Tongues???

[Billyd]

The apostle Paul said he sang in the Spirit and prayed in the Spirit. So thats both worship and fellowship. Those terms given the context of the verses they reside is in reference to tongues. You're asking the difference and I am telling you that you aren't controlling what you're saying but God is. He is giving the utterance. I am sure you are not so arrogant as to say you can pray just as perfectly for your life and well-being as God, Himself?

I sing and pray in the spirit most of the time. Funny thing though. Those around me know what I'm doing, and are blessed, and God hears my songs and prayers, and blesses me. It's all in my native tongue. How can God use me when those around me don't understand a word that I am saying?

What tongue was Paul singing and praying in?

 

[VCO]

the power of thew Most High is greater than us, i never said different. i was speaking of the angel language not the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 13:1 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.


That does not mean that angels have their own language, but rather, whenever angels spoke in the Scriptures, they spoke in the language of the hearer. The distinction between the voices of men, and the voices of angels, is that the angels had an eloquence and the loud sound of one speaking from authority, above that of what men speaking were capable of having.


Revelation 19:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel standing on the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice, saying to all the birds flying high overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,

Revelation 8:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!


They heard them speak in their own language, but the voice was noticeably different than that of a man.


Acts 8:26 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] An angel of the Lord spoke to Philip: “Get up and go south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is the desert road.)

Revelation 21:3 (YLT)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, `Lo, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them--their God,

Revelation 4:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!"


Clearly speaking a known earthly language, NO EVIDENCE FOR A HEAVENLY LANGUAGE AT ALL.


Revelation 5:2 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I also saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?”

Revelation 5:11-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels around the throne, and also of the living creatures and of the elders. Their number was countless thousands, plus thousands of thousands.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They said with a loud voice: The Lamb who was slaughtered is worthy to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing!
[SUP]13 [/SUP] I heard every creature in heaven, on earth, under the earth, on the sea, and everything in them say: Blessing and honor and glory and dominion to the One seated on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

And again, NO EVIDENCE OF A SEPARATE HEAVENLY LANGUAGE.


Revelation 6:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw the Lamb open one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!”


And again, the distinction is in the tone of the VOICE, NOT IN THE LANGUAGE.


Revelation 7:2-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Then I saw another angel, who had the seal of the living God rise up from the east. He cried out in a loud voice to the four angels who were empowered to harm the earth and the sea:
[SUP]3 [/SUP] “Don’t harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we seal the slaves of our God on their foreheads.”


Again, the angel is giving authoritative commands in a loud voice, NOT IN A SUPPOSED HEAVENLY LANGUAGE.


Revelation 8:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] I looked again and heard an eagle flying high overhead, crying out in a loud voice, “Woe! Woe! Woe to those who live on the earth, because of the remaining trumpet blasts that the three angels are about to sound!”


AND AGAIN, only the TONE of the Angel's voice was different.


Revelation 12:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: The salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Messiah have now come, because the accuser of our brothers has been thrown out: the one who accuses them before our God day and night.


AND AGAIN, only the TONE of the Angel's voice was different.


Revelation 14:7-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] He spoke with a loud voice: “Fear God and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come. Worship the Maker of heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
[SUP]8 [/SUP] A second angel followed, saying: “It has fallen, Babylon the Great has fallen, who made all nations drink the wine of her sexual immorality, which brings wrath.”
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And a third angel followed them and spoke with a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,


AND AGAIN, only the TONE of the Angel's voice was different.


Revelation 14:15 (HCSB) [SUP]15 [/SUP] Another angel came out of the sanctuary, crying out in a loud voice to the One who was seated on the cloud, “Use your sickle and reap, for the time to reap has come, since the harvest of the earth is ripe.”


AND AGAIN, only the TONE of the Angel's voice was different.


Revelation 14:18 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Yet another angel, who had authority over fire, came from the altar, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Use your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from earth’s vineyard, because its grapes have ripened.”

AND AGAIN, only the TONE of the Angel's voice was different.


Etc., etc., etc.


There is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL THAT the Tongues of Angels is a separate heavenly language that God understands. That is PURELY a made up definition by the Charismatics, trying to justify IN VAIN, that their ecstatic utterances are of GOD.

 

[shittim]

Stands to reason the enemy will attack it by sending false practitioners of it, as he does with the
other manifestations and working of the Holy Spirit. We must all prayerfully seek to grow in discernment
and our Father freely gives. It isn't His will we be deceived.
Most Christians don't know Him, they know ABOUT Him.

 

[stonesoffire]

The problem with tongues is that it is both misunderstood and misused. Holiness Pentecostals teach that you can't be saved unless you speak in tongues with is false doctrine. Others feel spiritually superior because they speak in tongues,which is a misuse of the gift. Some churches dont follow the NT and order,also a misuse of tongues. But none of this means that tongues is not real.

Ive told this story before. Back when I was in ministry we had a Baptist friend who played guitar travel with us for a few years. We traveled in all churches,all denominations. Our friend was totally against speaking in tongues,didn't believe in it at all. One Sunday morning we were at a church and a lady spoke in tongues and then there was an interpretation.After the service we were worried about our Baptist friend and began to explain tongues to him.He stopped us and said that he had received the interpretation before it had been given. He never questioned tongues again and said from then on that he believed in tongues.I dont know if ever spoke himself but I know it changed his mind. Tongues is real,there is no doubt about it.

I like this story Kayla. What I heard in a teaching is there are several gifts that are using our voice, I would think your baptist friend could of had the gift of wisdom, knowledge along with interpretation. He said we will speak something. At Pentecost they were not just speaking in tongues, but prophesying too. Declaring the wondrous works of God is what scripture says.

Any gift using our voice has this one common element....we know it's from Holy Spirit, not of self.

 

[stonesoffire]

Stands to reason the enemy will attack it by sending false practitioners of it, as he does with the
other manifestations and working of the Holy Spirit. We must all prayerfully seek to grow in discernment
and our Father freely gives. It isn't His will we be deceived.
Most Christians don't know Him, they know ABOUT Him.

Shittim I'm not sure this is correct. How can one be born from above, which is what makes one Christian, and not know Him?

I just read on Facebook of a supposed evangelist who is conning many declaring he can walk on air. He's getting rich by the followers. There's a video of him coming down stairs in his mansion, and on the last step, he is hanging over the floor. But, you can see the shadow of men holding him up. The video panned down on his feet only when he reached the last step.

I have many friends on my Facebook from other countries and it's easy to see how people can be fooled.

It will always be about money with a hireling.

Too much fearmongering on these forums with us Americans. We are more prone to religious suspicions about one another.

This con man is from Africa.

 

[BenFTW]

I sing and pray in the spirit most of the time. Funny thing though. Those around me know what I'm doing, and are blessed, and God hears my songs and prayers, and blesses me. It's all in my native tongue. How can God use me when those around me don't understand a word that I am saying?

What tongue was Paul singing and praying in?

Only God knows. I would have to know the language I am speaking in order to tell you what it is. Often that is not the case. At times I've guessed what it could be, for example sometimes its in Spanish yet I am not fluent in Spanish. I just catch a word and know that its that particular language.

The apostle Paul said, "Yet in the church" which means he spoke in tongues outside of the church.

 

[BenFTW]

this is just extraordinarily gullible, at best.

Less insults, more substance.

 

[VCO]

Stands to reason the enemy will attack it by sending false practitioners of it, as he does with the
other manifestations and working of the Holy Spirit. We must all prayerfully seek to grow in discernment
and our Father freely gives. It isn't His will we be deceived.
Most Christians don't know Him, they know ABOUT Him.

FINALLY, somebody recognizes the problem that I, and people like Dave Hunt, and numerous others, have been trying to point out and warn about for several decades. You are the first that I have seen to acknowledge openly that discernment takes WAY MORE than seeing, hearing, and feelings; the lack of which, has been the catalyst that ushered in this massive amount deception from phony Clergy and Evangelists. Thank you brother.

Like I have heard Dave Hunt say several times when speaking in Charismatic or Pentecostal Churches, "I fear the majority of you all are setting yourself up to believe THEE LIE."

2 Thessalonians 2:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The coming ⌊of the lawless one⌋ {Antichrist} is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders,

 

[BenFTW]

God heals today.

God does not take your money for that.
God will not fell you down in a hypnotic state.
God will not be in cheap tricks like the leg prolonging.
God will not play games like "there is somebody called... J..Jerry...James!"
God will not play games like "there are few who can donate 200$ and one who can donate 2000$ tonight!"
God will not play games like "cast away your pills, because its unbelief to take them. And when you cast them away, you will die, because your faith was too small, still".

Etc.

God is not the same thing as the healing shows or the charismatic movement.

Leg growing is not a cheap trick. It isn't just a matter of giving someone some extra height and proper balance. In extending the leg it balances the muscles, tendons, ligaments, and bones in such a way that it eliminates back pain (as such misalignment was the source of the back pain in the first place). Its not a parlor trick, its God extending His love through a healing.

 

[shittim]

I know there is a witness in my spirit when the Spirit is moving, when I practice praying in the G-d given prayer language.
When prompted by the Spirit to pray for a group and the Holy Spirit comes to rest on the group you can see everyone in the room "settle down" as He rests upon them. Just like the baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist, "in bodily form, as a dove", you can feel Him coming to rest one you gently, as a dove would rest.
I think we can have the residential gift we receive when we receive Christ and stop there when we are in fact to start at that point to find the destiny, or complete, full plan He has for our lives and grow in the gifts. His sheep know His voice, He didn't say His sheep read about Him in a scroll or book.
Blessings

 

[VCO]

Shittim I'm not sure this is correct. How can one be born from above, which is what makes one Christian, and not know Him?

I just read on Facebook of a supposed evangelist who is conning many declaring he can walk on air. He's getting rich by the followers. There's a video of him coming down stairs in his mansion, and on the last step, he is hanging over the floor. But, you can see the shadow of men holding him up. The video panned down on his feet only when he reached the last step.

I have many friends on my Facebook from other countries and it's easy to see how people can be fooled.

It will always be about money with a hireling.

Too much fearmongering on these forums with us Americans. We are more prone to religious suspicions about one another.

This con man is from Africa.

Matthew 7:21-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


Speaking in Charismatic Ecstatic Utternances is NOT the proof of being Born Again, however CONTINUAL WILLING OBEDIENCE AS AN ACT OF LOVE FOR HIM IS PROOF. Picking and Choosing which commands you want to obey, is failing the TEST of OBEDIENCE. How about you start by obeying this COMMAND from your favorite chapter in the Bible:


1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (NKJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.

 

[shittim]

very well put VCO, I am so thankful to be here on this forum.
Has anyone watched John Wimber's personal testimony showing how
G-d encountered him and started him on his road to dedication and devotion?

 

[VCO]

Worship draws Him near, sometimes people receive healing based on their faith, not on the performance of a leader.
He is very clear He is the same, yesterday, today, forever. Before the Exodus from Egypt scripture tells us there
were no lame for He healed them all.
The book of Acts is normal Christianity, we lost it for awhile, but He wants us to walk in it and know Him, not just know about Him. In Revelation some will hear "get out from my presence, I never knew you". Knowing Him is essential, not just knowing about Him.

Do you know that at the TIME of the Apostles the term LAME included AMPUTEES?

THINK ABOUT IT.

 

[jaybird88]

It is speaking of God's language, prophecy. When the Holy Spirit put his words in the mouth of Peter it was attributed unto God not Peter.

no it is not, it says language, not angel language. your writing in something thats not there to make your theology work. when people start editing the bible to fit their ideas its a good indication the theology is wrong.
when the Most High spoke through prophets, to the 12 at Jesus baptism and 100s of other times, He spoke in our own language.

 

[jaybird88]

I think a lot of people try to make speaking in tongues more central to the Christian faith than it should be, and come up with theories about what is so great about it, stretching prooftexts to make a point. There is a verse in Romans 8 that doesn't seem to fit tongues at all, since tongues can be utterred.

But as far as tongues edifying is concerned, Paul lets us know that they do edify the speaker. In context, based on parallelism, this is a good kind of edifying. Paul would that they speak with tongues, but rather that they prophecy. He who speaks in tongues edifies himself. He who prophecies edifies the church. Paul wanted them to speak in tongues (edify themselves), but would rather have them prophesy (edify the church.) Paul contrasts something good with something better.

This shows us that tongues edify the speaker and that this is a good thing.

Later Paul says if he prays in a tongue, his spirit prays and his understanding is unfruitful. He says he will pray with the spirit and with the understanding.

Why would Paul pray in a tongue? Apparently, he saw some benefit to it in addition to praying with his understanding.

That is a reasonable argument, right? Can you see that all in the passage?

praying edifies and IMO thats what paul is speaking of. or praying in the spirit.
i dont see how its edifying to do something that Jesus teaches not to do that sounds like one of the greek priest under a spell.

 

[stonesoffire]

Matthew 7:21-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


Speaking in Charismatic Ecstatic Utternances is NOT the proof of being Born Again, however CONTINUAL WILLING OBEDIENCE AS AN ACT OF LOVE FOR HIM IS PROOF. Picking and Choosing which commands you want to obey, is failing the TEST of OBEDIENCE. How about you start by obeying this COMMAND from your favorite chapter in the Bible:


1 Corinthians 14:33-34 (NKJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.

well, bless your little socks off..

 

[kaylagrl]

I like this story Kayla. What I heard in a teaching is there are several gifts that are using our voice, I would think your baptist friend could of had the gift of wisdom, knowledge along with interpretation. He said we will speak something. At Pentecost they were not just speaking in tongues, but prophesying too. Declaring the wondrous works of God is what scripture says.

Any gift using our voice has this one common element....we know it's from Holy Spirit, not of self.

One body all working together! Well said!

 

[shittim]

No, I didn't know that VCO

 

[plainguy]

The apostle Paul said, "Yet in the church" which means he spoke in tongues outside of the church.

I'm sure Paul encountered people of many different language's outside of the church. In his occupation (tent making), the marketplace etc. etc. If his testimonies of Christ to them were in a tongue they didn't understand, they served no purpose.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

that passage could be about a human language. no angel language mentioned there.

so the only way to confirm this is to do an over write in the holy scriptures, replacing tongues with angel tongues when its not there?

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels . . . (1 Cor. 13:1) and have not love, I am become as sounding brass or a tinkling symbol . . . For he that speaks in an tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God . . . no need to rewrite scripture - tongues of men and of angels. Not up to me to figure out the how and why . . . it's up to me to operate what God has given me to grow in my relationship with him.

1 Cor. 12, 13, and 14 all go together and concern spiritual matters. These chapters speak of gifts (1 Cor. 12:4), of service (1 Cor. 12:5), the working (energizing) of (1 Cor. 12:6) and the manifestations of the Spirit (1 Cor. 12:7-10). How everything is to be operated IN love and how everything is to be operated in the church.