Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

[wanderer6059]

If you do believe in healing "today", it does not follow you will be healed.

Have you heard about the apostle Paul, Timotheus, Trophimus?
All of them were not healed, even though they travelled with the apostle or were the apostle!

"Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.
But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."
2Cor 12:9

If God would heal the Paul, it would not be perfect!

I hope you dont want to say Paul did not have faith in healing. Or that the disease cannot be God´s will and have purpose in Christian life.

provethethorn

 

[wanderer6059]

"ties" is the appropriate description.

i aim to sever them...

 

[LaurenTM]

To add to that is protection. Have you ever had God's protection in a dangerous situation before you were even saved? I have several. Why would that happen without WoF?

hmmm

I'm seeing this as a bit of tie in to our last exchanges on the other thread

but I don't want to divert this thread more than it has already been hijacked

fellow gets his thread closed and smartly marches over here and has another go

more nerve than smarts IMO

if what you are doing does not work, doing it twice as hard is going to be twice as wrong

 

[CharlieGrown]

i aim to sever them...

well I guess you think that's noble, but it's a false doctrine you're trying to repair vs. embracing truth...your choice freewill and all.

 

[wanderer6059]

wanderer6059 the lack of exegetical discernment and simple contextual understandings is truly incredible. I actually dont know where to start. Understand scripture in its context. Half the verses you posted are of Christ healing which no one denys at all. Afterall he is God. 2 verses are talking of spiritual healing not physical healing so again please understand the context. James 5 is a structural approach and command to pray for healing not a claim it gift of healing type thing. And the rest of the OT scriptures are talking of an new kingdom. WHich is not here yet, but will be at the return of Christ.

ok so if even half are phyisical healing, many with Christ(who is still active through us His body) and it is not the new kingdom but the life in Christ! if He is still Alive and works through us, what has changed healing?

 

[CharlieGrown]

hmmm

I'm seeing this as a bit of tie in to our last exchanges on the other thread

but I don't want to divert this thread more than it has already been hijacked

fellow gets his thread closed and smartly marches over here and has another go

more nerve than smarts IMO

if what you are doing does not work, doing it twice as hard is going to be twice as wrong

Better post it Lauren, I don't think this thread will be open long either...

 

[wanderer6059]

well I guess you think that's noble, but it's a false doctrine you're trying to repair vs. embracing truth...your choice freewill and all.

i will burn the false doctrine to the grown and rebuild on the foundations of the truth that was in it

 

[LaurenTM]

I posted a link yesterday to a good article from a post WOF devotee...which was handily ignored

here is a timely excerpt from that article...this thread is already hijacked, but let's look at what someone who used to belong to the movement says

one thing WOF'ers do consistently...and I have personally seen this time and again when discussing their views...is to IGNORE or BRUSH OVER facts that offer contrary to the experience they teach

goes something like 'what dead body?'


Positive confession sometimes leads to dishonesty and superficial Christianity.

I have been around many believers who are afraid to be honest and admit they are struggling with their faith. This brings people into bondage and even a form of superficial religion. Some believers are like robots—when you ask them how they are doing, they routinely say, “I am blessed and highly favored!” However, I know some of these people, and they are merely trying to keep a positive confession even though their world is falling apart.

Now, I do believe in speaking the Word of God to our challenging circumstances and not giving in to negative talk, but that is different from what James 5:16 tells us when he exhorts believers to confess their faults one to another. Positive confession is good and biblical (Prov. 18:21) as long as it doesn’t stop a person from getting pastoral counsel and being honest with fellow believers when they need prayer.


source

 

[bluto]

brother if you read my post you will see 1 i never deny that sickness is real 2 that i believe in modern medicine(im an EMT) 3 Hagin himself believed in it to 4 see the scriptures i posted above

Ok then wanderer, hagin said it is always God's will to heal. So if a person is not healed like the two examples I gave you of Timothy and Erastus why were they not healed? And nobody here is denying that sickness is real, that is not the issue. Please address my first question about Timothy and Erastus?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[nowyouseem033]

you know the context of the word pray, you ask someone you don't know, some one you personally know you are much more assertive, especially if what you are asking for they have said previously they would give. if my dad said ill give you $20 tomaro, and tomaro comes i'm gonna say "please let me have that $20 you said i could have"

I understand what you are saying. But healing is not one of them. God doesnt gurantee you will be perfectly healthy and healed in this life.. He DOESNT!!! he does in the next life, but not this life. Even if you were healed from cancer, you ll still die. Hence maybe dont you think that healing takes upon itself a more significant role when we are talking of it happening in the new heavens and the new earth not the now heavens and now earth?

 

[CharlieGrown]

I posted a link yesterday to a good article from a post WOF devotee...which was handily ignored

here is a timely excerpt from that article...this thread is already hijacked, but let's look at what someone who used to belong to the movement says

one thing WOF'ers do consistently...and I have personally seen this time and again when discussing their views...is to IGNORE or BRUSH OVER facts that offer contrary to the experience they teach

goes something like 'what dead body?'


Positive confession sometimes leads to dishonesty and superficial Christianity.

I have been around many believers who are afraid to be honest and admit they are struggling with their faith. This brings people into bondage and even a form of superficial religion. Some believers are like robots—when you ask them how they are doing, they routinely say, “I am blessed and highly favored!” However, I know some of these people, and they are merely trying to keep a positive confession even though their world is falling apart.

Now, I do believe in speaking the Word of God to our challenging circumstances and not giving in to negative talk, but that is different from what James 5:16 tells us when he exhorts believers to confess their faults one to another. Positive confession is good and biblical (Prov. 18:21) as long as it doesn’t stop a person from getting pastoral counsel and being honest with fellow believers when they need prayer.


source

Exactly, reminds me of that film "The Stepford Wifes"

 

[wanderer6059]

so since your thread was closed due to the inflamatory nature of it and the name calling etc, you have now come on this thread and are using it the way you used the thread you started

but it's everyone else, right?

and by the way, this forum takes a strong stand against WOF...you stated they just call it doctrine

you should be reminded that this is what they actually think about it:

A) WoF is not a denomination, it is a doctrine

B) Most of orthodox Christianity (including the Admin team of this site) would consider WoF at best to be bad doctrine, and at worst to be outright heresy

there seems to be a disconnect with what people actually say and what you perceive

don't be confused, WOF is not an accepted biblical doctrine

stating you believe God will provide ignores everyone in bad situations, in poverty or famine but I expect to read that type of thing because in my experience with WOF defenders in various forums, they handily forget that Christianity is not confined to the United States

Lauren i will have no more communication with you on the subject of WoF, you don't want to talk and have a theological debate. so when it concerns WoF, have a nice life.

 

[LaurenTM]

Better post it Lauren, I don't think this thread will be open long either...

well...this thread was not started by mr wanderer...he lacks respect...the purpose of this thread, according to the op, was to take a look at scripture regarding the nature of the beast

since his thread was closed, he has used this thread to basically do the same as in the other thread

at this point, seems he wants to get himself banned...if not, he should leave off and not take over another person's thread with the intent to continue a thread that was shut down...thankfully

 

[wanderer6059]

Ok then wanderer, hagin said it is always God's will to heal. So if a person is not healed like the two examples I gave you of Timothy and Erastus why were they not healed? And nobody here is denying that sickness is real, that is not the issue. Please address my first question about Timothy and Erastus?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Hagin never said it was meant to be immediate and that healing comes through doctors too.

 

[trofimus]

provethethorn

I cant get any meaning from your answer.

 

[CharlieGrown]

well...this thread was not started by mr wanderer...he lacks respect...the purpose of this thread, according to the op, was to take a look at scripture regarding the nature of the beast

since his thread was closed, he has used this thread to basically do the same as in the other thread

at this point, seems he wants to get himself banned...if not, he should leave off and not take over another person's thread with the intent to continue a thread that was shut down...thankfully

Doh! I wasn't aware of that. Thanks. I'm bailing out, my apologies to the OP.

 

[stonesoffire]

I posted a link yesterday to a good article from a post WOF devotee...which was handily ignored

here is a timely excerpt from that article...this thread is already hijacked, but let's look at what someone who used to belong to the movement says

one thing WOF'ers do consistently...and I have personally seen this time and again when discussing their views...is to IGNORE or BRUSH OVER facts that offer contrary to the experience they teach

goes something like 'what dead body?'


Positive confession sometimes leads to dishonesty and superficial Christianity.

I have been around many believers who are afraid to be honest and admit they are struggling with their faith. This brings people into bondage and even a form of superficial religion. Some believers are like robots—when you ask them how they are doing, they routinely say, “I am blessed and highly favored!” However, I know some of these people, and they are merely trying to keep a positive confession even though their world is falling apart.

Now, I do believe in speaking the Word of God to our challenging circumstances and not giving in to negative talk, but that is different from what James 5:16 tells us when he exhorts believers to confess their faults one to another. Positive confession is good and biblical (Prov. 18:21) as long as it doesn’t stop a person from getting pastoral counsel and being honest with fellow believers when they need prayer.


source

positive confession, to me, is like teaching my parrot to talk.

But, to know that you know that you know that God is going to do what He promised? Faith. It comes with experience of His faithfulness.

 

[wanderer6059]

I understand what you are saying. But healing is not one of them. God doesnt gurantee you will be perfectly healthy and healed in this life.. He DOESNT!!! he does in the next life, but not this life. Even if you were healed from cancer, you ll still die. Hence maybe dont you think that healing takes upon itself a more significant role when we are talking of it happening in the new heavens and the new earth not the now heavens and now earth?

i agree the degeneration of the body and the physical death. but like i said we see healing in the Gospel, in acts, what changed?

 

[wanderer6059]

I cant get any meaning from your answer.

sorry prove what the thorn was

 

[LaurenTM]

Exactly, reminds me of that film "The Stepford Wifes"

there may be some truth to that!...conformity...don't apply any original thought or you will be accused of not having any faith!

here is another quote from the same article


[FONT=&quot]It can produce independent, narcissistic believers.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When the Word of Faith movement went from a stewardship-centered gospel to a rights-centered gospel, it also attracted many self-focused people—people who used God as an excuse for their lavish lifestyles and who frowned upon those living in simplicity. Unfortunately, this teaching often appealed to the narcissistic tendencies in all of us, and many large ministries were built more upon the American Dream of having a nice house and a nice car than upon taking up our cross and following Jesus. Jesus said in Luke 14:33 that we have to lose everything in order to be His disciple, but many in this movement only focus on what we gain. Truly, you can’t be resurrected until you first go to the cross![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]