Tongues Again???
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According to scripture the prophecy was given to and for Israel. No the church has not replaces Israel, the part of Israel that will believe but the part of Israel that comes to Christ in this age will be included in the church. God is not finished with Israel. The end time prophecies are about Israel not the church.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I agree with this Roger. But, aren't they supposed to accept a false messiah first? Am not too up on end time events but Paul did say all Israel would be saved and he was referring to the nation. So the dispersed have come and are still coming back to their land.
Just wondering when this event will occur. But, that doesn't prove that the gifts have stopped. The body of Christ (don't like the term churches) is just that. Connected to the head and Holy Spirit is current, not ended. Plus current like electricity too.
That last sentence may cause some stirring but hopefully it will be a good stirring and not outrage.
Just wondering when this event will occur. But, that doesn't prove that the gifts have stopped. The body of Christ (don't like the term churches) is just that. Connected to the head and Holy Spirit is current, not ended. Plus current like electricity too.
That last sentence may cause some stirring but hopefully it will be a good stirring and not outrage.
You think you want to trade barbs? Well when it comes to being ignorant I will certainly defer to your well established expertise.
Why do we resort to science to establish something we attribute to God? Oh yeah there's no scriptural evidence to support the contention that it is of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Why do we resort to science to establish something we attribute to God? Oh yeah there's no scriptural evidence to support the contention that it is of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
real, true science supports what God has said.
you can see in scripture that tongues was a sign of the fulfilled new covenant. and that it had a connection with being filled with the Holy Ghost. and in the epistles it was a gift that believes needed to control and regulate.
thinking its just people speaking other languages is ignorant, and if you read the bible it makes no scene why apart from Pentecost and Cornelius.
you can see in scripture that tongues was a sign of the fulfilled new covenant. and that it had a connection with being filled with the Holy Ghost. and in the epistles it was a gift that believes needed to control and regulate.
thinking its just people speaking other languages is ignorant, and if you read the bible it makes no scene why apart from Pentecost and Cornelius.
Wow how could I have missed it? All this time I thought that the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ from the tomb was the sign of the new covenant being fulfilled.
Focus on Christ and you will find tongues as presented in the Pentecostal and charismatic movements are no longer needed and do not promote the gospel of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Focus on Christ and you will find tongues as presented in the Pentecostal and charismatic movements are no longer needed and do not promote the gospel of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
actually, most scripture about tongues point toward them being unknown, but real languages. Not some sort of nonsensical gibberish.
Go back and read every scripture you can find about tongues, and look at it with the belief they are talking about known, real languages, and you will see that it makes a lot more sense, in the sense that tongues were given to convince unbelievers that the Spirit was genuine.
To prove that to unbelievers would take a believable miraculous event that could not be "explained away".
People instantly speaking in gibberish would not do that. Even the most gullible unbeliever would see through that.
But to start speaking a known language that you had never studied? Now THAT is a miracle, and a sign to unbelievers.
To believe otherwise is your trying to make the scripture fit what YOU believe, not fitting your belief to what scripture is saying.
Go back and read every scripture you can find about tongues, and look at it with the belief they are talking about known, real languages, and you will see that it makes a lot more sense, in the sense that tongues were given to convince unbelievers that the Spirit was genuine.
To prove that to unbelievers would take a believable miraculous event that could not be "explained away".
People instantly speaking in gibberish would not do that. Even the most gullible unbeliever would see through that.
But to start speaking a known language that you had never studied? Now THAT is a miracle, and a sign to unbelievers.
To believe otherwise is your trying to make the scripture fit what YOU believe, not fitting your belief to what scripture is saying.
Great story. Goes along with something I experienced.
Someout of town friends and I were walking down the Venice boardwalk, a beach fronttourist trap where the Hare Krishna’s like to hang out and recruit. So we comeacross a group of about 15 of them, with more arriving. They’re chanting andsinging and beatin’ the tambourines and drums, and showing every sign of justgetting started. They call out to passersby to join them, and my friends stopto watch for a moment.
My ‘spideysenses’ went into full alarm. I step back and quietly to myself I start speakingin the Spirit. In my mind I am thinking to bind, silence, and disperse the demons and their humans but I don't know what the actual words were that my lips were saying. In my mindask that angels be sent to occupy them and to push them away. I continue until myfriends want to move on, and so we do. We walk another block and a half, decidethat’s far enough, and turn around to start back.
When wecome back to the place the Krishnas had been, there’s no sign of them. Exceptfor 2 down by the water talking to themselves, they were all gone with the wind.This was no more than five minutes later. And they'll usually hang out for hours.Totally vanished. My friends even commented on, what happened where werethey?
I don't know what my lips were saying. But I have to assume it was something along the lines of what my mind was praying, because God honored the prayer and dispersed the evil. And in the process kept who knows how many people from being recruited.
That's why I say, you have to compare scripture with what's happening with boots on the ground. When God says do such and such and things will happen, then I do or see others doing such and such with the result of these things happening, I have no other option than to think that what God says and what I see are totally related. Those who dismiss God's word on these things are horribly wrong and missing out on some of His greatest miracles!
Someout of town friends and I were walking down the Venice boardwalk, a beach fronttourist trap where the Hare Krishna’s like to hang out and recruit. So we comeacross a group of about 15 of them, with more arriving. They’re chanting andsinging and beatin’ the tambourines and drums, and showing every sign of justgetting started. They call out to passersby to join them, and my friends stopto watch for a moment.
My ‘spideysenses’ went into full alarm. I step back and quietly to myself I start speakingin the Spirit. In my mind I am thinking to bind, silence, and disperse the demons and their humans but I don't know what the actual words were that my lips were saying. In my mindask that angels be sent to occupy them and to push them away. I continue until myfriends want to move on, and so we do. We walk another block and a half, decidethat’s far enough, and turn around to start back.
When wecome back to the place the Krishnas had been, there’s no sign of them. Exceptfor 2 down by the water talking to themselves, they were all gone with the wind.This was no more than five minutes later. And they'll usually hang out for hours.Totally vanished. My friends even commented on, what happened where werethey?
I don't know what my lips were saying. But I have to assume it was something along the lines of what my mind was praying, because God honored the prayer and dispersed the evil. And in the process kept who knows how many people from being recruited.
That's why I say, you have to compare scripture with what's happening with boots on the ground. When God says do such and such and things will happen, then I do or see others doing such and such with the result of these things happening, I have no other option than to think that what God says and what I see are totally related. Those who dismiss God's word on these things are horribly wrong and missing out on some of His greatest miracles!
That depends on what you mean by 'known languages.' The 'tongues' are known by someone. In Acts 2, they were known by some of those present. But in I Corinthians 14, in the context of a church meeting, 'no man understandeth' the one who speaks in tongues. So it is not the general rule that someone present will understand the speaking in tongues. There is no reference to anyone present understanding in Acts 10 or Acts 19, either. God can sovereignly arrange to have someone present who understand the languages.
I've come across three references to people hearing their own language being spoken 'in tongues' at Azusa Street. I've talked with four people who have either experienced hearing a language they knew 'in tongues' or had others know what they were saying in their own language when they spoke in tongues.
Tongues are a sign to them that believe not. Paul gives a scenario of an unbeliever or uninstructed person hearing speaking in tongues and saying 'ye are mad.' This was an example of how the prophecy is fulfilled 'and yet for all that, they will not hear you.' When people hear tongues and respond with unbelief, that scripture is fulfilled. Even on the day of Pentecost, speaking in tongues was met with scoffing.
Here is a quote from an early commentator who saw the same point in scripture.
“They spoke with foreign languages (and not those of their native land); and the wonder was great, a language spoken by those who had not learned it. And the sign is to them that believe not, and not to them that believe, that it may be an accusation of the unbelievers, as it is written, ‘With other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people, and not even so will they listen to Me says the Lord”‘ (Isa 28:11, 1 Co 14:22). —St. Gregory the Theologian (Oration 41, XV)
I got that from Patristics – The Writings of the Ancient Church.
I read the passage many, many times before I got it. (I memorized it as a teen in Bible Quiz). Finally, the light bulb went off. Some people just read 'tongues is a sign' without seeing how it fits into the surrounding context, particularly about the man responding to tongues with unbelief.
I've come across three references to people hearing their own language being spoken 'in tongues' at Azusa Street. I've talked with four people who have either experienced hearing a language they knew 'in tongues' or had others know what they were saying in their own language when they spoke in tongues.
Tongues are a sign to them that believe not. Paul gives a scenario of an unbeliever or uninstructed person hearing speaking in tongues and saying 'ye are mad.' This was an example of how the prophecy is fulfilled 'and yet for all that, they will not hear you.' When people hear tongues and respond with unbelief, that scripture is fulfilled. Even on the day of Pentecost, speaking in tongues was met with scoffing.
Here is a quote from an early commentator who saw the same point in scripture.
“They spoke with foreign languages (and not those of their native land); and the wonder was great, a language spoken by those who had not learned it. And the sign is to them that believe not, and not to them that believe, that it may be an accusation of the unbelievers, as it is written, ‘With other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people, and not even so will they listen to Me says the Lord”‘ (Isa 28:11, 1 Co 14:22). —St. Gregory the Theologian (Oration 41, XV)
I got that from Patristics – The Writings of the Ancient Church.
I read the passage many, many times before I got it. (I memorized it as a teen in Bible Quiz). Finally, the light bulb went off. Some people just read 'tongues is a sign' without seeing how it fits into the surrounding context, particularly about the man responding to tongues with unbelief.
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Mar_5:41 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.
Again, ancient Chaldee here. Why not Aramaic? Wasn't that the language spoken then? Could this be effectual fervent prayer? It certainly was effective, and am sure He was fervent. Why speak something that needs interpreted again?
Again, ancient Chaldee here. Why not Aramaic? Wasn't that the language spoken then? Could this be effectual fervent prayer? It certainly was effective, and am sure He was fervent. Why speak something that needs interpreted again?
The other aspect to this is that Jesus as the Son of Man - if He did speak in tongues to His Father from His spirit - He would have just been using it as a devotional tongue and no one would have heard Him as it is just between the Father and our spirit. ( There would be no need for it's use as a tongue and interpretation as there was no church then )
In saying that - it is all conjecture as it no where says that Jesus spoke with other tongues to His Father - but I would not be surprised to find out that it was true - when we get to heaven...
In saying that - it is all conjecture as it no where says that Jesus spoke with other tongues to His Father - but I would not be surprised to find out that it was true - when we get to heaven...
There are over 7,000 languages now in the earth. I wonder how many languages there have been that are now extinct?
Here is a youtube video talking about some of them that are so weird you would not believe it was a language. They sound like a bunch of "babbling" to me...lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXDbcOKEHfc
Here is a youtube video talking about some of them that are so weird you would not believe it was a language. They sound like a bunch of "babbling" to me...lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXDbcOKEHfc
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