What’s involved in doing God’s will unto salvation?

[mailmandan]

Paul said disqualified for the prize, not disqualified for the gift of eternal life. In context, Paul has been discussing preaching the gospel. In verse 18 he says, "What is my reward, then?" In verses 24-27 he illustrates this thought of his reward by the picture of a race run for the prize. We must pay attention to the context—this passage concerns reward, prize not losing salvation. Salvation is a gift that we receive by grace through faith, not a prize that we race for to win.

Verse 24 settles the matter for me. 24 - Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. That sounds like running a race in the Olympics. All runners run but only one gets the gold medal. So what happens to the runners that get the silver medal or bronze medal or finish the race with no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or from the prize, receiving the gold medal?

 

[Grandpa]

I recognize these verses, but what do we do with those verses that say ...
we must practice righteousness to be righteous (to be considered such by God)?

And verses such as this totally destroy you ...

Roman 8:13 "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live."

Galatians 3:3 [FONT=&quot]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

[/FONT]And your answer to this is 'yes'?

I don't think that is the correct answer that Paul was looking for...


The correct answer should have been no. No, we're not so foolish. No, we are not perfected by our flesh and our own effort and will.

Maybe you should google it.

 

[PeterJens]

5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.
6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.
8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

2 Thess 1:5-10

Paul is passionate. We are not in a passive faith, but one of active response,
being counted worthy, to run the race, to get the prize.

Think this is passive surrender, nope

 

[Grace777x70]

Those who "do not obey the gospel" are unbelievers in the work of Christ for salvation and life.

Being "obedient to the faith" is believing in Christ and His work for us for life and living.

Notice here that even the law-keeping priests need to be "obedient to the faith". The keeping of the law of Moses is NOT the same as being "obedient to the faith".

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.


Pagans/Gentiles also need to be "obedient to the faith" and believe in Christ and what He has done for life and living.

Romans 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,


All people of all types are called to be "obedient to the faith" - which is belief in Christ alone for life and living.

Romans 16:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

 

[PeterJens]

Pauls heart -

The apostles went to their deaths testifying to the Lord and His victory.
The disciples in the churches were heavily persecuted, but stood their ground.

The principle is simple. Gods way is the way of the Kingdom. Compromise is not an option
But cowards, liars, give in and run away.

The seed and the sower. Persecution comes and they leave.
The letters to the churches in revelations, are about overcoming, rising to victory.

It is not a done deal, you know the Lord and just sit back and enjoy the ride.
The world is corrupt and destroys everything, either stand for love and truth
in Christ or be washed away.

People are not earning their salvation, they are staying in it and not compromising.
The idea being put forward by the opposition camp, is to believe you can compromise,
and it does not matter is real faith, rather scripture declares this is everything, the fight
has always been love and righteousness in Christ is the foundation of everything, no
compromise, or you are giving up on life.

 

[Grandpa]

Pauls heart -

The apostles went to their deaths testifying to the Lord and His victory.
The disciples in the churches were heavily persecuted, but stood their ground.

The principle is simple. Gods way is the way of the Kingdom. Compromise is not an option
But cowards, liars, give in and run away.

The seed and the sower. Persecution comes and they leave.
The letters to the churches in revelations, are about overcoming, rising to victory.

It is not a done deal, you know the Lord and just sit back and enjoy the ride.
The world is corrupt and destroys everything, either stand for love and truth
in Christ or be washed away.

People are not earning their salvation, they are staying in it and not compromising.
The idea being put forward by the opposition camp, is to believe you can compromise,
and it does not matter is real faith, rather scripture declares this is everything, the fight
has always been love and righteousness in Christ is the foundation of everything, no
compromise, or you are giving up on life.

The idea that you put forward is that you are more powerful than God and have more understanding as well.

Only you can keep yourself in salvation as God doesn't have the power or the understanding.


Why would you oppose those who put their ENTIRE faith in Christ and none in themselves and their own understanding and power?

 

[PeterJens]

ὑπακοὴν - ​

obedience – literally, "submission to what is heard"

Obedience - has actually doing what you are told, it is not just believing something.

This is just taking an interpretation to fit ones own theology that does not exist.
So when Jesus says, my friends are those who obey my words he meant who
believe my words.

Put it another way, you can do what you like, just believe the words.

This is literally nonsense. If I say "follow me" all that means is agree with me
but stay where you are. Nope, it means get up and physically follow me.

But the group here are not interested in Jesus's real meaning or teaching, just
their version. Now guess what this means, God is made below a doctrinal view,
rather than changing the doctrinal view to fit Jesus's eternal words.

 

[Grace777x70]

Be"obedient to the faith". Here is an example of it.

Acts 16:29-31 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas,

[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

 

[PeterJens]

The idea that you put forward is that you are more powerful than God and have more understanding as well.
Only you can keep yourself in salvation as God doesn't have the power or the understanding.
Why would you oppose those who put their ENTIRE faith in Christ and none in themselves and their own understanding and power?

I am not saying this. I am saying you can take a stand on faith and then walk away.
It is called compromise or losing your faith. Not a difficult reality that all churches face.

If you do evangelism, very few last through the years to progress and stay in church.
But people appear to be saying, no they are all saved, they are in Gods hands.

God is saying, obey, stay true to your calling and you will win through, to stand in the faith.

Now how you change this into I or anybody is earning salvation, rather than staying in
salvation is what distortion really is. But it is your view obviously, thankfully I trust
Jesus and His love, to carry my cross and walk in His ways. Why would I not, unless
I have lost the insight into who He is. If I have lost this, why should He honour me?

 

[PeterJens]

The idea that you put forward is that you are more powerful than God and have more understanding as well.

Do not understand your logic here. I am more powerful than God and more understanding.
I am sure you are happy in your own ideas, but completely at a loss.

But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
Matt 10:33

Now imagine a believer, who has lost their faith, and denies Jesus and all he stands for.
What is Jesus saying here?

I think it is very clear.

What does Paul say about staying in the faith.

For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
2 Tim 4:6-8

Paul has kept the faith, stayed true to his calling and knows God will award
him the crown of righteousness, salvation.

For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter had tempted you and that our labors might have been in vain.
1 Thess 3:5

Paul is saying here faith is everything, staying alive and responding.
But he fears that people have abandoned the faith, and so his labour is in vain.

Now if people did not loose salvation as a result of loosing faith, why have this fear?

 

[PeterJens]

My obvious spiritual observation.

If you believe everyone is safe, nothing can challenge your standing in Christ
to read any doubt to this would be emotionally very hard to take.

On the other hand, if I read the words, knowing I walk in faith and love of my
Lord, there is no fear, because I know His heart and His anointing of me.
Why should I fear Him or His faithfulness to me, because I abide in Him.

But if I am not abiding in Him, if I have lost my faith, and disown Him, what
reassurance have I got? Very little because He declared I would be disowned,
that I had become His enemy, that all the good things would be forgotten and
my sins remember on the day of judgement.

There is no earning salvation, it is knowing the line and the battle and where you
stand. If your family, reputation, money are a stake, would you sell out your
faith or the opposite?

Jesus calls us to hate our families compared to staying true to Him, to accept
persecution and rejection in His name, because we have treasure in heaven.

But it sounds all these words, concepts are actually a lie and wrong.

Except I know Christ and what is written, so I know where my heart is.

 

[Cee]

This is the will of God believe on Him who was sent.
And love one another as He has loved you.

 

[Cee]

Actually the opposition camp, says why would you want to compromise when you've experienced the love of God? Once you do, you're forever changed. Just like Paul, just like the disciples, just like millions of believers around the world. We can never minimize His love. It is what transforms us, not our own effort. And not fear, that we will "lose" something we never earned in the first place.

Pauls heart -

The apostles went to their deaths testifying to the Lord and His victory.
The disciples in the churches were heavily persecuted, but stood their ground.

The principle is simple. Gods way is the way of the Kingdom. Compromise is not an option
But cowards, liars, give in and run away.

The seed and the sower. Persecution comes and they leave.
The letters to the churches in revelations, are about overcoming, rising to victory.

It is not a done deal, you know the Lord and just sit back and enjoy the ride.
The world is corrupt and destroys everything, either stand for love and truth
in Christ or be washed away.

People are not earning their salvation, they are staying in it and not compromising.
The idea being put forward by the opposition camp, is to believe you can compromise,
and it does not matter is real faith, rather scripture declares this is everything, the fight
has always been love and righteousness in Christ is the foundation of everything, no
compromise, or you are giving up on life.

 

[Cee]

If you believe you can lose God's free gift, did you ever receive it? And even more-so can you freely give it away? If you believe you have to earn it, won't you believe other's have to earn love too?

 

[VCO]

Salvation is not a "prize". You can't win it. You can only freely receive it as the free gift of God in Christ Jesus that it is.........or not.

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact the kind of CROWN that Paul was talking is the Laurel Wreath Crowns, that were awarded to the winners in the Olympic style of games in Paul's day:

1 Corinthians 9:24-25 (NKJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.

AND NOW, . . . . . . . the Rest of the Story, to imitate Paul Harvey.

When those athletes of Paul's day won a crown, they would walk over to front row center in the Stadium, where the Kings were seated, KNEEL before their King, take off their Crown, and Cast it at their King's feet stating: "I won this for you my King."

Are we going to get to cast our Crowns at our KING of Kings feet?

How embarrassing would it be to have to say, "I had one, but I lost it."?

 

[VCO]

I recognize these verses, but what do we do with those verses that say ...
we must practice righteousness to be righteous (to be considered such by God)?

And verses such as this totally destroy you ...

Roman 8:13 "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live."

BAD THEOLOGY:


Romans 5:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.


The only pure motive for Obeying Him, is to show our Love for HIM, the one who shed HIS blood to make us righteous in GOD's sight.

 

[PeterJens]

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.
John 3:14-15

You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 18:4

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."
John 14:23-24

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matt 7:13-14

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Matt 11:28-30

The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
John 10:2-3

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

1 Believe in Christ,
2 Obey His teaching,
3 Follow the narrow road,
4 Take His yoke upon you
5 Listen to His voice,
6 Follow His lead,
7 Put His teaching into practice.

Now this is very plain and obviously driven by love.

If you fail to obey, you do not love Jesus.

Now what makes me wonder is why in some hearts people rebel against the words of
Christ.

Paul says through Christ we have overcome the flesh and walk in love as slaves
to righteousness. And love fulfills the law.

The more I look the clearer it becomes. Obeying the law for its own sake was always
going to fail because love does not dwell in the heart. Get the love right, and all falls
into place. Jesus and the cross demonstrates without argument Gods love, so the final
demonstration of the path to righteousness has been completed.

And what is Pauls crown? A crown of righteousness.

Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
2 Tim 4:8

We are called to the path to walk it.

 

[PeterJens]

One overriding theme is returning.

Obedience is driven by fear not love.

Jesus says the opposite, to love Him is to obey. And people seem to also be saying obedience
is so difficult.

Jesus says His yoke is easy and His burden is light. If sounds like the burden people are
carrying is heavy and the path is very hard. Somewhere something has gone wrong.

The powerhouse of Christ is love working out from the heart into every relationship
the believer has. This changes what we see in others and what we want to happen.

But this is not understood or even seen.
The heart is left alone and some religious construct of arriving and God doing it all
without any believer involvement is created.

Unreal theory, and where are these worked out mature followers of Christ shinning
like lights. Or are we actually seeing corrupt self obsessed, bloated, rich, indulgent,
greedy preachers who have generated a machine which just generates more wealth
and power to themselves, while leaving a confused and lost flock behind.

And worse still this flock feel it is there duty to destory the real work of Christ in
the hearts of believers, and persecute and rebuke them for walking in obedience
and calling them fallen sinful hypocrites trying to earn their salvation. Now that is
quite a work of the enemy.

 

[mailmandan]

I recognize these verses, but what do we do with those verses that say ...
we must practice righteousness to be righteous (to be considered such by God)?

1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. Children of God do not practice righteousness in order to become righteous, but BECAUSE they are righteous.

And verses such as this totally destroy you ...

Roman 8:13 "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live."

Read it all: Romans 8:5 - For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

 

[PeterJens]

Theology that follows the word

Believe, obey, follow, walk, learn, road, prize, stand, victorious, faith, kingdoms.

When do we know truly we are in the Kingdom? When we see Jesus face to face.

What is the walk? Between being a sinner to a righteous saint.

Is this change instantaneous? Spiritually in conversation, but no not in everything.

The error is in saying you earn something, or are static, and it happens to you like
travelling in a car to a destination. No you become someone different, you are changed
through ones walk. God is doing the changing as you obey and walk along.

The process of obedience makes you into a mature creation, a fulfillment of the new
creation you became at believing on Christ. By giving you receive, by forgiving you are
healed, by confessing Jesus's blood cleanses your conscience, by repenting you see the
beauty of righteousness and the destruction of sin.