What does the Hebrew dictionary say it means? Here's the English definition that I'm going by to understand that verse.
head·stone
ˈhedˌstōn/
noun
- a slab of stone set up at the head of a grave, typically inscribed with the name of the dead person.
The Stone which the builders rejected
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What does the Hebrew dictionary say it means? Here's the English definition that I'm going by to understand that verse.
head·stone
ˈhedˌstōn/
noun
Well, in Hebrew it just means "stone." (Going by memory here, but I will go look it up again.) It helps me to have the huge, heavy monstrosity actually in my hands sometimes, rather than trying to look it up in an online concordance, and here is why: I first look in the front, for the word "stone." It shows me right there at a glance, every single scripture in which the word stone is also used. And if the number is not the same for all of them, - you know what, let me go get the monster to look at it while I explain what I mean, be right back
B
BeyondET
Guest
There are two different definitions too headstone depending on the purpose it's beings used. If a person as talking about a stone place at one end of a grave then yes, if using the word in architecture then headstone also called a keystone viseversa..
key·stone
1. Architecture A wedge-shaped stone at the top of an arch, often larger or more ornamented than the other voussoirs. Also called headstone the central supporting element of a whole.
Okay, I'm back with the monster. So there are a few different numbers given for stone. This means they are different original words. I'll start with the number given for the Zech verse we're looking at. #68. So now I flip to the Hebrew section to #68.
It first gives the spelling in actual Hebrew letters, then the spelling of the word converted to English letters, then the pronunciation of the word. Then it says, from the root of 1129. (This is often helpful to a rounder understanding. It would be like saying...in English, such and such a word originates from this word, and if you weren't English speaking, it would helpful to you to get a rounder understanding by kno ing the definition of the root word in addition to the definition of the actual word derived from it.)
So then I have to mark my place and flip forward to #1129. It says, a primitive root. This means you have gone backwards as far as you can in the family tree, so to speak, of the word. This is the only root it derives from. It says, to build, (literally and figuratively), (begin to) build, obtain children, make, repair, set up surely.
That's the root that the word I want to understand comes from. It is NOT the definition of the word but it can help my rounder understanding OF the word, which I look up next. Flip back to #68. It says: from the root of 1129 through the meaning of "to build." - A stone. (plus possibly - carbuncle or mason or plummet) So the word could be translated, depending on the surrounding context of the other verses or even just the rest of the verse, as any of the following: mason stone, carbuncle stone, or plummet stone. Then it goes on to give even more things it could be translated as. - chalk stone, hail stone, sling stone. Then even further it says: stony or diverse weight or weights.
Now we can use the root wisely here by determining what we may be able to actually eliminate as not the best meaning considering the context in the verse in Zech. So if the root suggests building and the context of the verse seems to suggest building, we could probably do away with the one possible definition of "hail stone", right? Because in this case, the root does help us (even though it doesn't always, because in another context, it may be translated as actual hailstones, in which case it's too far removed from the root of "to build" and actually means something more related to weather. (Although....you could possibly build an igloo out of hail stones haha!)
Need to take care of dogs. If you want me to continue when I come back I am glad to. Or if this is not helping you, we can drop it too.
It first gives the spelling in actual Hebrew letters, then the spelling of the word converted to English letters, then the pronunciation of the word. Then it says, from the root of 1129. (This is often helpful to a rounder understanding. It would be like saying...in English, such and such a word originates from this word, and if you weren't English speaking, it would helpful to you to get a rounder understanding by kno ing the definition of the root word in addition to the definition of the actual word derived from it.)
So then I have to mark my place and flip forward to #1129. It says, a primitive root. This means you have gone backwards as far as you can in the family tree, so to speak, of the word. This is the only root it derives from. It says, to build, (literally and figuratively), (begin to) build, obtain children, make, repair, set up surely.
That's the root that the word I want to understand comes from. It is NOT the definition of the word but it can help my rounder understanding OF the word, which I look up next. Flip back to #68. It says: from the root of 1129 through the meaning of "to build." - A stone. (plus possibly - carbuncle or mason or plummet) So the word could be translated, depending on the surrounding context of the other verses or even just the rest of the verse, as any of the following: mason stone, carbuncle stone, or plummet stone. Then it goes on to give even more things it could be translated as. - chalk stone, hail stone, sling stone. Then even further it says: stony or diverse weight or weights.
Now we can use the root wisely here by determining what we may be able to actually eliminate as not the best meaning considering the context in the verse in Zech. So if the root suggests building and the context of the verse seems to suggest building, we could probably do away with the one possible definition of "hail stone", right? Because in this case, the root does help us (even though it doesn't always, because in another context, it may be translated as actual hailstones, in which case it's too far removed from the root of "to build" and actually means something more related to weather. (Although....you could possibly build an igloo out of hail stones haha!)
Need to take care of dogs. If you want me to continue when I come back I am glad to. Or if this is not helping you, we can drop it too.
Was keystone in the definition of headstone? The reason I ask is because I haven't seen it that way in any of the dictionaries I've googled.
Good grief, in looking back over my ppost, which I can't edit now, I left out one word, but although this will be funny, I promise I didn't do it on purpose! It was the word "head as a possible addition also, as in head stone.
B
BeyondET
Guest
Yes here's the link to the definition.. I've been looking at words like this one for example and IMO bible translators are not keeping up with the times about where and how to use words that are in the right place with the right context the subject is on..for example in Psalm 118 that passage today would be properly translated as key stone for it was talking about the builders...
Headstone - definition of headstone by The Free Dictionary
Okay, I'll continue since I received neither a yea nor a nay from you.
So we've eliminated hail stone because the context of the verse is clearly involved with the root of to build something. A foundation is spoken of and then another stone is spoken of. We want to try to examine the possible meanings given in the Hebrew to see if some might better convey meaning and context better than others. Can any others be pretty definitely stricken from the list, at least tentatively?
So we've eliminated hail stone because the context of the verse is clearly involved with the root of to build something. A foundation is spoken of and then another stone is spoken of. We want to try to examine the possible meanings given in the Hebrew to see if some might better convey meaning and context better than others. Can any others be pretty definitely stricken from the list, at least tentatively?
So we actually have 2 lists now: stricken from consideration and still possible.
Stricken:
_______
1. hail stone
Still possibilities:
______________
1. mason stone
2. carbuncle stone
3. plummet stone
4. chalk stone
5. sling stone
6. head stone
So we should strike whatever doesn't seem to do with some kind of building with some kind of stone or that just has nothing to do with building in general. (As we did with the hail stone).
Stricken:
_______
1. hail stone
Still possibilities:
______________
1. mason stone
2. carbuncle stone
3. plummet stone
4. chalk stone
5. sling stone
6. head stone
So we should strike whatever doesn't seem to do with some kind of building with some kind of stone or that just has nothing to do with building in general. (As we did with the hail stone).
At THIS point, we are now safe to actually use an ENGLISH dictionary if we need to, and I have to say, I really need to, because I have no idea what a carbuncle or a plummet are!
B
BeyondET
Guest
You left out Key stone.. lol..jk
I think the point being is if scripture is talking about architecture relationship to whatever is being taught then a person can use head stone as a reference but the readers should know exactly why the word is being used in that way.. As I stated head stone key stone are basically the same in how the word is use in architect... When the scriptures were written rather in Hebrew or Greek etc.. The word Keystone probably wasn't being used as a reference to the main support stone.
So there were many possible definitions of carbuncle in English. One was a painful inflammation of subcutaneous tissue, which I discarded because it doesn't have to do with stones or with building, it only has to do with:eew, gross.
I looked down through the definitions and there was one that at least remotely was involved with stones. A carbuncle can be a garnet stone cut in a certain rounded way but not faceted but more of a round carving than like the planes or facets of a cut diamond. So basically, a round stone.
And in looking up plummet, I find that it's a plumb bob or plummet line, which ties in to the definition we are considering of a chalk line...but, in my opinion, this is slightly confusing with the context. It does have to do with building because you have to make sure things line up perpendicularly or whatever you're constructing will maybe begin leaning and crash down on someones head.
I looked down through the definitions and there was one that at least remotely was involved with stones. A carbuncle can be a garnet stone cut in a certain rounded way but not faceted but more of a round carving than like the planes or facets of a cut diamond. So basically, a round stone.
And in looking up plummet, I find that it's a plumb bob or plummet line, which ties in to the definition we are considering of a chalk line...but, in my opinion, this is slightly confusing with the context. It does have to do with building because you have to make sure things line up perpendicularly or whatever you're constructing will maybe begin leaning and crash down on someones head.
B
BeyondET
Guest
A plummet is a tool or word that is used in construction to plumb up a wall to make it exactly straight up and down in a vertical straight line..
Or a pointed stone on a string is called a plumb bob...
I looked up head stone also in English, and you are correct that it is a marker at the head of a grave. But, this doesn't seem to fit with either the Hebrew root OR the Hebrew word from the root we are trying to glean. The marker of a grave is a stone, it's true, but maybe we can find a definition that ALSO ties in with building, since the context of the passage really does seem to be the building of something.
B
BeyondET
Guest
Gem stone
Exodus 28:17 and 39:10 both refer to the carbuncle's use as the third stone in the breastplate of the Hoshen.
Exodus 28:17 and 39:10 both refer to the carbuncle's use as the third stone in the breastplate of the Hoshen.
Thanks for the further info!
You know what went through my mind? That all this talk of building...and the verses relation to Christ and Him being called the stone not cut with human hands, etc. and...the fact that HE WAS A BUILDER!!
I mean, literally and humanly He was a builder/carpenter and spiritually He is building His church. Just sayin' - neato. I also think it's interesting that the Light that lights every man coming into the world is the Son and the light that lights up the world is the Sun. Son/Sun, both great lights, pronounced the same, sound the same but spelled differently.
B
BeyondET
Guest
That's exactly how the passge is using the word in architecture.. The bees swarming around his head in the chapter is comfirmation about master builders.. I mean really did David need to call on God to save him from some bees flying around his head. That's laughable it was purely symbolic in that the bees are builders do complex structures...
Oh! So, IF we were to decide that the most logical choice was carbuncle stone, we have that to give another example of that translation!
B
BeyondET
Guest
Thanks for the further info!
You know what went through my mind? That all this talk of building...and the verses relation to Christ and Him being called the stone not cut with human hands, etc. and...the fact that HE WAS A BUILDER!!
I also think it's interesting that the Light that lights every man coming into the world is the Son and the light that lights up the world is the Sun. Son/Sun, both great lights, pronounced the same, sound the same but spelled differently.
Yes indeed and here's another interesting thing, a rock and a stone and a pebble are all have different meanings pronounced differently yet all three items are the same material...
Sling stone is also not to do with building or with the context of the verse.
So now we have this:
Stricken from consideration (unless we have to go back and try again):
__________________________________
1. hail stone (x context)
2. sling stone (x context)
3. carbuncle stone (so far maybe not most perfect definition re: context)
4. chalk stone (maybe not best because it's a stone for making a mark to keep building true and we're looking for an ACTUAL stone)
5. head stone (does not have to do with building. Is a stone but doesn't seem to fit context best so we're going to look for a better word from the list but we may come back to this if none of the others seem to fit real well either).
6. plummet stone - a stone to HELP with construction, but as with the chalk line, not a stone used for the actual construction. It's more of a tool).
still possible:
__________
1. mason stone. Uh oh, we're down to one now and I still don't know what a mason stone IS. If I look it up and it doesn't seem to fit both in the context of building and in the definition of a stone used in building, I'm afraid we have to start over and maybe then go into looking at other verses in the bible where #68 is used to try to help...but I'll look it up and see. Be right back.
So now we have this:
Stricken from consideration (unless we have to go back and try again):
__________________________________
1. hail stone (x context)
2. sling stone (x context)
3. carbuncle stone (so far maybe not most perfect definition re: context)
4. chalk stone (maybe not best because it's a stone for making a mark to keep building true and we're looking for an ACTUAL stone)
5. head stone (does not have to do with building. Is a stone but doesn't seem to fit context best so we're going to look for a better word from the list but we may come back to this if none of the others seem to fit real well either).
6. plummet stone - a stone to HELP with construction, but as with the chalk line, not a stone used for the actual construction. It's more of a tool).
still possible:
__________
1. mason stone. Uh oh, we're down to one now and I still don't know what a mason stone IS. If I look it up and it doesn't seem to fit both in the context of building and in the definition of a stone used in building, I'm afraid we have to start over and maybe then go into looking at other verses in the bible where #68 is used to try to help...but I'll look it up and see. Be right back.