Women Pastors? Help me.
- Thread starter DevonS
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Have you ever learned any foreign language?There are situations, when some word or sentence in the foreign language can be translated in two different ways into yours. And vice versa.
In such cases you can not know which one to make unless you have more information.
So both choices are only opinion of the translator.
BTW why do you want it to say "childbearing" so much? What sense would it make?
S
Have you ever learned any foreign language?There are situations, when some word or sentence in the foreign language can be translated in two different ways into yours. And vice versa.
In such cases you can not know which one to make unless you have more information.
So both choices are only opinion of the translator.
BTW why do you want it to say "childbearing" so much? What sense would it make?
If you understand linguistics then you'll know that you can't translate something from a source language into a destination language two different ways. There is only one way to translate from the source language to the destination language and I'm pretty sure that most Modern English translations get it right.
I don't want it to say anything, it says what it says and I believe what it says and the point you tried to slip through unchallenged was you referring to Jesus as a child being born when it did not. I have been debating on Christian forms for quite some time and I've been studying the Bible for over 45 years now so nothing gets by me.
Really? Let us put it into a test.
In Czech, we have a word "pánev". It can mean:
a) a pan
b) a pelvis
c) a basin
So when I write "Vidím (I see) pánev" and you will not know any other information, what translation will you choose?
a) I see a pan.
b) I see a pelvis.
c) I see a basin.
Actually, all three are possible. Context can tell you more.
In Czech, we have a word "pánev". It can mean:
a) a pan
b) a pelvis
c) a basin
So when I write "Vidím (I see) pánev" and you will not know any other information, what translation will you choose?
a) I see a pan.
b) I see a pelvis.
c) I see a basin.
Actually, all three are possible. Context can tell you more.
it is amusing to see folks try to prove that the earth is not round because they do not like a round earth. Some folks sure have a high opinion of their intellect, they think they are going to correct God. It is apparent from the tone in 1Cor 14:34-38 that Paul was rebuking that church because they were allowing women to be in authority over men in the assembly. If you think about it, it was an easy enough thing to happen because women have the same indwelling Spirit and the same ability to preach or prophesy, however Paul wanted them to know that this was not the will of God. In one sense there is no difference between male and female in Christ, but not in the sense of leadership in the church. Remember, the one who said that there is no difference between male and female in Christ ALSO said that it is the will of God for the men to lead in an assembly.
Thank you Devon for your sincerity in asking about this.
I would not doubt someone's calling if they are producing good fruit. God can call and use anyone he wants. God called Paul the apostle when the man was a former hunter of christians. Now Paul might reasonably say, don't allow christian-killing pharisees to be your leaders; it is generally a good idea. That does not mean that God can't make a leader out of one just to keep us from getting legalistic about it. That is one way that he used Paul.
I believe Paul was taking a stance on woman leaders because of specific issues in that time. If a church is combating a spiritual attack from some sort of jezebel or other feminine spirit, it may try to use society's protectiveness of women to cover someone who is giving false teaching or operating out of her own ego. So then it makes sense to respond, and it may be wise to set a policy for as long as it's needed to counter that tactic. However the holy spirit is still in charge and will make exceptions that confuse us -- and drive us to question and learn and understand God's heart.
So about those questions. Generally it seems that the Holy Spirit uses men to lead, at least in an outward and visible sense. The inward leading and behind the scenes is also important. But why is it that way -- does God value men more? Well did God value Christ less than us when he had Christ serve us and suffer humiliation and torture for us? Of course not, Christ was precious to God. But part of what qualifies Christ to be a leader is that he wasn't vainly comparing himself and jealously desiring a position. God uses the gender roles to teach us that we all have to submit and serve in some ways, and we all have to lead and take authority in some ways. The best leader is humble like a servant, and the greatest service makes you a leader whether people see you or not. These qualities are interwoven, they depend on eachother. So we each do all these things, in our life and in the spirit, but we learn about them by seeing clear examples in the natural.
Bless you brother and bless your pastor. As long as Holy Spirit is in charge then that's all that matters. But of course that will draw attacks from religious spirits, but perhaps this is God's way to keep them off balance. Keep measuring by the fruit and just stay open to what the Holy Spirit says is going on spiritually.
I would not doubt someone's calling if they are producing good fruit. God can call and use anyone he wants. God called Paul the apostle when the man was a former hunter of christians. Now Paul might reasonably say, don't allow christian-killing pharisees to be your leaders; it is generally a good idea. That does not mean that God can't make a leader out of one just to keep us from getting legalistic about it. That is one way that he used Paul.
I believe Paul was taking a stance on woman leaders because of specific issues in that time. If a church is combating a spiritual attack from some sort of jezebel or other feminine spirit, it may try to use society's protectiveness of women to cover someone who is giving false teaching or operating out of her own ego. So then it makes sense to respond, and it may be wise to set a policy for as long as it's needed to counter that tactic. However the holy spirit is still in charge and will make exceptions that confuse us -- and drive us to question and learn and understand God's heart.
So about those questions. Generally it seems that the Holy Spirit uses men to lead, at least in an outward and visible sense. The inward leading and behind the scenes is also important. But why is it that way -- does God value men more? Well did God value Christ less than us when he had Christ serve us and suffer humiliation and torture for us? Of course not, Christ was precious to God. But part of what qualifies Christ to be a leader is that he wasn't vainly comparing himself and jealously desiring a position. God uses the gender roles to teach us that we all have to submit and serve in some ways, and we all have to lead and take authority in some ways. The best leader is humble like a servant, and the greatest service makes you a leader whether people see you or not. These qualities are interwoven, they depend on eachother. So we each do all these things, in our life and in the spirit, but we learn about them by seeing clear examples in the natural.
Bless you brother and bless your pastor. As long as Holy Spirit is in charge then that's all that matters. But of course that will draw attacks from religious spirits, but perhaps this is God's way to keep them off balance. Keep measuring by the fruit and just stay open to what the Holy Spirit says is going on spiritually.
Last edited:
One more thing -- Personally I'd say, don't accept the world's teaching that it's evil and sexist to have more men, and don't accept a religious teaching that says it's always men, because either teaching is taking it away from God to decide. The reason God does things Gods' way is to get us to keep growing and understanding and approaching God directly instead of thinking we have it all figured out. 'lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct your paths'.
Y
For you people who just won't understand culture, take the time to research the word, "Mechitza."
This is one type of a Mechtiza in use to "keep women in their place."
This is one type of a Mechtiza in use to "keep women in their place."
I looked it up and found it quite interesting. Some years ago I visited a Synagogue in Vancouver British Columbia and they did not have a Mechitza, and both men and women were a part of the service.
After the service they indulged me and I exasperated them with many questions. They kept referring to me as Catholic because I am anti-abortion. I tried explaining to them that many people who are not Catholic are not for abortion. They explained that they are not anti-abortion because the fetus is a "potential life," and the life of the mother is more important. Since Adam did not become "a living being" until God breathed life into him, they believed that a person was not a living being until they took their first breath. As I am writing this I am thinking about how Adam was formed from the dust and once God breathed in him that all humans following him had their "life blood" flowing through them in the womb. Genesis 9:4 New NKJV: "But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood."
I am reminded that Jesus talked with the Samaritan woman at the well and He revealed to her that He is the Christ (something He did not even do for the religious leaders of that day because He knew they would not receive Him). Jesus' disciples marvelled that He talked with the woman but no one dare ask Him about it. Giving it some thought I am not sure that the Mechitza would be in place to oppress women, or an attempt protect men from carnal thoughts while they are worshipping God?
Again, in closing please pray for me as I am both in pain from the aforementioned major surgery and from the autoimmune disease having caused so much premature deterioration. My limbs have much deformity and I covet yours, or any God fearing person's prayers. God bless and peace to you.
He also acknowledged women in positions of authority within the church and further stated that any elders (anyone with such a position within the church) should be able to teach. Interesting how you are doing the very thing that you FALSELY accuse others of doing. You probably don't see it that way, and you are free to be as blind as you please. God has poured His Spirit on all people. I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy... your ignorance precludes you from acknowledging that to prophesy includes teaching. The freedom we have in Christ means we need not be limited by your ignorance, and for that I praise the Lord
D
Except the text does not say that Eve was being deceptive AT ALL, it says she was deceived. Big difference, in my view. So you can read all that in there and add to Scripture all you like, while I shall refrain. And for the record, I am not bent out of shape or being huffy. LOL. Now maybe you are saying that to me and meaning other people, sometimes you say the darndest things while quoting me and then tell me you were not talking to me at all. So you can understand perhaps why you are confused in my view, not just to add to Scripture as you so clearly have but to address me in ways that are not applicable to me.
There is neither male male nor female in Christ Jesus. Given what I see some of the men here say, I am far more qualified to teach than they are. None of them are my husband that I should submit to them either! Nor are we in church. Otherwise you would have to shut up also!
The office of Elders, pastors and bishops
There is a site that makes the claim that all elders in a church as per Scripture should be able to teach. That would include women by default, and nobody can honestly claim that women were not elders in the first century church.
There is neither male male nor female in Christ Jesus. Given what I see some of the men here say, I am far more qualified to teach than they are. None of them are my husband that I should submit to them either! Nor are we in church. Otherwise you would have to shut up also!
The office of Elders, pastors and bishops
There is a site that makes the claim that all elders in a church as per Scripture should be able to teach. That would include women by default, and nobody can honestly claim that women were not elders in the first century church.
Should I turn it into what you just did and also say, "So you can read all that in there and add to Scripture all you like, while I shall refrain?"
Yeah, seriously. You're huffy. You're just trying to hold it in and turn it into a virtue. You do that a lot -- to me, and to others. It's annoying. (And, I am now making sure you are quoted above what I've written to back up these words too. I'm not saying this is scripture either.)
You refrain about as well as I do. At least I don't then tell you how I'm refraining when I'm obviously not refraining.
BTW, is that site scripture now? Since you refrained from going outside of scripture and all.
Be snotty all you want, but at least be open about it. Poor Trofimus didn't get you were being snotty for so long and he was being civil back. Not your strong suit.
You've just hit that level LaurenTM already hit long ago. So consistently smug, you're not worth reading anymore. BTW, NOT a qualification for teaching. Good bye. You're on ignored. (I will still pray you feel better and heal though.)
Lynn needs to read the Bible and stop falsely accusing others of adding
to Scripture when they do not, unless Lynn loves being a false accuser,
which more and more does actually seem to be the case.
Romans 5:19 should be enough to convince anyone that Adam's transgression was counted as disobedience when common sense fails them to inform them of such.
NIV For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
ASB For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous.
KJV For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Perhaps Lynn is also too much in the dark to realize that it is Adam who is being referred to there. Someone should tell her since she has multiple times falsely accused me and now put me on ignore due to her offenses being pointed out to her.
to Scripture when they do not, unless Lynn loves being a false accuser,
which more and more does actually seem to be the case.
Romans 5:19 should be enough to convince anyone that Adam's transgression was counted as disobedience when common sense fails them to inform them of such.
NIV For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
ASB For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous.
KJV For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Perhaps Lynn is also too much in the dark to realize that it is Adam who is being referred to there. Someone should tell her since she has multiple times falsely accused me and now put me on ignore due to her offenses being pointed out to her.