What’s involved in doing God’s will unto salvation?

[ZacharyB]

I don't hear anyone saying that true saving belief does not result in obedience.

You think all of the horrendous sinning in the churches has anything to do with obedience?
You think none of such people are born again (from above)?
No, multitudes of believers in the churches are born again,
but because of such false doctrines as free grace OSAS,
they think they can be habitual sinners and still get to heaven.

However, because this horrendous life-style
is NOT even close to the will of the Father,
Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you!"
(Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[mailmandan]

You think all of the horrendous sinning in the churches has anything to do with obedience?
You think none of such people are born again (from above)?
No, multitudes of believers in the churches are born again,
but because of such false doctrines as free grace OSAS,
they think they can be habitual sinners and still get to heaven.

However, because this horrendous life-style
is NOT even close to the will of the Father,
Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you!"
(Matthew 7:21-23)

John disagrees with you. 1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

*Where did John mention horrendous sinning here by those who are born of God? You seem to be obsessed with attacking the OSAS doctrine and seem to enjoy accusing all who believe in OSAS of being habitual sinners.

In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved (vs. 23). They may have said Lord, Lord, but did not do the will of the Father (vs. 21).John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. These many people practiced iniquity/lawlessness because they did not have saving faith in Christ. They were self righteous and trusted in THEIR WORKS! (vs. 22). Without faith it's impossible to please God, so their so called wonderful works amounted to filthy rags.

 

[ZacharyB]

John disagrees with you. 1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

*Where did John mention horrendous sinning here by those who are born of God? You seem to be obsessed with attacking the OSAS doctrine and seem to enjoy accusing all who believe in OSAS of being habitual sinners.

In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved (vs. 23). They may have said Lord, Lord, but did not do the will of the Father (vs. 21).John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. These many people practiced iniquity/lawlessness because they did not have saving faith in Christ. They were self righteous and trusted in THEIR WORKS! (vs. 22). Without faith it's impossible to please God, so their so called wonderful works amounted to filthy rags.

Okay, then there are MULTITUDES of people in western churches
who have never been born again from above!
Because said MULTITUDES are partaking of habitual sin!

I must keep repeating that we see MANY ways in the NT in which
we must do God's will ... NOT ONLY by believing Jesus and His precious Gospel.

 

[ZacharyB]

Re: MULTITUDES are partaking of habitual sin!

Michael Snyder wrote yesterday ...
2/3 of Christian men (in USA) are involved in watching porno!

 

[John146]

NOT ONLY by believing Jesus and His precious Gospel.

There you go board...salvation is not dependent upon the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, but also our ability to not sin. Why does Scripture call it the gospel of Jesus Christ? What's so good about the news that Christ died for our sins? Should we abstain from sin, absolutely. And now we have a helper in the Holy Spirit. But this in no way guarantees we will not sin. So I guess its' up to our own ability to walk after the Spirit? Honestly, would this not be boasting in one's ability?

 

[dcontroversal]

The work and will of the Heavenly Father....BELIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE SENT!

 

[gb9]

Okay, then there are MULTITUDES of people in western churches
who have never been born again from above!
Because said MULTITUDES are partaking of habitual sin!

I must keep repeating that we see MANY ways in the NT in which
we must do God's will ... NOT ONLY by believing Jesus and His precious Gospel.

this is the work of God, that you believe in the One He sent.- Jesus. I think i'll go with him over you.

 

[mailmandan]

Okay, then there are MULTITUDES of people in western churches
who have never been born again from above!
Because said MULTITUDES are partaking of habitual sin!

I must keep repeating that we see MANY ways in the NT in which
we must do God's will ... NOT ONLY by believing Jesus and His precious Gospel.

Galatians 5:19 - Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

In 1 Corinthians 6:9, Paul refers to such people as the unrighteous who will not inherit the kingdom of God and mentions a similar list of sins in vs. 10, but then goes on to say in verse 11 - And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

It is the lifestyle, or pattern of this behavior being exibited in one's life. To stumble and sin intermittently is different than making these behaviors a lifestyle. The idea of "practice" is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. Paul uses the present tense which describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. Those who practice such sins demonstrate they have not been born of God.

There is certainly a difference between "practice" sin (no repentance, just bring it on!) and commit an act of sin but continue to pursue practicing righteousness in keeping with repentance.

 

[ZacharyB]

What's so good about the news that Christ died for our sins?
So I guess its' up to our own ability to walk after the Spirit?
Honestly, would this not be boasting in one's ability?

It's good news that we don't have to go to hell ... we have a chance not to!
Why does Paul constantly talk about "the hope" of eternal life, and not the certainty of it?
C'mon, it's because he very tactfully (almost hiddenly) warns that we can lose it.

When we whole-heartedly co-operate with our Lord, we are willing to led by the Spirit.

When I repent of my sins, I guess I could boast that I'm being obebient,
but I know that I am just responding to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

 

[notuptome]

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mailmandan]

It's good news that we don't have to go to hell ... we have a chance not to!
Why does Paul constantly talk about "the hope" of eternal life, and not the certainty of it?
C'mon, it's because he very tactfully (almost hiddenly) warns that we can lose it.

Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. *Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7). This is not a cross your fingers wishy washy kind of uncertain hope.

 

[ZacharyB]

Galatians 5:19 - Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

In 1 Corinthians 6:9, Paul refers to such people as the unrighteous who will not inherit the kingdom of God and mentions a similar list of sins in vs. 10, but then goes on to say in verse 11 - And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

It is the lifestyle, or pattern of this behavior being exibited in one's life. To stumble and sin intermittently is different than making these behaviors a lifestyle. The idea of "practice" is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. Paul uses the present tense which describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. Those who practice such sins demonstrate they have not been born of God.

There is certainly a difference between "practice" sin (no repentance, just bring it on!) and commit an act of sin but continue to pursue practicing righteousness in keeping with repentance.

ALL of this is what I've been saying all along.
I've lost track ... have you now changed your opinion on all of this?
You used to disagree with me ... now we agree 100%?

 

[ZacharyB]

Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. *Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7). This is not a cross your fingers wishy washy kind of uncertain hope.

Yes, I've heard your above before.
HOPE does not really mean our word hope.
BELIEVE does not really mean our word believe.
FAITH does not really mean our word faith.
etc.

One word cannot adequately describe what's involved.
The idiot translators have blown it often!
My favorite example is:
Jesus often said He was "I AM".
The idiot translators had to insert a "He/he" after "I AM",
which totally destroys Jesus' meaning that He is the Great I AM.
In the Greek, there never is any "He/he" after "I AM".

 

[Zmouth]

"so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7). This is not a cross your fingers wishy washy kind of uncertain hope."

Yes, I've heard your above before.
HOPE does not really mean our word hope.
BELIEVE does not really mean our word believe.
FAITH does not really mean our word faith.
etc.

I see what you mean, hearing doesn't mean hearing either.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for.." So if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God then it is kinda strange how they could have hope in the word of God "but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" Rom 8:24

I wonder if eternal still means eternal? What hope could a mortal man have in eternal life seeing that he can't honestly say that he has always existed; and if he can say he always existed then what hope does one have in a lie.

 

[ZacharyB]

I wonder if eternal still means eternal?

The parallel is a gift from God, or from anyone else for that matter.
Gifts can be taken back, especially by God who can do whatever He pleases.
A father gives his son a brand new fabulous car.
If he misuses it, the father can take it back.

The Lord just said ...
calling it eternal is much more impressive for new believers!
They need to proceed with as much thankfulness, confidence, etc. as possible.

Hope this helps ... hope as in I ain't sure.

 

[Grandpa]

The parallel is a gift from God, or from anyone else for that matter.
Gifts can be taken back, especially by God who can do whatever He pleases.
A father gives his son a brand new fabulous car.
If he misuses it, the father can take it back.

The Lord just said ...
calling it eternal is much more impressive for new believers!
They need to proceed with as much thankfulness, confidence, etc. as possible.

Hope this helps ... hope as in I ain't sure.

We are saved by faith.

What attacks faith? The enemy attacks faith.

The Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit encourage.

Encourage what? Your continuing faith in the work of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10
[FONT=&quot]8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


When Paul was killing Christians he thought he was doing the work of God. Then he came to Christ, or rather, Christ confronted him. His whole outlook on what the work of God is/was changed from that moment on.


If you tell someone that God will take back His Gift of Salvation if a person doesn't do this or that or does do this or that you may think you are doing the work of God. You may think you are 'helping' Him.

But if you do say those things you are actually against Christ in whom is no condemnation. If Christ our Lord will not condemn us how can we turn around and condemn others?

If Christ our Lord has shown us mercy how can we do anything but show mercy to others?[/FONT]

 

[seed_time_harvest]

As per usual and normal for you guys ...
you ignore Scripture passages which are presented in someone's OP.

So, let's have an apples and oranges fight ... choose your weapon.

But, I'll fight with both ... because as I have stated ... I honor both weapons equally.

So, fighting with both ... for each throw, I'll tie one apple together with one orange.

So are you saying,you are going to harmonize the scripture they use(apples)with scripture you use(oranges)?

We know that GOD Is not the author of confusion,so then If the scripture they use or the scripture you use,cannot be harmonized/Interpreted together showing harmony and order using their scripture and your scripture,then we know there Is error.

Would you agree?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

For those who either cannot read, or insist on rejecting clear Scripture,
I will repeat the obvious ...

If you break God's laws, you are not doing the will of God.

So says Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23.

Some of us will be welcoming your comments on this.

Paul said under the Inspiration of GOD,the law Is spiritual but I am carnal.

Who shall deliver me from the body of this death.

 

[pottersclay]

I believe what's trying to be said here is if you confess Christ as your Lord yet your lifestyle does not change are you born again?
I've seen many people say they believe in God and Jesus but their lifestyle contradicts it. There speech and even ambitions are opposite.
We know that salvation is a gift that no man can earn by works, so with that being said one would have to agree that believing in God and Christ does not necessarily make someone saved.
A closer examination of the term "believe in" has to be done in order to establish its meaning.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, I've heard your above before. HOPE does not really mean our word hope.

Do you agree with post #31 or do you believe that biblical hope is uncertain hope?

BELIEVE does not really mean our word believe.
FAITH does not really mean our word faith.
etc.

I don't recall discussing that. One thing I would like to point out though is that the word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent" belief, as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance" in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

I believe "mental assent" that George Washington existed and I also believe in the historical facts about George Washington, but I am not trusting in George Washington to save my soul. See the difference? Saving belief/faith is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief/faith trusts exclusively in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

One word cannot adequately describe what's involved.
The idiot translators have blown it often!
My favorite example is:
Jesus often said He was "I AM".
The idiot translators had to insert a "He/he" after "I AM",
which totally destroys Jesus' meaning that He is the Great I AM.
In the Greek, there never is any "He/he" after "I AM".

Jesus is certainly the Great I AM.