I'm Not Trying To Get to Heaven!!!

[BenFTW]

I have Jesus Christ, for what reason would I strive for that which He gives freely? I am not trying to get to Heaven, I am in Christ and therefore have arrived. I do not strive towards Heaven for I know that day will arrive, and it is because of Christ. Most men fight to stay saved, they sweat blood and tears striving for a place in eternity when the Gospel is a matter of receiving from the great giver known as God. All that men seek He is giving, for how much longer will they strive for that which He is bestowing gracefully? Salvation? Forgiveness? Liberty from sin? They are yours, for those that believe.

 

[phil36]

I am sure the Apostle Paul would differ with you.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3

 

[Utah]

John 3:16 has no amendments.

 

[BenFTW]

I am sure the Apostle Paul would differ with you.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3

Yes, in terms of rewards you are correct. In so far as salvation is concerned, we are saved by grace through faith. The point is that too many individuals have a perception of salvation as something that they must maintain in and of themselves when in fact salvation is of the Lord. Our salvation, our righteousness, is one of faith not works and we are saved unto good works. Not saved by but unto. God's grace is sufficient and the blood of the Lamb sufficient.

 

[MultilingualMessenger]

It's good to be assured, but be careful not to become sluggish.

Hebrews 4:9-11 - "Therefore, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God. And whoever enters into God's rest, rests from his own works as God did from his. Therefore, let us strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall after the same example of disobedience" (referring to Israel's disobedience, of lack of faith).

So be assured that it's there, and be sure to get there. (Have faith, and stay faithful.)

 

[KJV1611]

I have Jesus Christ, for what reason would I strive for that which He gives freely? I am not trying to get to Heaven, I am in Christ and therefore have arrived. I do not strive towards Heaven for I know that day will arrive, and it is because of Christ. Most men fight to stay saved, they sweat blood and tears striving for a place in eternity when the Gospel is a matter of receiving from the great giver known as God. All that men seek He is giving, for how much longer will they strive for that which He is bestowing gracefully? Salvation? Forgiveness? Liberty from sin? They are yours, for those that believe.

You've entered the promised land... you believed the account of the 2 and not the 10.

 

[BenFTW]

It's good to be assured, but be careful not to become sluggish.

Hebrews 4:9-11 - "Therefore, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God. And whoever enters into God's rest, rests from his own works as God did from his. Therefore, let us strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall after the same example of disobedience" (referring to Israel's disobedience, of lack of faith).

So be assured that it's there, and be sure to get there.

Those that rest work and those that work have no rest. It is the soul that rests in Christ that finishes the race. Those that do not rest are those that stumble and lay a stumbling block before others. The soul that is assured is the one that pushes onward, where as the soul that fears trembles of whats to come, having missed a revelation of His love. Honestly, what criminal is excited to stand before the judge that he knows he stands guilty before unless he knows he has pardon?

I think we should rejoice, and yes push onward, but knowing that this day we are saved in Jesus Christ.

 

[MultilingualMessenger]

Those that rest work and those that work have no rest. It is the soul that rests in Christ that finishes the race. Those that do not rest are those that stumble and lay a stumbling block before others. The soul that is assured is the one that pushes onward, where as the soul that fears trembles of whats to come, having missed a revelation of His love. Honestly, what criminal is excited to stand before the judge that he knows he stands guilty before unless he knows he has pardon?

I think we should rejoice, and yes push onward, but knowing that this day we are saved in Jesus Christ.

Of course. That's the faith we all should keep. And by virtue of keeping that faith, we strive to enter into that rest. After all, it was lack of faith that was the disobedience referred to in Hebrews, and by that, those people fell away. :/

 

[Grace777x70]

The goal is not to try to attain heaven. It is to know Him and the power of His resurrection. Phil. 3:10

Philippians 3:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

As believers in Christ we are already blessed and are seated with Christ in the heavenly places at the right hand of the gospel. The works-based religion is "trying to obtain" what is already ours in Christ. It is by grace through faith that we receive the things of Christ in our lives.

Ephesians 2:4-7 (NASB)
[SUP]4[/SUP] But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

[SUP]6 [/SUP] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

 

[BenFTW]

Of course. That's the faith we all should keep. And by virtue of keeping that faith, we strive to enter into that rest. After all, it was lack of faith that was the disobedience referred to in Hebrews, and by that, those people fell away. :/

We most definitely are to keep the faith, not in that we save ourselves but that we have truly believed (in the first place). In discussions with others its been said, "Yes, believers believe." By definition a believer will inherently do the very things people are so concerned about. A true conversion has fruits as a result of the salvation received.

 

[Grace777x70]

The only ones going to heaven when they die - are the ones that are from there. Get this gospel of the grace of Christ wrong and you end up with a religion of "trying to obtain" heaven by your performance.

Philippians 3:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

 

[phil36]

Yes, in terms of rewards you are correct. In so far as salvation is concerned, we are saved by grace through faith. The point is that too many individuals have a perception of salvation as something that they must maintain in and of themselves when in fact salvation is of the Lord. Our salvation, our righteousness, is one of faith not works and we are saved unto good works. Not saved by but unto. God's grace is sufficient and the blood of the Lamb sufficient.

Its not a reward, Paul is refering to a goal, that goal is heavenward, it is Christ. The prize to which he has already been called to (like all of us).

I agree and hope everyone else will that Our Justification (right standing) is by faith and not of works. Yep, God's grace is sufficient and Christs atoning Sacrifice is more than sufficient.

However, you blur the distinction of ones justification - right standing before God, which can only be had by Faith and Sanctification which is a synergistic work (good works) Doing these good works that you were saved unto (your words) are not burdensome (as some seem to try and imply), but they may actually be hard toil, extremely hard indeed (Imagine how hard it is to be a missionary in a hostile area)!! Good works are a joy, fulfilling and humbling, but also require YOU to do work and to do the work faithfully..its all part of Sanctification and under the broad umbrella term Salvation.

Now back to your original post, If I where you, I would take the apostle Paul's advice and strive for that prize. I agree that being in Christ we are already in the Kingdom, However, not yet. The Kingdom has yet to be consummated. I am afraid you have an over realized eschatology.

Balance is Key.

 

[BenFTW]

Its not a reward, Paul is refering to a goal, that goal is heavenward, it is Christ. The prize to which he has already been called to (like all of us).

I agree and hope everyone else will that Our Justification (right standing) is by faith and not of works. Yep, God's grace is sufficient and Christs atoning Sacrifice is more than sufficient.

However, you blur the distinction of ones justification - right standing before God, which can only be had by Faith and Sanctification which is a synergistic work (good works) Doing these good works that you were saved unto (your words) are not burdensome (as some seem to try and imply), but they may actually be hard toil, extremely hard indeed (Imagine how hard it is to be a missionary in a hostile area)!! Good works are a joy, fulfilling and humbling, but also require YOU to do work and to do the work faithfully..its all part of Sanctification and under the broad umbrella term Salvation.

Now back to your original post, If I where you, I would take the apostle Paul's advice and strive for that prize. I agree that being in Christ we are already in the Kingdom, However, not yet. The Kingdom has yet to be consummated. I am afraid you have an over realized eschatology.

Balance is Key.

I am simply rejoicing in the truth of the Gospel. I am making a parallel comparison of two people heavenward, but one is resting in Christ (albeit working as a result there of) and the other is working in ignorance to the rest available. There are people TRYING to get to Heaven. I am not trying. I have Jesus Christ.

That is my point, and you can be assured the Apostle Paul was surely as confident in Christ's sufficiency. He knew God's grace and it didn't limit his work, in fact it empowered him.

I agree, strive but strive to walk in the path the Lord has set before you. You are saved, now work out that salvation with fear and trembling (a distrust in your own abilities) and allow God to work through you for His glory, the works He has predestined.

 

[Cee]

Good works don't make you right before God. They reveal you are right before God. And the Bible doesn't actually teach you to do good works, it teaches to bear good fruit. James used the term "good works" for people who were denying the power of the gospel to transform people.

James shows us this because he parallel's Abraham who is the Father of faith, but how did we know Abraham had faith? By his works. But what were the works Abe did? He listened to God. Abe didn't have a doctrine, He had a Lord. The fruit of the Spirit is abiding with the Lord who is a Spirit. "Works" reveal our righteousness and faith, just like they did Abe's.

C.

 

[Cee]

I am sure the Apostle Paul would differ with you.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3

You said Paul is talking about taking hold of Christ. But the Scripture says Paul is taking hold of what Christ took a hold of for him. If Paul is believing he is going to be disqualified from the free gift of life, there is a lot of his letters that contradict. And also many of Jesus' statements. I believe a better idea that fits this context is: Paul didn't want to be disqualified from carrying his mandate for the gospel. He is using the "me" not "we" here for a reason. This is Paul's argument to pressing forward and not looking backward.

But regardless, the idea being presented here is "growing up in Christ". We have Christ, but the prize is growing up into maturity. That's why James says, patience is the perfect work, not lacking anything. When you understand what grace has accomplished, your faith will match it's effect. And the goal is to who you are becoming in Christ or growing up in Him. Maturity and fullness of love. Remember, Jesus says those who are my disciples will be known by their love for one another. Scripture is teaching us about love and then how we embody love to each other. This idea that we have to keep our salvation is what is causing many to fall behind in maturity. They haven't gone on to the higher things because they are still on milk. They are still infants of love because they have not yet accepted they are loved. And it is His love that empowers our love. And it is His love that never fails. That's why all the sacrifices, giftings, and callings mean nada if we have not love. This is the perfect that is coming that Paul is addressing in 1 Co 12-14.

Love.

Tradition tells us that the Apostle John (the Beloved) used to say one thing, little children love one another.

C.

 

[phil36]

Good works don't make you right before God. They reveal you are right before God. And the Bible doesn't actually teach you to do good works, it teaches to bear good fruit. James used the term "good works" for people who were denying the power of the gospel to transform people.

James shows us this because he parallel's Abraham who is the Father of faith, but how did we know Abraham had faith? By his works. But what were the works Abe did? He listened to God. Abe didn't have a doctrine, He had a Lord. The fruit of the Spirit is abiding with the Lord who is a Spirit. "Works" reveal our righteousness and faith, just like they did Abe's.

C.

No one has said good works make you right with God... that would be a works based righteousness which is wrong.

Ephesians 2 sums it up lovely, for here we see justification and sanctification. (Justification first, the Sanctification).. notice how God has already planned good works for you to do!

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 not by works, so that no one can boast.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.[/FONT]

 

[MultilingualMessenger]

We most definitely are to keep the faith, not in that we save ourselves but that we have truly believed (in the first place). In discussions with others its been said, "Yes, believers believe." By definition a believer will inherently do the very things people are so concerned about. A true conversion has fruits as a result of the salvation received.

Agreed. By faith, obedience comes. (For examples, see Hebrews 11)

I'm not sure of this, but I think you might be thinking I'm talking about striving as works to be saved. I assure you that I'm not. Instead, I'm saying that keeping the faith is the striving that is referred to in Hebrews. Hebrews is a call to faith, saying "let us strive", and reminding the Hebrews of the consequences that came to those who did not obey God by being faithful, and the blessings that came to those who did.

So yeah...you kinda do strive...when you think of striving as keeping faith.

But striving as works to get into Heaven...no bueno

 

[Cee]

So you're saying works come as a result of salvation? How is this different from what BenFTW has been posting?

No one has said good works make you right with God... that would be a works based righteousness which is wrong.

Ephesians 2 sums it up lovely, for here we see justification and sanctification. (Justification first, the Sanctification).. notice how God has already planned good works for you to do!

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast.10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[Cee]

Okay so the issue I'm having here is that you're saying "good works", but the problem I have with this is how vague it is without the entire context of the letter Paul wrote. A legalist could easily slip in "going to church" is a good work that is required for salvation. Scripture actually teaches "good works" is loving one another. One of them comes as a result of being saved (i.e. being loved and forgiven). And if you want to get into the deeper ideas, the "good works" is really just "good fruit". And this comes from abiding in Christ.

If you're talking about "work" as in physical labor we do that unto the Lord. Everything we do is unto the Lord.

Obedience could be classified as a "good work", but that's just a fruit as well. Because it's the goodness and kindness of God that leads us to repentance.

Everything "WE" do is a fruit of what He did. And you know your mind is being renewed when you get away from it's "required of me" and into "I get to do the things of God". And ultimately into, I was created to do the good works of God because I am being conformed into His image.

C.

No one has said good works make you right with God... that would be a works based righteousness which is wrong.

Ephesians 2 sums it up lovely, for here we see justification and sanctification. (Justification first, the Sanctification).. notice how God has already planned good works for you to do!

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast.10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[phil36]

So you're saying works come as a result of salvation? How is this different from what BenFTW has been posting?

If your carefully read post #12 both mine and Bens comments, you may get it.