Helmet of "Hope of Salvation"

[PeterJens]

It is not for me to judge who is saved and who is not. Only God and the individual knows.
I am certain because the Holy Spirit that dwells within me assures me.
I find it very difficult to understand how one could live in doubt and keep one's sanity.
Again, not judging, just stating where I am in my relationship with my Lord and Savior.

It is an interesting idea you are presenting. Jesus says what He says. But there are many
who you would regard as lost yet use words similar to yourself. So yes we presume much, and
can also be wrong, but that is where humbleness comes in.

Someone can write me a cheque. It is a guarantee of money, but only has value when it is
cashed. And the cash itself is also another type of promise. Sometimes all these fail, but
probably not. It is this area where humbleness and boundaries come in. Without checking
knowing, exploring do we find the truth. Nothing is certain, all is assumption.

I know christians who are not sure they have a relationship at all. Or others who had this sense
but now have completely lost it. Interestingly a promise does not rely on ones emotional conviction
but on the promise giver, Praise the Lord.

When you realise there are no absolutes, just assumptions, you begin to see the boundaries of
conviction and certainty. Now you can assume there are absolutes, which is ironic, because many
do not understand this is an assumption. They will get very angry at me, but I do not define these
boundaries or realities, they are what they are.

One indicator of people who have got it wrong when they start attempting to proclaim absolutes.

 

[Grace777x70]

This written by John is an example of New testament hope based on Christ's finished work for us.

I don't believe John is lying here so I look at myself as a "believer". Having this hope creates in us a sound mind when our minds are renewed to the truth of the Good News that is called the gospel of Christ Himself.

Having this "security" creates the proper environment for "maturity" as in any relationship. He is faithful to us and His work is perfect. We can trust in Him for all things.

Here is one absolute that can bring true hope to our minds if we believe it.

1 John 5:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[PeterJens]

Having this "security" creates the proper environment for "maturity" as in any relationship.

Security is founded on discovering the boundaries, and seeing what is the extent of
what is ok and what is not.

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

Fear is discovering boundaries, knowing what the limits are.
If you cannot honour the boundaries, relationships do not work.
Security is created because these boundaries are known and agreed.

Some want unbounded security which does not exist anywhere in life.
So building a theology on this idea, will lead to heresy and distortions from which
there is no recovery.

Maturity in everyone is knowing how to escalate from minor issue to completely
dangerous, emergency issues that are applicable.

So what is written here by G7 just does not reflect life or christianity.

But it sounds so perfect, the idea you are just caught no matter what, but this is just
delusion, and nothing in life is like this.

 

[Grace777x70]

In the security that comes with knowing Christ and believing in what He has done - this "security" that is only found in Him brings with it "no fear" because fear involves punishment.

Fear or reverence for God is the beginning of wisdom but Christ Himself is the end or culmination of all wisdom. He Himself is made unto us wisdom from God. 1 Cor. 1:30

We need to be established in the love of God for us in order to grow in maturity. Security in Him brings on this maturity that is available in Him for our sound minds to be manifested. This is a part of having on the helmet of the hope of salvation. Hope is the confident expectation of good - never is it defined as a "maybe or maybe not" - that is the world's way of defining hope.

1 John 4:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

 

[PeterJens]

fear involves punishment.

Again a false teacher links thing incorrectly.
Fear is linked to pain, and risk. When we drive a car, we are scared at the consequences
of making a mistake. We fear this so are cautious and stick to the procedures and boundaries
of good driving.

Fear is part of a healthy life. If you have met fearless people, you realise how irresponsible
they can be, because they have no understanding of real risk and caution.

Paul says in Christ we should work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
So the whole construct of G7 is wrong, and against the tenor of scripture.

You should be very cautious of the Lord. Israel who took being chosen for granted,
where killed, sent into slavery, decimated and everything taken from them.

This is your King, your God, yet here is a man saying it is all ok, no worries, no restraint
or caution required. Jesus warns people severly about the dangers of sin. If you sin,
you will be thrown into the lake of fire, so it is better to loose a part of your body than
suffer this.

Now if you walk in love, truly there is not reason to fear, but G7 and his group openly
admit they feel walking in love is very hard and they often fail, so they have good
reason to fear and be cautious, but for them, presumption and no respect is the way
forward.

And the brothers and sisters in Christ are seen as the biggest enemies, which is odd
for such a spiritual truthful movement. Maybe it is actually none of these things.

 

[LaurenTM]

Again a false teacher links thing incorrectly.
Fear is linked to pain, and risk. When we drive a car, we are scared at the consequences
of making a mistake. We fear this so are cautious and stick to the procedures and boundaries
of good driving.

Fear is part of a healthy life. If you have met fearless people, you realise how irresponsible
they can be, because they have no understanding of real risk and caution.

Paul says in Christ we should work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
So the whole construct of G7 is wrong, and against the tenor of scripture.

You should be very cautious of the Lord. Israel who took being chosen for granted,
where killed, sent into slavery, decimated and everything taken from them.

This is your King, your God, yet here is a man saying it is all ok, no worries, no restraint
or caution required. Jesus warns people severly about the dangers of sin. If you sin,
you will be thrown into the lake of fire, so it is better to loose a part of your body than
suffer this.

Now if you walk in love, truly there is not reason to fear, but G7 and his group openly
admit they feel walking in love is very hard and they often fail, so they have good
reason to fear and be cautious, but for them, presumption and no respect is the way
forward.

And the brothers and sisters in Christ are seen as the biggest enemies, which is odd
for such a spiritual truthful movement. Maybe it is actually none of these things.

and yet perfect love casts out fear

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. I John 4:18

I dunno, but I see above, IN scripture, where fear involves punishment

so unless John was a heretic?

how did we get here from the helmet of salvation?

no wonder things get so darn awful confusing in the BDF

people get a hold of something and wrestle with it like a gator is chewing on their leg or something...like a matter of life or death when actually, it's just an opinion that is far removed from the truth

I'm not even taking sides....but the verse says plainly what is says

and the helmet of salvation is not a vain hope...it protects what you already have so you don't fall to lies and temptations

Fear is part of a healthy life. If you have met fearless people, you realise how irresponsible
they can be, because they have no understanding of real risk and caution.

really?

a hero is often defined as someone who OVERCOMES their fears and does what is needed in spite of the fear

that, takes guts...

IMO, just another PERSONAL conflict in the guise of biblical doctrine...ie: hiding behind the Bible to spite another

 

[Grace777x70]

The hope of salvation manifests in us walking in the love of God that is already in us in Christ.

Walking in the love of God is very simple when we know that we have died with Christ and we have been raised to new life in Christ now in His resurrection. The love of God has been poured into our hearts now from the Holy Spirit who is one with our spirit.

We love because He first loved us. Knowing this love of God for us "releases" His love in us to manifest His love in and through us to others.

As to "with fear and trembling" work out your salvation. It is talking about working out what is already in us in our new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

For it is God who is at work in us to both give us the desire and the capability to do His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13


Fear and trembling is misunderstood. It means a "lack of trust in one's own abilities." In other words, we are dependent upon Jesus Christ and rest in Him. Look in the verses that use that saying, even the apostle Paul spoke of preaching with fear and much trembling, meaning distrusting in his own abilities and relying on the Spirit's power.

It is an interesting to study out in the N.T. the term "fear and trembling". It is not what it was in the O.T.

If we let scripture interpret scripture we see that in the 2 other places where "fear and trembling" was used it referred to the woman with the issue of blood and Jesus healed her. She experienced the goodness and love of Jesus and she had awe and reverence for the goodness done to her.

Mark 5:33 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.


The other usage was Paul and he was referring to having no confidence in himself as he was coming to preach the gospel to the Corinthians. 1 Cor. 2:3-5

Fear and trembling = being in awe and reverence of the goodness of God to us and our complete reliance on Him for all things..especially in preaching the gospel or any good works that come from Him living in and through us.

It is never being "afraid" of God. It's knowing His love for us that takes away the bad kind of fear.

1 John 4:17-19 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]We love, because He first loved us.

 

[oldethennew]

when one reaches the 'step' where there is no doubt or never will be, ever again, then I
would say that that person is very blessed and to be blessed by those who are right
behind him...

 

[Persuaded]

It is an interesting idea you are presenting. Jesus says what He says. But there are many
who you would regard as lost yet use words similar to yourself. So yes we presume much, and
can also be wrong, but that is where humbleness comes in.

Someone can write me a cheque. It is a guarantee of money, but only has value when it is
cashed. And the cash itself is also another type of promise. Sometimes all these fail, but
probably not. It is this area where humbleness and boundaries come in. Without checking
knowing, exploring do we find the truth. Nothing is certain, all is assumption.

I know christians who are not sure they have a relationship at all. Or others who had this sense
but now have completely lost it. Interestingly a promise does not rely on ones emotional conviction
but on the promise giver, Praise the Lord.

When you realise there are no absolutes, just assumptions, you begin to see the boundaries of
conviction and certainty. Now you can assume there are absolutes, which is ironic, because many
do not understand this is an assumption. They will get very angry at me, but I do not define these
boundaries or realities, they are what they are.

One indicator of people who have got it wrong when they start attempting to proclaim absolutes.

It seem by what you say, you are not sure you have eternal life, you only hope you do.
In your opinion, no one can be sure, only hope.
We will not know for sure until we stand before the Lord.
That seem to doubt God promise to those who by faith believe.
I disagree. I know because of God's Word and the presence of the Holy Spirit within me.

 

[PeterJens]

and yet perfect love casts out fear

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. I John 4:18

I dunno, but I see above, IN scripture, where fear involves punishment

so unless John was a heretic?

how did we get here from the helmet of salvation?

no wonder things get so darn awful confusing in the BDF

people get a hold of something and wrestle with it like a gator is chewing on their leg or something...like a matter of life or death when actually, it's just an opinion that is far removed from the truth

I'm not even taking sides....but the verse says plainly what is says

and the helmet of salvation is not a vain hope...it protects what you already have so you don't fall to lies and temptations




really?

a hero is often defined as someone who OVERCOMES their fears and does what is needed in spite of the fear

that, takes guts...

IMO, just another PERSONAL conflict in the guise of biblical doctrine...ie: hiding behind the Bible to spite another

There is a strange thing about fear, is when fear is turned into a sin.
I mentioned in one thread Elijah feared for his life and ran for it. It as regarded as he
sinned. In reality he was right to be scared, because the threat from Jezebel was real.
Jezebel had no fear of God, yet she was the one who died and was judged.

Courage is despite fear you overcome. Shadrack, Meshek and Abenigo all feared the fire,
but knew God could deliver them, and if not they would happily die rather than bow the knee.

Perfect love casts out fear, or the sense of rejection, when you know you are accepted.
Fear though is healthy for everyone. It seems some have abandoned this reality.

Now terror is not healthy, paralizing fear that stops all function, or a phobia fear that stops
you from functioning. Unfortunately in english other than terror, we do not have a word that
deals with this type of fear which is not healthy but debilitating.

To get fear in proportion, we all have a flight or fight response to a threat. This again is very
healthy and there for our good, which empowers us in dangerous situations.

And the fact I have to mention all this suggests people are really off centre.

1 John 4:18 John is referring to fear of God. He is saying if we walk with perfect love flowing
from our hearts we have nothing to fear. Fear in this context is only related to punishment.

Now the context of what John is writing about is obviously about fear before the Lord.
Now if people extend this to fear in general, then they are going out of the context John is
referring to, but if you want to do this, ofcourse you can.

For instance if I am holding a baby and stumble I will have a fear response, for good reason.
Now if you follow the idea fear is evil, then you should take no precautions because there is
nothing to fear, it will be dealt with.

 

[PeterJens]

This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
1 John 4:17

John is describing why we should not fear God. Perfect love when it is complete among us
we will have confidence on the day of judgement, because we are like Jesus on earth.

But surprisingly those who are claiming fear is sin, are also denying they are perfect love
on earth or are like Jesus. So according to this verse they love to quote, they have good
reason to fear, because it does not cover them.

 

[Persuaded]

This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
1 John 4:17

John is describing why we should not fear God. Perfect love when it is complete among us
we will have confidence on the day of judgement, because we are like Jesus on earth.

But surprisingly those who are claiming fear is sin, are also denying they are perfect love
on earth or are like Jesus. So according to this verse they love to quote, they have good
reason to fear, because it does not cover them.

So you can judge someone not saved, but only hope you are.

 

[dcontroversal]

Post 4 and 5 <-----the truth.......salvation is secure in Christ....it is his faith, his blood, his sacrifice, his sealing, his work, his grace, his mercy, his power and the bible teaches that WHATSOEVER GOD DOES..it is eternal, not temporary or something that can be lost....In the Father's hand, in the Son's hand and sealed with the prepayment of our eternal inheritance......the word Hope means a confident expectation of something given that will be received...He who began a good work in you will FINISH IT..JESUS is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith........!

 

[oldethennew]

it's the un-expected that befalls us at certain times that we must be prepared for,
but YES, if you have received your 'true calling', you are made to understand
that the mastering of the un-expected events in your life is what God expects of us,
it's not always a smooth road, it can often be a 'road of thorns' before the dawn...

 

[PeterJens]

So you can judge someone not saved, but only hope you are.

Now I think you missed the irony.
If someone claims a verse applies they have to read the meaning, the reason why it is written
and then whether it applies to them.

What I find amusing is those who take eternal issues, issues before the Holy One, the Lord most
High, read it quickly, see the promise and then apply it before they perceive its real meaning.

Now remember I am not judging anyone, I am just laying out the meaning of the word.

Ones own conscience will do the rest. In this game there is no game, only light.
I stand in awe of the Lord my King, and His word. It is sharper than a two edged sword,
it divides the soul and spirit, it perceives the very heart of who we are.

Ones words quickly spoken, argued, laid out, will come back and stand there.
Fear, yes we should fear if we miss-use the Kings intent or words. To man, they are nothing,
but the Lord declares them eternal.

I do not hope I am saved, I trust Jesus, it is in the Lambs book of life that my fate rests.
I am not saved because of who I am but because of what Jesus has done. I owe all to Him
and can presume nothing but bow in worship of my King.

Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
2 Tim 4:8

We are servants of our King, and he will do as His perfect will sees fit.

 

[oldethennew]

we can/learn to except and acknowledge, when Jesus tells us who we are and what
He expects of us in His World = we will walk in deliverance from the 'bondage' of this world...
Bar-None...

 

[Persuaded]

I do not hope I am saved, I trust Jesus, it is in the Lambs book of life that my fate rests.
I am not saved because of who I am but because of what Jesus has done. I owe all to Him
and can presume nothing but bow in worship of my King.

Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
2 Tim 4:8

We are servants of our King, and he will do as His perfect will sees fit.

So you do not hope but trust Jesus and what He did.
So do I and as I have said many times, The Holy Spirit that dwells within me as a believer assures me of eternal life.
Do you not have that assurance from the Holy Spirit?
Do you not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you?
Why would you question my assurance?
Why would you question that I have no doubt?

 

[Persuaded]

Now I think you missed the irony.
If someone claims a verse applies they have to read the meaning, the reason why it is written
and then whether it applies to them.

What I find amusing is those who take eternal issues, issues before the Holy One, the Lord most
High, read it quickly, see the promise and then apply it before they perceive its real meaning.

Now remember I am not judging anyone, I am just laying out the meaning of the word.

Ones own conscience will do the rest. In this game there is no game, only light.
I stand in awe of the Lord my King, and His word. It is sharper than a two edged sword,
it divides the soul and spirit, it perceives the very heart of who we are.

Ones words quickly spoken, argued, laid out, will come back and stand there.
Fear, yes we should fear if we miss-use the Kings intent or words. To man, they are nothing,
but the Lord declares them eternal.

I do not hope I am saved, I trust Jesus, it is in the Lambs book of life that my fate rests.
I am not saved because of who I am but because of what Jesus has done. I owe all to Him
and can presume nothing but bow in worship of my King.

Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
2 Tim 4:8

We are servants of our King, and he will do as His perfect will sees fit.

I will give you this-----------
You are a man of many words-------

 

[oldethennew]

doubt is the master of one kind of insanity, fear is another, etc...
only our Saviour can show us the difference...Faith-Hope-Charity...

 

[PeterJens]

So you do not hope but trust Jesus and what He did.
So do I and as I have said many times, The Holy Spirit that dwells within me as a believer assures me of eternal life.
Do you not have that assurance from the Holy Spirit?
Do you not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you?
Why would you question my assurance?
Why would you question that I have no doubt?

I have been assured of many things, and they have turned out differently than expected.
I have assurance I know Jesus. I have assurance that the Holy Spirit dwells with me, but
as cc declares time and again, I could be mistaken, lost and empty, blind and deceived,
hypocritical and evil.

Often the very people I am sharing with, who say they follow the same Lord, believe
the same words yet suddenly turn around and say we are different. Now that is confusing,
it suggests to me something else is at work here and it is easier to believe you are assured
and comforted, but maybe this is not true.

So I come back to Jesus and His words. Even the apostles talk about following the commands
of Christ, and loving ones brothers and sisters in Christ, confessing Jesus is Lord, rose from the
dead as affirmation that the Holy Spirit dwells within us. So I say Amen to this.

But in no way is this simple.