Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!
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The joy of the Lord isn't hysteria. That sounds like the wrong kind of spirit. Once you taste of the joy, you desire to have more.
Kind of like an addiction. lol Now I probably will get flack for this but its true.
~Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
what i asked for proof...
because what i am asking (a citation where Hagin took words written by Kenyon and said they were his or didn't quote him.) for something that is not in the bible. but history. so yeah proof matters in this regard... because the context is NOT bible BUT HISTORY....
and you are in school, eh?
google it dude...it is absolutely everywhere
or, go to a bookstore or better yet amazon or something and google Kenyon and buy his books
then wonder what else you don't know
kids these days.........
trust me i know of Kenyon, i have a few of his books, some given for classes at Rhema. but you are claiming that Hagin committed a crime. so where is your evidence of this. a place where Hagin wrote the words of Kenyon and did not give citation or credit?
Usually these things are written for instruction and the hope that others catch the vision. Are they not? The teachings come from scripture so how can anyone take credit anyway? Holy Spirit inspires....pnema...breath.
its funny because if you look back in my thread i said i knew of his writings....
and Hagin himself, said that he was teaching his message on faith and healing long before he ever heard of E. W. Kenyon.
Mr. Kenyon went home to be with the Lord in 1948. It was 1950 before I was introduced to his books. A brother in the Lord asked me, “Did you ever read after Dr. Kenyon?” I said, “I’ve never heard of him.” He said, “You preach healing and faith just like he does.” He gave me some of Kenyon’s books. And he did preach faith and healing just like I do. After all, if someone preaches the new birth, and somebody else preaches the new birth, it has to be the same. Likewise, if you preach faith and healing – and I mean Bible faith and Bible healing – it has to be the same. We may have different words to express it, but if it is according to the word of God, it is the same truth.12
Hagin claims that it was not until 1950 that he came into contact with Kenyon, some 17 years after he had gotten “the revelation” that launched his ministry. Any similarities between himself and Kenyon are to be attributed, says Hagin, to the fact that both are merely “using different words to express” what the Bible has to say on “the same truth.”12
Amen, if it were true then the Holy Ghost would be the most plagiarized author in all existence.
Hi wanderer! I have not forgotten about you, just been a little busy this past weekend. However, check out the following site for now. Will provide some other stuff later. Cross+Word Articles exposing the Word-of-Faith or Prosperity Movement - Plagiarism, Kenyon and the Word-of-Faith Movement
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Hi wanderer! I have not forgotten about you, just been a little busy this past weekend. However, check out the following site for now. Will provide some other stuff later. Cross+Word Articles exposing the Word-of-Faith or Prosperity Movement - Plagiarism, Kenyon and the Word-of-Faith Movement
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
PLAGIARISM OF E. W. KENYON BY KENNETH E. HAGIN?
In his book A Different Gospel, author D.R. McConnell goes to some length to show that Kenneth Hagin plagiarized the writings of E. W. Kenyon. Some have contacted the office of Kenyons Gospel Publishing Society quite irritated about this situation. So what is our response?
First of all, it must be noted that Kenneth Hagin, to the best of my knowledge does not actually write his books. What I mean by this is that his books are for the most part transcriptions of his speaking ministry. Someone transcribes the taped messages and then they are edited and put into book form. Those who are preachers understand that it is impossible to stop and credit everyone who influenced your message while you are preaching. As someone who has been preaching and teaching for around 20 years, I shudder to think what would happen if I were called upon to remember each author or speaker who had influenced any given message I teach.
Anyone listening to me preach who was familiar with E.W. Kenyon would recognize many of his ideas in my preaching. The thoughtful listener would also recognize many other influences in my speaking ministry. This would be confirmed by my personal library of books and tapes.
One respected Charismatic leader, who has since gone on to be with the Lord, said of E.W. Kenyon that he was often quoted, yet seldom footnoted. Many people have absorbed his phrases and echoed his ideas. I have heard Kenneth Hagin personally testify to the fact that many of the phrases he has used and ideas he has taught, he heard from some other preachers before he ever heard of E.W. Kenyon. It is quite possible that they were quoting Kenyon and using his material and Kenneth Hagin didnt know the original source. Liking the sound of the phrases, Hagin added them to his preaching vocabulary.
Hagin has noted that he has an almost photographic memory. Reading or hearing something once was all that was necessary for him to recall it verbatim. Every preacher wishes he had this ability! Most of us remember what we can but seldom remember where we heard it. But most preachers have no need to become paranoid about someone chastising us for quoting another author or preacher in our messages and being accused of plagiarism either! Brother Hagin has not been so fortunate.
A second thought that bears on this subject: All of those ministers who worked with Kenyon used his terminology and catchy phrases. Its would be hard to imagine him being offended by this. People enjoy Kenyons writings because he had a unique way of stating things that grabs our attention. People seldom imitate boring speakers! Kenyon would probably be delighted to find that so many are using his phraseology today. In his day he sent forth many ministers that he trained in his churches and Bible schools who preached essentially his message. A father in the faith is blessed when his children imitate him, not angered.
A third point: Kenneth Hagin published a book titled The Name of Jesus. The book was taken from tapes of a seminar where he taught through Kenyons book The Wonderful Name of Jesus. He credits Kenyon both on the tapes and in the introduction to the book. He worked, through his editor, with Kenyons Gospel Publishing Society and had the complete approval of Ruth Kenyon Housworth (Kenyons late daughter) for the book when it went to print. Hagins ministry has always maintained a good relationship with Kenyons Gospel Publishing Society. One of Kenyons books is used in the curriculum at Hagins Rhema Bible Training Center.
We consider Kenneth E. Hagin to be a great man of God. If E.W. Kenyon were here today, he and Hagin would probably be good friends. And from his vantage point in heaven, Kenyon is probably delighted that Kenneth E. Hagin has been so successful in getting the message of faith, so dear to Kenyons heart, out to so many in the world in this generation.
If Kenyon himself wouldnt be bothered about it all, why should anyone else?
http://www.kenyons.org/plagiarism-of-ew-kenyons.html
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LaurenTM
Guest
you seem to be rather deceptive
if you already know of Kenyon, why are you claiming it's all about Hagin?
you ask for 'proof' then turn and say you know about Kenyon
you don't find that duplistic? well,stay in your hermetically sealed WOF box then
I have not said anything about Hagin thousands have not stated before me
the entire concept is Kenyon's...you can refute that all day long...won't change a thing
anyway, neither of them are getting their doctrine from scripture, so neither are you
interesting how you try to make it seem I am bothered by the plagiarism when it is actually yourself that is bothered by it
my point was that Hagin did not even actually start the doctrine
that was my actual point, which apparently you know and pretend you did not know
anyway, no one can talk to you...you just keep twisting things ...I guess on an intellectual level, that is about your only defence
again, my point is that WOF is really credited to Kenyon...not Hagin...Hagin just liked the concept of his words being so powerful He could order God around
in the meantime, I guess you have to concur with your current teachers...or what...maybe be expelled for not buying the entire hook line and stinker...er sinker...either one I guess...of the lie of WOF
it's impossible to talk to someone involved in this subjective line of reasoning that you present...it has so many faces, you will just show another one.....
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the entire concept is Gods, that's why Kenyon never took legal action against Hagin. you posted something without testing it. and Hagin is seen as the father of the faith movement because he reached more people, and helped trained up more minsters, he is considered by most in the movement to be a spiritual mentor. so its more based on the measure of his reach, than the context of teaching almost all WoF attribute to the Holy Ghost. and its not deceptive, i just knew a truth you had know idea of. i knew you were ignorant to facts, so i tested it. and trust me my box is a lot bigger than WoF lol i'm a lot smarter than you think i am sister
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LaurenTM
Guest
the entire concept is Gods, that's why Kenyon never took legal action against Hagin. you posted something without testing it. and Hagin is seen as the father of the faith movement because he reached more people, and helped trained up more minsters, he is considered by most in the movement to be a spiritual mentor. so its more based on the measure of his reach, than the context of teaching almost all WoF attribute to the Holy Ghost. and its not deceptive, i just knew a truth you had know idea of. i knew you were ignorant to facts, so i tested it. and trust me my box is a lot bigger than WoF lol i'm a lot smarter than you think i am sister
you have left off making sense...actually about 20 or so pages back
you make false accusations and if that is not getting anywhere, then you say it is God
well, it is not God
Kenyon's message is not from God, ergo neither is Hagin;s
ergo neither is yours
as I said, you just repeat the company line...including saying it's Jesus teaching
only Jesus actually taught something very different
you might begin with the Sermon on the Mount for a taste of what Jesus of the Bible actually taught...your friends have mislead you
really?
that's disturbing, believing you have to trot out what you think are your smarts
grow up
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you seem to be rather deceptive
if you already know of Kenyon, why are you claiming it's all about Hagin?
you ask for 'proof' then turn and say you know about Kenyon
you don't find that duplistic? well,stay in your hermetically sealed WOF box then
I have not said anything about Hagin thousands have not stated before me
the entire concept is Kenyon's...you can refute that all day long...won't change a thing
anyway, neither of them are getting their doctrine from scripture, so neither are you
interesting how you try to make it seem I am bothered by the plagiarism when it is actually yourself that is bothered by it
my point was that Hagin did not even actually start the doctrine
that was my actual point, which apparently you know and pretend you did not know
anyway, no one can talk to you...you just keep twisting things ...I guess on an intellectual level, that is about your only defence
again, my point is that WOF is really credited to Kenyon...not Hagin...Hagin just liked the concept of his words being so powerful He could order God around
in the meantime, I guess you have to concur with your current teachers...or what...maybe be expelled for not buying the entire hook line and stinker...er sinker...either one I guess...of the lie of WOF
it's impossible to talk to someone involved in this subjective line of reasoning that you present...it has so many faces, you will just show another one.....
that part was from the web link below if you can read. and like i said, faith message is inspired by God not man. so your point is still wrong. but if understanding cant be gained and if comprehension is impossible its best to not speak
i guess you can think you understand the words of God your way sister. hope it works well for you.
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LaurenTM
Guest
Sermon on the Mount
humble yourself...but the names you have called others...including calling the op a hypocrite over and over, indicates you think more highly of yourself then you ought to
remember now, you think YOU are the teacher
you brag and yak at us...but have proven nothing...including how smart you think you are
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Now compare the verse you quoted with laughing to the point of falling down drunk on it and barking like dogs. Really? Is that righteousness, peace, and joy? Nah!
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LaurenTM
Guest
faith is definately from God
but WOF tries to make faith a work of mankind
and that is another thing you WOFers do...you try to say we are against faith...your friend in the other thread made the same accusation
without faith it is impossible to please God...but those who come to Him, must have faith that HE is...not faith in WOF or words or silly little men like Kenyon and Hagin who twist what faith is and make it all about themselves and people with itching ears eat it up and spread it
and then brag about how smart they are...as you just did
shall I call you a fool then? because that is what scripture will state a person is when they brag...remember, I am not calling you a fool
I am pointing out to you the fallacy of your words according to scripture
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Angela gave Bible in the beginning of this. She's been talking bible most of the way. Since you can't counter, you go for history of some men? Yup. About the only thing you can do when avoiding God.
i have posted and given my rebuttal, i wait for a response to my postings proving there fault. i have not once said i was higher than any of my brotheres or sisters in Christ. but i do deserve the same response i originally gave them, not some brush off. and it really doesn't indicate that... i don't know how you could logically think that, so you must be confused. and i'm not a teacher yet. oh and 7:1-6