What’s involved in doing God’s will unto salvation?
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Is God saving us or are we saving ourselves? Some seem to be saying we have to work our way to Heaven and others seem to be saying that we just trust God and He will carry us to Heaven. As strange as it may seem, both of these attitudes are dangerous. The danger in placing great thought and effort into works is that you may come to yourself one day and realize you are not practicing faith in God, just faith in works. On the other hand, if you just decide that you are trusting in God and have no concern for works, you may come to yourself one day and realize you are doing nothing. Ok, I believe the answer is to place faith in God above everything else and be willing to do whatever comes your way that is the will of God according to what is in the scriptures. God saves us and keeps us, however it was our will that God used to save us, it really is up to us to maintain that faith in Christ by an act of our will.
Yes, of course, everything is a combination of everyone doing their part.
Man must co-operate with the Lord to end up being saved.
Which agrees with the concept that salvation is a process!
Man's part in his salvation is much more than
merely believing in Jesus and His precious Gospel.
Because man has been given the free-will to choose to co-operate with God.
However, man has NOT been given the free-will to choose to believe!
Man MUST be given that tiny seed of faith, which enables him to believe.
Then, he gets to be tested ... to see IF his belief-faith is real and genuine.
Does one's belief-faith-trust translate into love for God and obedience to Him?
The results of these tests are recorded for all time to be seen by all people.
Later.
Man must co-operate with the Lord to end up being saved.
Which agrees with the concept that salvation is a process!
Man's part in his salvation is much more than
merely believing in Jesus and His precious Gospel.
Because man has been given the free-will to choose to co-operate with God.
However, man has NOT been given the free-will to choose to believe!
Man MUST be given that tiny seed of faith, which enables him to believe.
Then, he gets to be tested ... to see IF his belief-faith is real and genuine.
Does one's belief-faith-trust translate into love for God and obedience to Him?
The results of these tests are recorded for all time to be seen by all people.
Later.
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Here is a scripture that says that if anyone who has ever sinned against God will be blotted out of the book. This means that all of us have been blotted out of God's book for who has not ever sinned? No one.
Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
This is a true statement but it is not the ultimate statement of truth because what Christ did on the cross and resurrection trumps this truth.
Works-based salvationists mindsets will always stumble at the preaching of Christ and His finished work of salvation for us.
They will read with Old Covenant eyes and interpret scriptures through this lens - Paul said with the reading of Moses there is a veil over the eyes and Christ has become a stumbling block to them and they are blinded to the truths of Christ finished work for us.
The Old Covenant mindset was - "you do in order to receive". The New Covenant is "Believe and receive all that Christ has already done by grace through faith in Him".
Then His life will flow in and through us to a hurt and dying world. His fruit is being manifested in our lives as we depend totally on His grace through faith in Him and what he has already done for us. Without Him we can do nothing. He is our life.
Remember - everything in the scriptures is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth. We need to filter all scripture through the clear scriptures of the salvation that is in Christ because of His grace. We receive this grace of His work by faith when we believed.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
There are many warning scriptures that speak of destruction on this earth by walking after the flesh. Take up shooting heroin in your arms and the truth of this will be readily apparent.
We must separate out the saving of destructive things in this temporal life and eternal salvation as in going to be with the Lord for eternity.
Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
This is a true statement but it is not the ultimate statement of truth because what Christ did on the cross and resurrection trumps this truth.
Works-based salvationists mindsets will always stumble at the preaching of Christ and His finished work of salvation for us.
They will read with Old Covenant eyes and interpret scriptures through this lens - Paul said with the reading of Moses there is a veil over the eyes and Christ has become a stumbling block to them and they are blinded to the truths of Christ finished work for us.
The Old Covenant mindset was - "you do in order to receive". The New Covenant is "Believe and receive all that Christ has already done by grace through faith in Him".
Then His life will flow in and through us to a hurt and dying world. His fruit is being manifested in our lives as we depend totally on His grace through faith in Him and what he has already done for us. Without Him we can do nothing. He is our life.
Remember - everything in the scriptures is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth. We need to filter all scripture through the clear scriptures of the salvation that is in Christ because of His grace. We receive this grace of His work by faith when we believed.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
There are many warning scriptures that speak of destruction on this earth by walking after the flesh. Take up shooting heroin in your arms and the truth of this will be readily apparent.
We must separate out the saving of destructive things in this temporal life and eternal salvation as in going to be with the Lord for eternity.
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No matter what any of us say, at the end of the day, Jesus Christ decides who is saved and who is not saved. I used to listen to a radio preacher teach the bible and he knew the bible well, however he taught some things that I recognized as not what the bible actually teaches. He was doing this one night and in my mind I said to myself, he is sure going to be in trouble when he gets to Heaven. Suddenly the Lord spoke very clearly to my mind, what makes you think he is going. I think there will be quite a few folks who are going to stand before the Lord and be rebuked and some may even be cast out...people don't seem to grasp the reality that GOD HATES LIES. If you don't understand something in the bible then just admit it and go on lest you decide to change the word of God and bring on yourself the anger of God.
You have quite a bit of spiritual wisdom, which is not true of MANY here.
There are MANY tares(weeds) in the Kingdom of God(heaven),
and Jesus says to leave them be ...
His angels will weed them out @ the end of the age, and cast them into the fire!
Therefore, everyone ... Be careful to NOT be deceived by false teachers!
There are MANY tares(weeds) in the Kingdom of God(heaven),
and Jesus says to leave them be ...
His angels will weed them out @ the end of the age, and cast them into the fire!
Therefore, everyone ... Be careful to NOT be deceived by false teachers!
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True, Scriptures plainly teaches this, but this generation does not believe Scriptures and what they plainly teach, this generation loves to hold on to the doctrines that they believe in. Doctrines based on a couple of verses all the while ignoring any other verse that seems to contradict what they believe is the TRUTH.
ONLY when what you believe does not contradict even one verse in Scriptures is when you can begin to see the TRUTH. But as long as you hold on to a belief, because of a couple of verses, and yet ignore, make void, or interpret away, ANY verse that contradicts that belief, you are devoid of the TRUTH, no matter how loud you scream that you know the Truth.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
ONLY when what you believe does not contradict even one verse in Scriptures is when you can begin to see the TRUTH. But as long as you hold on to a belief, because of a couple of verses, and yet ignore, make void, or interpret away, ANY verse that contradicts that belief, you are devoid of the TRUTH, no matter how loud you scream that you know the Truth.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Who told you that i think it is by my own power and strength? Is it not in your own mind that makes you think that i think that? i have never said that or even implied that.
Know you not what that verse just said. Those who walk not after the flesh, are they that now have no condemnation because they are in Christ. Read the verse, understand what it is saying. You seem to forget that free will is given to us by God. We choose to either walk after the flesh or walk after the spirit of God. What? Does Jesus make you do good things? After reading what you have just said above, it would seem you think so. If that were True, then you would never be tempted to do evil again, because Jesus in you prevents you from doing them. According to you, Jesus in you causes you to do good. Where is choice then? Where is free will?
You choose to do good or you choose to do evil. God does not MAKE you do either. Now those who desire to please God will choose to do good, those who desire to please self will choose to do evil.
A man is hurt and beaten across the street. God does not make you go help him. satan does not Make you not help him. Those who are walking in the flesh, will walk on by not helping them for this or that reason. Those who are walking in the spirit will help because they will have compassion on him. But you choose to either help or not help. YOu choose to be led by the spirit or led by self.
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Are you serious? If i tell them they must obey the Word of God and LOVE ONE ANOTHER, i am encouraging them to walk after the flesh? huh? If i tell people they MUST obey Jesus, i am encouraging them to walk after the flesh? How is that exactly? How is telling people to Love One Another, or obey Jesus encouraging them to walk after the flesh.
How is telling people to Love One Another the wrong way? Do you even know what walking after the flesh is? Walking after the flesh is doing anything to please, gratify, promote, SELF. Name me one sin that a person Knowingly and willingly commits that is not SELFISHNESS? Name one. Those who walk after the flesh think of self, those who walk after the spirit think of others, even above their own self.
If i say to people they must do this or must do that because it is what i say, then yes you are right, that is evil and comes from me. But if i say and teach you must do what the Word of God says to do or not to do, then it is not from me, but from God. Jesus and all the Apostle taught what we must do and must not do, were they also encouraging people to walk in the flesh because they did so? Were they leading people wrong, because they taught what Christians MUST do and MUST NOT do?
My teaching is not for Saved Christians, for they know the TRUTH given to them by the Holy Spirit of God. My teaching and calling is to those who profess to be Christians and will be rejected by Jesus Christ, when He tells them "I never knew you, those who practice sin" My Calling is to those who profess Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior, yet they knowingly and willingly obey His enemy the devil and continue to live in sins. These are they that i was born to reprove, rebuke, and exhort them to REPENT of their sins, and start living a life unto Jesus Christ and not unto their own selves by continually obeying His enemy.
When Jesus Christ appears He will take one out of a thousand people, and two out of a hundred thousand. Do the math. Many are called (get saved) But only a few are chosen, and i mean it is a very few.
Enter in at the narrow and difficult gate that leads to life everlasting, NOT the wide and easy gate, that many will go into. And don't think it is the UNSAVED that are on the wide and easy path. The UNSAVED are unsaved, they are not on any path at all, they don't believe in any gates, narrow or otherwise. Those who are on a path (narrow or wide, God knows) are all professed Christians, But many choose the wide and easy gate, such as the doctrine OSAS, how much easier can it get with that doctrine. But Narrow and difficult is the path that leads to life everlasting, you better start finding out what that means, before it is to late and you are told by Jesus that you took the wrong path, that you took the EASY path, easy Christianity path. All of you have been warned.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Tell me is falsely accusing a brother, of God or of satan? You have accused me of not figuring out that Salvation is not from your work but from Gods Work, From what have i said do you base this assumption from? Name any where where i have said this or even implied this. If you can't they are indeed falsely accusing me, which is not of God, brother. But i forgive you, because it is in your head that makes you think this is what i believe.
Those who do such things will never enter into the Kingdom of God. Here is the problem with this generation though. They altogether FAIL to realize that Faith and Works go hand in hand, NOT one without the other. But if i teach Faith and Works, you say i am teaching Works only, and thereby go about accusing me falsely saying such. But i have not, nor ever will say Works only.
Tell me something if you are willing to answer it.
You know full well what a Works-based religion is. Please describe to us what a Faith-ONLY based religion is? Describe those who are FAITH ONLY-based religion?
Then after you do that, please explain to me, how you do not fit into that category?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Thats it? That is your list of Steps to get to Heaven? Seriously? Where is the repentance, where is "If you Love me, you will do what I say" You have altogether ignored the entire Bible which tells us what the steps are to get to Heaven, but you choose three verses, which indeed is but a mere PART of the steps to get to Heaven. You Fail to understand this statement. "Getting Saved and being Saved are two entirely different things" How one gets Saved, is totally different from What one must do when they are Saved. What? Do you think the free gift comes to you more than ONCE?
Salvation most certainly begins in us, the moment we believe in our hearts, that Jesus is the Son of God and died for us. And you most certainly choose what path you take, why else would our Lord and Savior warn us to choose the narrow path.
Mat_7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Please notice that Jesus is telling us what gate to enter, it is not automatic like you are suggesting, saying things like we do not place ourselves on the narrow path. Jesus is telling us to enter the narrow gate, why? Because it is most certainly where we choose to place ourselves on. The Narrow and difficult path is not something Jesus automatically places you on, as you seem to be implying. Jesus Himself plainly told us, we have to FIND it, search for it, look for it. It is not easy to find, it is very narrow and very difficult path, and only a very few will FIND IT. So as long as you think you are on it, How will you ever desire to find it, when you already think you are on it?
What? Now you teach that it is our choice. For a person to turn from his/her own ways and turn to Christ is a choice that a person makes, to either continue to live in their own ways, or turn away from their own ways and start living a life that is just for Jesus Christ, which by the way is the narrow and difficult path that we were discussing above.
So then if i say and teach. Stop obeying satan, and start obeying Jesus Christ, that is is bad, and you debate with me, but you say the same thing
and that is good? How is what i say above different then what you say here?
What you or i think obedience means is irrelevant. What Scriptures teach is what is relevant.
Luk_6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: :25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. :26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: :27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
This is what Jesus says, and the Apostles confirms it numerous times:
Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
There are two kinds of Christians in the world today:
Those who believe and do what Jesus commanded them to do (Sheep, Narrow difficult path)
and
Those who believe and don't do what Jesus commanded them to do (goats, Broad wide path)
So go ahead and claim to be Saved because you believe, and continue to NOT DO as He commanded, and see if one day during the hour of temptation, that your house does not fall because you were not wise and obeyed your Savior, Lord, and Master, Jesus Christ. Please listen to the words of the Holy Scriptures.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave