Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

nowyouseem033 · Dec 8, 2016

Matthew Henrys commentary on this so called 'physical healing'

53:4-9 In these verses is an account of the sufferings of Christ; also of the design of his sufferings. It was for our sins, and in our stead, that our Lord Jesus suffered. We have all sinned, and have come short of the glory of God. Sinners have their beloved sin, their own evil way, of which they are fond. Our sins deserve all griefs and sorrows, even the most severe. We are saved from the ruin, to which by sin we become liable, by laying our sins on Christ. This atonement was to be made for our sins. And this is the only way of salvation. Our sins were the thorns in Christ's head, the nails in his hands and feet, the spear in his side. He was delivered to death for our offences. By his sufferings he purchased for us the Spirit and grace of God, to mortify our corruptions, which are the distempers of our souls. We may well endure our lighter sufferings, if He has taught us to esteem all things but loss for him, and to love him who has first loved us.

nowyouseem033 · Dec 8, 2016

Matthew Pooles commentary on so called 'physical healing'

But; but this was a most false and unrighteous sentence.

He was wounded; which word comprehends all his pains and punishments, and his death among and above the rest.

For our transgressions; not by them, which is expressed by another particle, not by the wickedness of the Jews; but for or because of them, as this particle commonly signifies, for the guilt of their sins, which he had voluntarily taken upon himself, and for the expiation of their sins, which was hereby purchased and procured of God for men. Which interpretation is confirmed,

1. By the opposition of this truth to the false opinion mentioned in the foregoing clause, that he was smitten of God for the guilt of his own sins.

2. By the following clause, as we shall see.

3. By the nature of the thing; this being evident from scriptures both from the Old and New Testament, that Christ was not to suffer for his own, but for other men’s sins. See Daniel 9:24,26.

The chastisement of our peace; those punishments by which our peace, i.e. our reconciliation to God, and salvation, or happiness, was to be purchased.

Was upon him; was laid upon him by God’s justice with his own consent.

With his stripes we are healed; by his sufferings we are saved from our sins, and from the dreadful effects thereof.

nowyouseem033 · Dec 8, 2016

So again and again whoever claims 'physical healing' in Isaiah 53 clearly doesn't know how to read a text within a context. Commentators themselves dont even doubt that its talking of a spiritual healing as noted above. Please, you commit a categorical error in 'assuming' it means physical simply because it says healing. Fact is, the text itself tells us if its talking of a physical healing or spiritual healing.

samuel23 · Dec 8, 2016

You don't have to be in the WOF movement in order to exercise faith in God, if you are a real Christian then you have already practiced the kind of faith in God that pleases the Lord. When I was in WOF I seen people professing faith for things that never really happened but everyone would pretend that they happened. It all seemed so fake to me. I have seen God answer prayers but never because people were confessing what they wanted or because they gave money. God is a Person and not just a force and He decides what, when, and how to answer our prayers.

nowyouseem033 · Dec 8, 2016

Jeremiah 17:14 is actually a bad scripture to bring up for word of faith believers.

Because though Jeremiah inquires God for healing, (which is not a WOF teaching) God actually doesnt heal him. Theres a big difference in saying Can God Heal? which we all agree he can...and...God must/will heal? Which is presuming upon God and then blackmailing him by citing these out of context verses. LLOL

wanderer6059 · Dec 9, 2016

nowyouseem033 said:

in the verse healing is used for healing of individual distresses, compared to the salvation through His deliverance. Jer is comparing his healing to the restoration of Gods people when they seek Him. Jer knowing his own sins and failings, and of the part which he himself had in failing the people being conscious of his own inadequacy to heal himself but being fully satisfied of the power of the Lord to heal him knew full well and assured if he was healed by him, he should be thoroughly and effectually healed. its a verse about when you have fallen that god is still for you, you just need to call, speak to Him.

and if you read later in 30:17 and other time God said he would Heal and it ties his(jers) healing with the restoration of Israel.

wanderer6059 · Dec 9, 2016

bluto said:

heres some history.

Rev. Kenneth Erwin Hagin was born on Aug. 20, 1917, in McKinney, Texas. Diagnosed with "a deformed heart and an incurable blood disease" from birth, Hagin was partially paralyzed by age 15, confined to bed, and told he had little time to live.

In April 1933, Hagin said, his heart stopped beating, and his other vital signs failed three times. In each of these instances, Hagin said he felt himself being dragged to hell. In the third instance, he prayed for Christ's help and forgiveness—and came back to life.

The miracle would define the rest of his life, and he took as one of his life verses Mark 11:24: "What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." By 1934, Hagin said, he had believed that he would be fully healed, and he was. At age 17, after his high school graduation, Hagin began preaching in a predominantly Southern Baptist interdenominational church in Roland, Texas. But Hagin's emphasis on miracles and divine healing soon led him to the Pentecostals. He became an Assemblies of God minister in 1937, pastoring six churches until deciding in 1950 (after what he said was an appearance by Jesus) to become an itinerant healing evangelist.

He is considered by many to be a father of the "Word of Faith" and "Positive Confession" movements, which critics summarize as "name it and claim it." Hagin put it differently: "Say it, Do it, Receive it, and Tell it."

"Often you create your own negative situations yourself with wrong thinking, wrong believing, and wrong speaking," Hagin wrote. "So start believing according to God's Word. Then begin making positive confessions of faith and victory over your life. … If you don't like what you have in life, then begin to change the way you are thinking, believing, and speaking. Instead of speaking according to natural circumstances out of your head, learn to speak God's Word from your spirit. Begin to confess God's promises of life and health and victory into your situation. Then you can begin to enjoy God's abundant life as you have what you say!"

and my church is Rhema while i'm here at school, back home it is City Life.

wanderer6059 · Dec 9, 2016

https://kennethcopelandblog.com/2008/11/11/rev-hagins-previous-rebuke-of-copeland/

and here Bluto you might like this...

bluto · Dec 10, 2016

Ok wanderer, let's see where were at? I am familar with kenneth hagin's history and I am also aware of him having a meeting with copeland and others. Just for the sake of argument let's just throw out the prosperity aspect of the prosperity message. You still have other issues which are not orthodox beliefs. And btw, "orthodox" in the Greek means "right belief." However, this begs the question as to who determines who has the right belief?

One of the teachings of wof/hagin is the fact that physical healing is "GUARANTED" in the atonement. In other words, God has to heal you. Sister angela brought this up extensively in a couple of her post regarding Isaiah 53 where it says "By His stripes ye are healed." The context of this is we are healed from the sickness of sin.

In fact the Apostle Peter brought up Isaiah 53 at 1 Peter 2:24,25. "and He Himself bor our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; FOR BY HIS WOUNDS YOU WERE HEALED." Vs25, For (or because) you were continually staying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls." This has to be talking about spiritual healing and not physical healing because the sheep do not continue to stray away from physcial healing.

All the wor'ers over the years that I have known love to quote these verses from 1 Peter and they all disregard the context. So here we have an issue from hagin that is not Biblical. He also teaches about "positive confession" as opposed to "negative confession." He teaches to "chant" postively. He tells many many stories of Jesus Christ appearing to him personally and telling him what he should do etc.

You should also know that I use to have four big boxes of many of hagin's books, pahphlets, and tapes including from copeland, hinn, fred price, john avanzini who said Jesus wore designer clothes and lived in a mansion while here on earth and many others. I gave them all away to former wof friends. Then there is the matter of the videos of hagin and others acting like fools. And as a side note wanderer? You made a comment to angela where you said to her, "I suppose your one those "OSAS" people." Wof'ers teach against this and I'll show you the documentation for it.

And like others have said that have been in the wof movement were just trying to save you from going through a life of misery now while you still very young. Like Jesus said, "if you ask for bread I'm not going to give you a rock ."

PS: Here's hagin in action. KENNETH HAGIN - FALSE TEACHER | SO4J.com

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

samuel23 · Dec 10, 2016

The holy laughter was the final nail in the coffin for me...there is no way that could be the Spirit of God.

nowyouseem033 · Dec 11, 2016

wanderer6059 said:

Again the point in turn is that Jeremiah never received physical healing. He was sawn in two and continued out his days in misery and suffering but still trusted in the Lord, something WOF people cannot comprehend. Again he was NOT PHYSICALLY HEALED!!! FACT!! To post a text like this as proof of physical healing inquiry is one thing but as proof of physically healing mandate is quite another. I suggest perhaps reading a little more into it, than simply finding a text that says healing and FAILING to make distinctions and FAILING to take into account the context.

nowyouseem033 · Dec 11, 2016

wanderer6059 said:

heres some history.

Rev. Kenneth Erwin Hagin was born on Aug. 20, 1917, in McKinney, Texas. Diagnosed with "a deformed heart and an incurable blood disease" from birth, Hagin was partially paralyzed by age 15, confined to bed, and told he had little time to live.

In April 1933, Hagin said, his heart stopped beating, and his other vital signs failed three times. In each of these instances, Hagin said he felt himself being dragged to hell. In the third instance, he prayed for Christ's help and forgiveness—and came back to life.

The miracle would define the rest of his life, and he took as one of his life verses Mark 11:24: "What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." By 1934, Hagin said, he had believed that he would be fully healed, and he was. At age 17, after his high school graduation, Hagin began preaching in a predominantly Southern Baptist interdenominational church in Roland, Texas. But Hagin's emphasis on miracles and divine healing soon led him to the Pentecostals. He became an Assemblies of God minister in 1937, pastoring six churches until deciding in 1950 (after what he said was an appearance by Jesus) to become an itinerant healing evangelist.

He is considered by many to be a father of the "Word of Faith" and "Positive Confession" movements, which critics summarize as "name it and claim it." Hagin put it differently: "Say it, Do it, Receive it, and Tell it."

"Often you create your own negative situations yourself with wrong thinking, wrong believing, and wrong speaking," Hagin wrote. "So start believing according to God's Word. Then begin making positive confessions of faith and victory over your life. … If you don't like what you have in life, then begin to change the way you are thinking, believing, and speaking. Instead of speaking according to natural circumstances out of your head, learn to speak God's Word from your spirit. Begin to confess God's promises of life and health and victory into your situation. Then you can begin to enjoy God's abundant life as you have what you say!"

and my church is Rhema while i'm here at school, back home it is City Life.

Plus associating yourself with these WOF teachers is unhealthy and quite dangerous as a christian. Im glad you are aware of the teachings but not calling out WOF teachings as heresy only aligns yourself with it even if it is minute.

Depleted · Dec 11, 2016

Just bumping this up to counter the malarky posts since this one started.

LaurenTM · Dec 11, 2016

The miracle would define the rest of his life, and he took as one of his life verses Mark 11:24: "What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." By 1934, Hagin said, he had believed that he would be fully healed, and he was. At age 17, after his high school graduation, Hagin began preaching in a predominantly Southern Baptist interdenominational church in Roland, Texas. But Hagin's emphasis on miracles and divine healing soon led him to the Pentecostals. He became an Assemblies of God minister in 1937, pastoring six churches until deciding in 1950 (after what he said was an appearance by Jesus) to become an itinerant healing evangelist.

He is considered by many to be a father of the "Word of Faith" and "Positive Confession" movements, which critics summarize as "name it and claim it." Hagin put it differently: "Say it, Do it, Receive it, and Tell it."

Hagin did not come up with the idea...E.W. Kenyon, an 'evangelist' who died in 1948, is the actual originator of this doctrine

Hagin plagiarized Kenyon.

samuel23 · Dec 11, 2016

The error in WOF is not really in the area of faith ,we need faith in order to please God. A big error in word of faith is that they have mixed the Old Covenant in with the New Covenant in an attempt to give their selves God like power in this life. Supernatural health and wealth was given under the Old Covenant but not under the New Covenant. Example, when the people of Israel left Egypt they had supernatural wealth given to them by the Egyptians and supernatural health, not a single person was sick(that is supernatural). The church on the other hand had natural poverty and sickness(as would befall any group of people) from the beginning and always has had. The church is better because we are given the Holy Spirit and the promise of the world to come. In the church we can ask for healing or even money if we need it, however the answer depends on the plan of God. Israel was all about getting things in this life while the church is about the life to come. WOF is mostly about using God to get what you want in this life. Where WOF really proved itself to be false is when the leaders choose to live a rich persons lifestyle. A true servant of God would have choose the lifestyle of the common man.

wanderer6059 · Dec 11, 2016

nowyouseem033 said:

how can you be sawn in half and live? lol do you even know what you are talking about. i think you are confused. Isaiah was (not proven but theorized) sawn in half. while Jer was in his last days sent to Egypt to live out his days. AND FACT IS IT NEVER SAYS HE WAS NOT HEALED, BUT GOD SAID HE WOULD HEAL HIM AND IF HE SAYS HE IS GOING TO HE DOES. the post of this text is to keep strong in face of you infirmity, its something to remember when going through something like chemo, knowing God has you in that fight. how much context do you actually know when you fail to know the fate of the guy you are talking about.... SMH

wanderer6059 · Dec 11, 2016

LaurenTM said:

proof of this?

wanderer6059 · Dec 11, 2016

bluto said:

i would like to ask then, who does determine what a belief is right when you can find support for both sides of a argument? see more below.

bluto said:

ok now let me ask you this in my past post i gave evidence that Healing goes with atonement, there is context to support it, the only way you can disprove it is if you have a way to prove that healing is not part of it, do you? can you post anywhere in the NT where it says we will suffer sickness, illness, or disease? i am honestly asking, can you show me a spot where if we ask Him to take it, He won't?

bluto said:

Bluto, i know you are, and i thank you for that heart. but i tell you this i am one of the most skeptical people when it comes to faith healing. i am and EMT, i know the body i see people come up for healing, i know whats wrong with them, and i have seen them healed, i cannot say its a lie when i have seen it with my own eyes, talked to the people, checked them over myself. and i know the holy laughter and the HG meetings. and i know you will scorn me for this, but i have stood in them and i knew His presence was with me, i Knew His peace, His love, His joy. its beyond anything words can describe, and its not some feeling. i don't believe i can command God to do anything, but i know God wants everything for me, and i know He can do anything. i wont limit Him, i will speak the word over my life.

wanderer6059 · Dec 11, 2016

samuel23 said:

The error in WOF is not really in the area of faith ,we need faith in order to please God. A big error in word of faith is that they have mixed the Old Covenant in with the New Covenant in an attempt to give their selves God like power in this life. Supernatural health and wealth was given under the Old Covenant but not under the New Covenant. Example, when the people of Israel left Egypt they had supernatural wealth given to them by the Egyptians and supernatural health, not a single person was sick(that is supernatural). The church on the other hand had natural poverty and sickness(as would befall any group of people) from the beginning and always has had. The church is better because we are given the Holy Spirit and the promise of the world to come. In the church we can ask for healing or even money if we need it, however the answer depends on the plan of God. Israel was all about getting things in this life while the church is about the life to come. WOF is mostly about using God to get what you want in this life. Where WOF really proved itself to be false is when the leaders choose to live a rich persons lifestyle. A true servant of God would have choose the lifestyle of the common man.

Pat Robertson and Billy Graham are pretty rich...

stonesoffire · Dec 11, 2016

samuel23 said:

I agree that it is in excess for some reason. But, this is the healing of ones emotions.

~Pro_17:22　 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.

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