ask Word of Faith! WOF

[LaurenTM]

Uhh
my friends wife passed away,I wasn't talking about Hagins wife. You might need to read the posts a little closer.

he is too busy reacting emotionally to the defense of what he believes

we are all nasty, narrow minded, 'god-in-a-box, shrews, bioches, cruel man hating spinster bitter women and stupid men who keep interrupting the flow of this wonderful dialogue of enshrine the insanity of people who think they can play god

and you can quote me

he has called me in particular names, has diverted to you a few times and is frustrated this thread did not go as planned..he started at me in the thread started by G777...and has never looked back

that thread seems to have gone the way of the dodo....

 

[LaurenTM]

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Hebrew 11:1

the book of Hebrews is a wonderful book...one of my favs...just went through it again actually

the main focus of Hebrews is Jesus as our High Priest and the faith of those who have gone before us

I find it ignorant to use the above verse so out of context, as a proof text for WOF

and that is one reason it is so disgusting...twisting the word to fit their program of faith means what YOU do and think you have or work up, or as one person here recently said you work on your faith until it manifests.... while totally ignoring the fact that it is actually the faith of our Savior, who put his ETERNAL life in the hand of His Father, believing He would rise from the grave

as I said in a previous post, if HUMAN faith was needed to produce the manifestation of Jesus from the grave, He would have stayed in the grave...because the disciples scattered and had no faith at all...save John who had hope

how very precious little you understand of what God is actually saying in His word

Give honor and glory to God...nothing is from your own faith. NOTHING

FAITH...true faith...is a gift...GIFT from God...not something we work on until it manifests itself into some form of physical appearance


I could type it all out but why make the effort when you are blinded to what scripture so plainly states, so here is a direct and BIBLE based description of what GOD says faith is

​

Faith is the avenue or the instrument God uses to bring salvation to His people. God gives faith because of His grace and mercy, because He loves us (Ephesians 4—5). Faith comes from God in the form of a gift (Ephesians 2:8).

A gift is not earned by some good deed or kind word, and it is not given because the giver expects a gift in return—under any of those conditions, a gift would not be a gift. The Bible emphasizes that faith is a gift because God deserves all of the glory for our salvation. If the receiver of faith could do anything whatsoever to deserve or earn the gift, that person would have every right to boast (Ephesians 2:9). But all such boasting is excluded (Romans 3:27). God wants Christians to understand they have done nothing to earn faith, it’s only because of what Christ did on the cross that God gives anyone faith (Ephesians 2:5, 16).

SOURCE

GRACE IS GOD'S GIFT AND THE FAITH TO ACCEPT AND BELIEVE IT IS ALSO FROM GOD

you're welcome!

 

[blue_ladybug]

Thank you to whomever repped me for this post. I appreciate it. God bless.

So those of us who have prayed, begged, cried to Jesus for healing for say, the last 30-plus years, and have NOT been healed, is due to our walk with him? Sorry, I don't believe that. If He wanted to heal all of us in a one-time shot for all and good, then we would be good to go for the rest of our lives.. I believe that God strengthens our walk with him the most, when we are in pain, or have an illness to deal with. You need only read any of my testimonies to figure that out.

 

[wanderer6059]

I believe that true faith is of the heart. I call the heart of the new creation in Christ the spirit of man - the make up of the heart being both the spirit and soul of man. The inner man is another term used in scripture. The new man is another term.

I think we can believe ( have faith in our spirit which is joined as one with the Lord ) in our spirit but still have doubts in our un-renewed minds. This is why the renewing of the mind is so important.

If people want to call believing with our heart ( spirit ) or that true faith originates from our spirit where Christ is joined with us - is error to them - that is their choice.

I firmly believe that true faith in the New Covenant originates from our heart where Christ dwells.

Hebrews 10:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.


Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

2 Corinthians 4:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But having the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I BELIEVED, THEREFORE I SPOKE," we also believe, therefore we also speak,

Here Jesus talks about having doubt in the heart and having true believing.

Mark 11:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Here Jesus talks about "being slow in the heart to believe".

Luke 24:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Here Jesus speaks about the word being taken from our heart and thus we do not believe.

Luke 8:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Anyway I will stop here because there are many more scriptures that show this truth.

one thing tho grace is the meaning of heart in the NT

Strong's Concordance

kardia: heart​

​

​

Original Word: καρδία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: kardia
Phonetic Spelling: (kar-dee'-ah)
Short Definition: the heart, inner life, intention
Definition: [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]lit: the heart; [/FONT]mind, character, inner self, will, intention,

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]the heart more lines up with our soul, who we are, our personality, not the new birthed spirit in us [/FONT]

 

[wanderer6059]

Doubt - doubt is a difficult thing. If your heart says, this has not happened before, I have never seen
it, God will do it, because it is ..... you have failed.

The faith Jesus is talking about is a conviction that you have that something is going to happen, you
ask for it, and it takes place. I had this once, but about something small.

The Lord is making a promise to us. If when all the arguments are finished, we know that our request
is what God desires, it will take place. This is very rare that we come to this place. Mainly we have
a reason or caviate. Has anyone understood like Jesus, the nature of existance and the balance of
relationships between the mortal and the eternal? I have not heard of anyone. Wof are, say a few
words and God will answer. This is not faith but superstition a magic word changes reality, rather
we know God will bring something about, in a specific way and time and we are asking for it.

WOF version is, speak it out, and it will happen, which is saying the confession is the definition of
reality and not faith in God.

WOF make a fundamental error in theology. People hate God because of sin and righteousness, not
because of whether he exists or does not. They have believed the secular lie, that the existance of
God is the issue, rather than it is about the heart and sin that makes it hard and cold and shuts love
down and out.

So WOF thinks everyone will believe if they see miracles. Israel saw and rebelled. Egypt saw and possibly
for one generation their religion changed, but it reverted to pantheism. Even in WOF churches many see
the claims, walk in them for a few years and then leave the faith.

yeah brother thats not at all the context of the scripture, just your opinion of the scripture, and its way off. and that last part makes no sense its like you just started rambling on.... but if you would like to talk about the unsaved we could do that instead if you cant refute my post with scripture in context...

 

[wanderer6059]

wanderer...since you will be moving on, if your handle means anything...just go ahead

and don't forget to slam everyone else here who does not agree with you

you should be busy most of the week-end

I understand that some people have the need to pick one person and try their best to punch them into the shape they desire

stop wasting your time and energy...read the responses...it is not a surprise that many like WOF the way it appeals to the flesh and the thought that you have control over how God interacts with you

it's nonsense at best and demonic at worst



well you know, the Bible is plain about the great falling away

what can I say...........

and cecile has left the building

Hi lauren, yeah i'm not leaving. and once you decide to stop acting like a child and have a mature conversation, or debate over theology... its funny seeing a women your age act this way, i have 5 year olds in my SS class that have more wisdom and respect for others.

 

[wanderer6059]

there is nothing biblical in the above

the makeup of the heart is the spirit and soul?

I can't even begin to say how far off what scripture teaches that sentiment is

the Bible teaches that the soul and the spirit are distinct...

there is a progression in what you say...I used to agree with many of your posts, I just shake my head at them now

that's fine

guess I'll just leave it at that

id like to see you try to prove that i'm off, and the spirit and the soul are = and you have not agreed with one post i have had SMH. what a joke


proveitsister

 

[wanderer6059]

Uhh
my friends wife passed away,I wasn't talking about Hagins wife. You might need to read the posts a little closer.

my apologies sister, i see that now. i'm sorry. but again that is not what Rhema teaches, so i don't know how he got it from us. pastor took his young son Craig many years ago to the hospital here and he had to have brain surgery to remove a cancerous growth, they believe in modern medicine

 

[wanderer6059]

that is because we have people here who actually know what WOF is

you have made nasty personal comments here to several of us...after saying you love us

convoluted theology produces a split mind

you are a bully child, and you calling me that is like the color black calling the kettle black. you are your own brood of vipers

 

[wanderer6059]

he is too busy reacting emotionally to the defense of what he believes

we are all nasty, narrow minded, 'god-in-a-box, shrews, bioches, cruel man hating spinster bitter women and stupid men who keep interrupting the flow of this wonderful dialogue of enshrine the insanity of people who think they can play god

and you can quote me

he has called me in particular names, has diverted to you a few times and is frustrated this thread did not go as planned..he started at me in the thread started by G777...and has never looked back

that thread seems to have gone the way of the dodo....

you must be blind to yourself, i'm literally amazed at how you act, you are a bully, immature and apparently uneducated because you cant refute my post! lol its funny you must have a problem admitting when you are wrong to, along with your anger

 

[popeye]

The real problem with WOF is simple.

People have died because WOF said do not go to doctors God will heal you, and
they died.

So the problem was with the faith that God would heal in the particular situation.

If you hold God heals all believers in all situations, it becomes a deal breaker if
you get a fatal disease. To go against your faith and accept help is like a statement
of apostacy.

Now if WOF churches could face this dilemma, but they cannot because it is a
cornerstone of a heretical spirit of rebellion. Gods will is lower than the will
of the believer. It is why selfish desires for health and wealth abound, for domination,
for creative authority, for authority over anything you wish to mention.

But it is insane, because this authority does not exist, and is merely a play on peoples
emotional desires and a real sense of being out of control.

Wow,what a mess.
You have no basis for any of that.

Your whole deal is assumption.

Lets broad-brush Baptist using you template of obscurities.

"All Baptist are cruel,and dastardly evil"

How do we know?

I ONCE SAW a Westboro Baptist hate fest at a military funeral.

See how that works?

 

[LaurenTM]

id like to see you try to prove that i'm off, and the spirit and the soul are = and you have not agreed with one post i have had SMH. what a joke


proveitsister

this is not addressed to any post you made

 

[LaurenTM]

you must be blind to yourself, i'm literally amazed at how you act, you are a bully, immature and apparently uneducated because you cant refute my post! lol its funny you must have a problem admitting when you are wrong to, along with your anger

your teachers at your school need to see how you respond to those who disagree with you

they would be enlightened and I am pretty sure they would not approve

WOF or not

you have reduced your responses to personal attack and nasty attempts at making dirty comments

and you have become a rather good illustration of why you cannot make pastors in school

check your blood pressure and take 5...your Christian barometer is at about -2 right now

 

[wanderer6059]

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Hebrew 11:1

the book of Hebrews is a wonderful book...one of my favs...just went through it again actually

the main focus of Hebrews is Jesus as our High Priest and the faith of those who have gone before us

I find it ignorant to use the above verse so out of context, as a proof text for WOF

and that is one reason it is so disgusting...twisting the word to fit their program of faith means what YOU do and think you have or work up, or as one person here recently said you work on your faith until it manifests.... while totally ignoring the fact that it is actually the faith of our Savior, who put his ETERNAL life in the hand of His Father, believing He would rise from the grave

as I said in a previous post, if HUMAN faith was needed to produce the manifestation of Jesus from the grave, He would have stayed in the grave...because the disciples scattered and had no faith at all...save John who had hope

how very precious little you understand of what God is actually saying in His word

Give honor and glory to God...nothing is from your own faith. NOTHING

FAITH...true faith...is a gift...GIFT from God...not something we work on until it manifests itself into some form of physical appearance


I could type it all out but why make the effort when you are blinded to what scripture so plainly states, so here is a direct and BIBLE based description of what GOD says faith is

​

Faith is the avenue or the instrument God uses to bring salvation to His people. God gives faith because of His grace and mercy, because He loves us (Ephesians 4—5). Faith comes from God in the form of a gift (Ephesians 2:8).

A gift is not earned by some good deed or kind word, and it is not given because the giver expects a gift in return—under any of those conditions, a gift would not be a gift. The Bible emphasizes that faith is a gift because God deserves all of the glory for our salvation. If the receiver of faith could do anything whatsoever to deserve or earn the gift, that person would have every right to boast (Ephesians 2:9). But all such boasting is excluded (Romans 3:27). God wants Christians to understand they have done nothing to earn faith, it’s only because of what Christ did on the cross that God gives anyone faith (Ephesians 2:5, 16).

SOURCE

GRACE IS GOD'S GIFT AND THE FAITH TO ACCEPT AND BELIEVE IT IS ALSO FROM GOD

you're welcome!

finally a post with context! btw where did you get this? and you prove it?

now this is were you are off because it is talking abut living faith

8 [FONT=&quot]Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]this is calling faith as more that a slot machine to get you what you want but a lifestyle that you live.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised[/FONT]
[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] the full context is not just describing the faith of our salvation but faith in action, a boldly living faith.

[/FONT]35 [FONT=&quot]Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.[/FONT][FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

right here is where we start to see the attitude of faith, a confidence, a boldness!

[/FONT]3 [FONT=&quot]Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.[/FONT][FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

it goes on to show that by faith, God brought reality into existence! the rest of the chapter goes on to describe the heroes of faith, and that God is His greatness lead them to glory in ALL THINGS. It is a firm persuasion and expectation, that God will perform all he has promised to us in Christ. [/FONT]the same things that are the object of our hope, are the object of our faith. it is the Word of God, i will agree that many WoF people have taken this out of context, and made shipwrecks of there faith. but that is not what Rhema has taught. it has taught that faith is a bold lifestyle believing that EVERYTHING GOD SAYS HE WILL DO, HE DOES. and we will hold firm to faith in who He is no matter what.

[FONT=&quot]36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

even unto death. i will stand firm believing every word God has said is true and everything He has promised me will come to pass[/FONT]

 

[LaurenTM]

really, the mods should close this thread because it is serving no purpose

if the op cannot do other than call names because someone gets him so angry over disagreeing, it has lost all credible points he thought he might make

 

[wanderer6059]

this is not addressed to any post you made

yes it is, the you are commenting on mine and grace's post, so prove what you said.

there is nothing biblical in the above

the makeup of the heart is the spirit and soul?

I can't even begin to say how far off what scripture teaches that sentiment is

the Bible teaches that the soul and the spirit are distinct...

withscripture

 

[wanderer6059]

really, the mods should close this thread because it is serving no purpose

if the op cannot do other than call names because someone gets him so angry over disagreeing, it has lost all credible points he thought he might make

look at the post right above you, and what names have i called you hat are worse than what you have....

 

[kaylagrl]

my apologies sister, i see that now. i'm sorry. but again that is not what Rhema teaches, so i don't know how he got it from us. pastor took his young son Craig many years ago to the hospital here and he had to have brain surgery to remove a cancerous growth, they believe in modern medicine

Not
a problem,easy to misunderstand. Yes,he believes in going to doctors too but does not claim sickness. He believed she would recover. I do believe WOF preaches the same?

 

[wanderer6059]

your teachers at your school need to see how you respond to those who disagree with you

they would be enlightened and I am pretty sure they would not approve

WOF or not

you have reduced your responses to personal attack and nasty attempts at making dirty comments

and you have become a rather good illustration of why you cannot make pastors in school

check your blood pressure and take 5...your Christian barometer is at about -2 right now

bps about 110/80 so im good sister you should check yours though, at your age and with your attitude you could be in real danger of hypertension (really tho i'm an EMT and you all think i don't believe in medicine SMH) other than that my teachers would probably tell me to ignore you, but i don't shrink to bullys, i call them out. and give back exactly what the dish out.

 

[wanderer6059]

Not
a problem,easy to misunderstand. Yes,he believes in going to doctors too but does not claim sickness. He believed she would recover. I do believe WOF preaches the same?

ok, yeah that the error in his thinking we are taught that you must know you trial, and not to hid from it. pastor even says "if you have the flu and all the symptoms and say i'm not sick. that's not faith that's stupidity" he says in life ever illness, trial, and necessity is a battle. and heavily says "go to the doctor" he teaches that God uses two streams for healing, the natural and the supernatural, and together they make the explosive force for God. if they are preaching to deny the existence of a problem they have gone in the ditch as we say.