Calvinism - Another Heresy

[Depleted]

Foreknowing is not predetermining. Correlation is not causation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I really never did ask what you think it means. I told Spur he doesn't even believe in that either. This just went beyond Calvinism, and yet, you haven't caught that either because you're still back not getting what anyone is saying on any side of the issue.

Your contribution is sort of like having a debate on boxers or briefs, but you're determined everyone accepts Chevy.

 

[Depleted]

And you wonder why people treat you the way you do.

Unversalism means all people will be saved in their own way, All gospels are ways to heaven.

Since when is "jesus died for all" Mean "everyone will be saved?

Please. Your trying so hard to discredit me, all your doing is making yourself look bad.

Maybe that's your problem. You keep thinking this is all about you. I really don't spend enough time thinking about you to consider if I want to discredit you or not. Nor, do I particularly care what you think on how everyone takes me.

I use real life definition for words, not your interpretation on words.

Universalism.

 

[lv2ski]

I've given many Scriptures where God has changed His mind on things even when He has declared an outcome. God does not lie, but God has the right to change His direction.

God changes His mind as a result to our acceptance or rejection of Him.

He changed from reaching out to Israel, to the gentiles based on Israel's rejection of Him. He at one point was ready to start over with Israel, but for moses' plea. He didn't judge Nineveh, based on their repentance. He didn't completely wipe out Israel numerous times in the judges time because of their penitent hearts.

He doesn't just change His mind without cause. There's consequence and opportunity that were responsible for.

He's slow to anger, but He still gets angry. He's merciful, but He still judges. He's gracious, but still withholds blessing.

 

[John146]

So you doubt God's immutability?

Malachi 3:6King James Version (KJV)

6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

The context is concerning the nation of Israel. God has declared things concerning that nation in which He will not repent. But there are things in Scripture where God has changed His mind.

 

[stonesoffire]

Please provide Scripture stating God knows every future decision every man will make...

~Isa 46:9　 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,　
Isa 46:10　 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:　
Isa 46:11　 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

He is outside of time. We are not.

 

[Depleted]

Attack & insult? Really?

You mean non-essentials such as Hyper-grace, a false doctrine invented in 1997 by Joseph Prince? The one taught at https://escapetoreality.org/ ?

You mean the non-essentials you & others were constantly pouring into the BDF & others hated it?

Think before you push that 'report' icon..... I've already found yours & others' threads back in January.

Ah. Thanks. You did clear something up for me. I see a sticky post that no one can reply to at the top of this forum and keep wondering how that phrase came to mean Calvinism. At least now I know I'm not the only one thinking it's not.

 

[John146]

God changes His mind as a result to our acceptance or rejection of Him.

He changed from reaching out to Israel, to the gentiles based on Israel's rejection of Him. He at one point was ready to start over with Israel, but for moses' plea. He didn't judge Nineveh, based on their repentance. He didn't completely wipe out Israel numerous times in the judges time because of their penitent hearts.

He doesn't just change His mind without cause. There's consequence and opportunity that were responsible for.

He's slow to anger, but He still gets angry. He's merciful, but He still judges. He's gracious, but still withholds blessing.

Amen brother! Let me ask you a question concerning Nineveh. God sent Jonah to Nineveh to declare, "yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." Nineveh believed this message and repented of their wickedness and cried out to God. God in turn repented of the destruction He said He would do unto them. Question: Did God know ahead of time that Nineveh would repent and in turn He would not destroy them?

 

[John146]

~Isa 46:9　 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,　
Isa 46:10　 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:　
Isa 46:11　 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

He is outside of time. We are not.

Yes, God has declared the end from the beginning. In the end, God has declared that He will reign victorious. Why would you make this to mean every decision man will ever make? You have to add that to Scripture. I'm not willing to do that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe that's your problem. You keep thinking this is all about you.

Nope that's you..

I really don't spend enough time thinking about you to consider if I want to discredit you or not. Nor, do I particularly care what you think on how everyone takes me.

Well your actions speak differently.

I use real life definition for words, not your interpretation on words.

Universalism.

Here is a copy of the article where you sent me to to prove your point.

Definition of universalism

• 1 often capitalized a : a theological doctrine that all human beings will eventually be savedb : the principles and practices of a liberal Christian denomination founded in the 18th century originally to uphold belief in universal salvation and now united with Unitarianism
  
• 2 : something that is universal in scope
  
• 3 : the state of being universal : universality
  
  so thanks, You just proved my point (of what universalism was) and proved yourself to be in error about my belief. And proved that what I said "jesus died fr all" Is not universalism, because no where in that definition is it stated.
  
  So I ask you again, To please back up your statement against me.. Or can you??
  

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What you are calling faith, I call belief. My individual faith can be proven by my works. But my individual faith cannot justify me. Christ's faith can be proven by His works on the cross. Christ's faith justifies the believer as I stated in several passages.

Yet james said a real living faith can save you.

If you do not trust God. You will never call out to him, or ask him to be saved. You will continue in sin, Go to religion and legalism, or deny god altogether.

 

[lv2ski]

Amen brother! Let me ask you a question concerning Nineveh. God sent Jonah to Nineveh to declare, "yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." Nineveh believed this message and repented of their wickedness and cried out to God. God in turn repented of the destruction He said He would do unto them. Question: Did God know ahead of time that Nineveh would repent and in turn He would not destroy them?

Why yes of coarse. How many times have you told your kids about impending punishment, but upon their penitence you withheld? Why, because it works for motivation and because your will for you kids is their good. The truth is, good willed people hate spanking or grounding their kids. But we know that sometimes its all they respond to. How much more God.

As a side not to that: about 100 years later, God judged Nineveh because they returned to their pagan practices.

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes, God has declared the end from the beginning. In the end, God has declared that He will reign victorious. Why would you make this to mean every decision man will ever make? You have to add that to Scripture. I'm not willing to do that.

Because its the truth. I heard Chuck Missler speak on this. Foreknew.

And He works accordingly in the earth.

 

[stonesoffire]

Question

How could God declare His Son a sacrifice for man before the world was ever created? Again...foreknew.

How does the prophetic work? by foreknowledge. Holy Spirit reveals to men.

 

[lv2ski]

This thread has been interesting.... I've learned that Calvanists don't actually believe in the sovereignty of God. They doubt how much foreknowledge He actually has. They don't seem to believe He knows all our thoughts. And.... not to hijack this thread, but maybe thats why they infant baptize. Do they believe they can actually influence God's predestination? Otherwise, why would you do that? Since baptism is an institution symbolizing our death, burial and resurrection with Jesus as a result of what He accomplished on the Cross. Хмммм Итересно....

 

[lv2ski]

Question

How could God declare His Son a sacrifice for man before the world was ever created? Again...foreknew.

How does the prophetic work? by foreknowledge. Holy Spirit reveals to men.

I like it....forgot about that one

 

[Stephen63]

Ahh yes, when the kjv doesn't line up with your theology then become a bible corrector.

The teaching that it is Christ's faith that justifies and not my own individual faith. My faith can waiver. Christ's faith never waivers.

That teaching isn't biblical.

Lots of people know the KJV is inaccurate..... except you.

 

[John146]

Why yes of coarse. How many times have you told your kids about impending punishment, but upon their penitence you withheld? Why, because it works for motivation and because your will for you kids is their good. The truth is, good willed people hate spanking or grounding their kids. But we know that sometimes its all they respond to. How much more God.

As a side not to that: about 100 years later, God judged Nineveh because they returned to their pagan practices.

I'm not going to lie to my kids to get them to obey. Are you saying God lied to get Nineveh to repent? He did not give them an alternative. There was no "if you don't repent". It was simple. In forty days Nineveh will be destroyed.

 

[John146]

Question

How could God declare His Son a sacrifice for man before the world was ever created? Again...foreknew.

How does the prophetic work? by foreknowledge. Holy Spirit reveals to men.

Yes, God foreknew that He would send His Son to die on the cross. That's something God has declared to come to pass. Please show Scripture that God knows all man's future decisions. It's just not in Scripture. Again, let's allow Scripture to define God.

 

[lv2ski]

I'm not going to lie to my kids to get them to obey. Are you saying God lied to get Nineveh to repent? He did not give them an alternative. There was no "if you don't repent". It was simple. In forty days Nineveh will be destroyed.

How is that lying? Repent or I'm judging you. At this point there's no indication that you will. That's where this is going.

It's also demonstrating His sovereignty, mercy, and justice. I can judge, I will judge, it's right that I judge. I love you and will give you another chance, not because I have to, not because I should... I want to. Love believes all things, hopes all things, bears all things, love never fails.

I think you could also say, love doesn't always make intellectual sense.

 

[John146]

That teaching isn't biblical.

Lots of people know the KJV is inaccurate..... except you.

And where the NASB goes against my theology I'll go with another version. And when that version goes against my theology...