitten and if you will put your differences in opinion down for a second and hear me out, I think you will agree with me on this one...

We the church have basically reduced salvation down into some sort acceptance into a social club rather than preaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ which is that salvation has the power to transform lives. When you get saved, you literally become a new creature in Christ and there is power in the blood to deliver you from whatever your mess is. However, because this is no longer being preached, new converts are coming into the church holding on to habitual sin, various addictions, unforgiveness and the list goes on. And instead of the church encouraging those to rise above the desires of the flesh, the church is being drug down into the sinful muck...

Yes, in most cases it takes time to overcome the desires of the flesh (the sanctification process). And No, mankind is not perfect and I'll the first to admit that I have my moments of weakness. However, instead of embracing sound doctrine which states that through the Holy Spirit and obedience we can bring our flesh under subjection, the church has not only embraced sin but actually soaks it up like a sponge. Premeditated sin like adultery, fornication, unforgiveness, pride, selfish ambition, greed ... all these things have consumed our churches like a bad plague.

The simple truth is, as the American culture has become tolerant of sin, so has the church and statistics prove it. Sexual immorality, divorce, abortion... the numbers are every bit as high within the church as it is outside of the church. I feel this is why the modern church has become as impotent as the pharisee... because we have become every bit as religious as the pharisee in our thinking. We have reduced scripture into hypotheticals and theology instead stepping out in faith and believing it for what it is, the inspired word of God.

 

[roaringkitten]

I'll tell you why the churches are dead silent today. It's because they are tolerant of sin, not wanting to offend others. Many preach another gospel which is no saving gospel at all. Its no wonder professed Christians think they came to Christ because they "gave their life to the Lord" without dealing with their sins!

Preaching them Jesus w/o telling them WHY they need Jesus(their sins) makes FALSE converts. That is where the problem lies.

 

[NazariteNation]

I'll tell you why the churches are dead silent today. It's because they are tolerant of sin, not wanting to offend others. Many preach another gospel which is no saving gospel at all. Its no wonder professed Christians think they came to Christ because they "gave their life to the Lord" without dealing with their sins!

Preaching them Jesus w/o telling them WHY they need Jesus(their sins) makes FALSE converts. That is where the problem lies.

I agree completely and I believe that goes hand in hand with what I am saying. The church has become too focused on keeping it's membership happy and bowing down to various man made doctrines that embrace compromise. The fruit of true salvation is transformation and spiritual growth, not compromise and complacency which seems to becoming prevalent in our churches today.

What ever happened to loving Jesus more than loving the desires of our flesh. And allowing that love for Christ to burn within us with such a holy passion that just the thought of doing something that He isn't pleased with breaks our hearts in two. I believe such love is the root of true repentance.

Just as Christ sacrificed His life out of His passionate love for us. We need to do everything within our power to rekindle our passion for Him!

 

[NazariteNation]

I agree completely and I believe that goes hand in hand with what I am saying. The church has become too focused on keeping it's membership happy and bowing down to various man made doctrines that embrace compromise. The fruit of true salvation is transformation and spiritual growth, not compromise and complacency which seems to becoming prevalent in our churches today.

What ever happened to loving Jesus more than loving the desires of our flesh. And allowing that love for Christ to burn within us with such a holy passion that just the thought of doing something that He isn't pleased with breaks our hearts in two. I believe such love is the root of true repentance.

Just as Christ sacrificed His life out of His passionate love for us. We need to do everything within our power to rekindle our passion for Him!

We can sit and argue all day about, grace, faith, works, or whatever but the ultimate truth is...

Do you truly love Jesus? Do you love Him enough to put your dreams and desires on hold in order to follow after Him? Do you love Him enough to sever sinful aquointances and relationships? Do you love Him enough that every time you stumble and fall your heart breaks into a million pieces and you beg for his mercy and love?

Has your heart grown cold toward sin? Do you take His grace for granted? Do you use scripture to justify your own shortcomings? Do you find yourself quoting scripture at others instead of doing your absolute best to apply it to your own life?

Lord, I pray... let everything that can be shaken be shaken. Let all that is temporal and worldly fall away. Holy Spirit, come resides within us and ignite our hearts with a burning desire for holiness and righteousness! Show us Lord the areas of our lives that are flawed and are in desperate need change. God I pray that you will bring true repentance to this nation and just as your word says, let it begins with us, your church, oh Lord. May we return to your original statues and put assunder the doctrines of denominational pride and confusion. May the Spirit of the Harlot flee from your people, Lord, and may the Bride of Christ come forth in preparation for your glorious return! Just as scripture reads we pray "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven... In Jesus name I pray... Amen

 

[MahogonySnail]

I personally don't think it has much to do with sin or doctrine, true or false converts, these things have always been in the church. But I think there's too much preaching and not enough doing, and if something is done it is not done right. If I was to point the finger I would point it at the institutions and denominations of man, which are based upon power, greed and control. Many are run just like secular businesses in the game to make a profit. It is all about church numbers and money, at least that's what it seems to be in my country. And that's why they don't want to offend people, they don't want to lose membership and lose $$$. I believe all the other wickedness flows from these things.

 

[roaringkitten]

When I came under the FULL conviction of the Holy Ghost about how vile, rotten, horrible of a sinner I was in the eyes of God, I knew the WRATH of God was justified for me! I knew that I deserved to burn in the lake of fire FOREVER, because I offended a HOLY and JUST God who by His very nature cannot accept sin!

This is what I mean, when I say that sinners need to be preached about WHY they need a Savior using the law(Romans 3:19-20,Galatians 3:24, James 2:10, 1 John 1:10). Because when the REALIZE how INFINITE of a terrible situation they are in, they will run to the Savior in faith faster than one can say "I can now sin freely as a Christian"...

I know many professed Christians who say they are Christian, but when I ask them how, they are in COMPLETE denial of their sins! They try and justify them! So again, I would say that man can fool man, but he cannot fool God!

"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7

 

[MahogonySnail]

roaringkitten, what about Christians who are in denial about the spiritual gifts and that healing/miracles are for today? Having a form of godliness but denying the power, Can they fool God too?

 

[kselby]

while i believe that man kind should do what they can ,even on the personal leval....i truly believe that only when gods kingdom rules over the earth will there be peace world wide........gods plan for the earth still exist ...its had a bit of a set back thanks to disobedient humans and satan and the demons...but it is comming..........like a thief in the night.