Did Christ do enough to save us?

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wwjd_kilden said:
let's say that Jesus came across a man who was caught drunk drivink.

PeterJens: According to you, Jesus says
"If you believe in me, and never drive drunk again, then I will pay your fine (eventually)

What Jesus says is:
"If you believe in me, I will pay your fine right now , but if you do believe in me, I want you to change your ways from now on and stop drunk driving (and to help others with this or other issues).
Click to expand...

Let me say, this is a very legalistic interpretation, and demonstrates your background.
Jesus has paid the fine, we just need to claim it.
His condition is we admit what we did was wrong and commit to not repeat it.

Now your projection was to add "and never " which is not a commitment, but a recorded action
which if fulfilled, ie perfection, means you are forgiven when proved.

Now this is not what I am saying, but it demonstrates your hatred of repentance and commitment
to walk righteously. Read Ezek 18:21-26 to get what repentance is in Gods terms.

What this illustrates is bringing into the light where you really all stand.
It is between you and the Lord how you resolve these issue, for me scripture is
obvious. I am called just to testify to it, and to my heart.
 
PrynceNY said:
As the scriptures states:

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.


Acts 17:30
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,


Luke 9:23
Then he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.


"If" people refuse do that that's on them it's no real point in going back & forth with arguments. Everyone will stand before the lord individually & have to give an account.
Click to expand...
The thing is the natural man..The lost man is a natural man....wants nothing to do with Christ. The preaching of the cross is foolishness to him. 1 Corinthians 1:18. He can not understand the things of God because he is devoid of God's Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:14. He is in the flesh and can not please God. Romans 8:8.

God..

He has to overcome all these obstacles in his life first, because he can not and will not overcome them himself.
 
False teachers continuously conflate evidence of true conversion as the cause of conversion, thus the OP. :(
 
preacher4truth said:
You ended your OP with the last four bold words with which you should have begun it.
Click to expand...

I think this illustrates the diversity of understanding we have here.

I shared with someone once who went to a full gospel church.
I said we are saved through faith alone in Christ.

He looked at me like I was an alien. He had no clue what the words meant.
Now to me faith in Christ is knowing His sacrifice brings forgiveness for my sins.

But the differences people have within this are amazing and suggests there is value
in discussing why people have these differences. Some will be heretical, bringing
condemnation on others, and missing the belief that Jesus saved us to be changed through
our walk and communion with Him.

Now this is my conviction, and if anything cc has made it stronger and more urgent a subject
to talk about. The enemy is so adamant about their conviction, they regard me as evil and
an anti-christ. I understand their logic, which is the flip side of an argument why denial of
the transforming work of communion with Christ, is a denial of the cross, makes sense.

Most arguments have a mirror, which can work if not tied into other arguments.

And about to and fros. We have had this for years, but progess is being made, and things
clarified, which means the light is shinning brighter still, and more can be reached and life
spread.
 
PeterJens said:
Let me say, this is a very legalistic interpretation, and demonstrates your background.
Jesus has paid the fine, we just need to claim it.
His condition is we admit what we did was wrong and commit to not repeat it.

Now your projection was to add "and never " which is not a commitment, but a recorded action
which if fulfilled, ie perfection, means you are forgiven when proved.

Now this is not what I am saying, but it demonstrates your hatred of repentance and commitment
to walk righteously. Read Ezek 18:21-26 to get what repentance is in Gods terms.

What this illustrates is bringing into the light where you really all stand.
It is between you and the Lord how you resolve these issue, for me scripture is
obvious. I am called just to testify to it, and to my heart.
Click to expand...

Hello PJ,

Have you taken notice that everything you say points to you and what you (think) you've done, and is always used to vindicate you and exalt you while you demean others and make false accusations?
 
PeterJens said:
I think this illustrates the diversity of understanding we have here.

I shared with someone once who went to a full gospel church.
I said we are saved through faith alone in Christ.

He looked at me like I was an alien. He had no clue what the words meant.
Now to me faith in Christ is knowing His sacrifice brings forgiveness for my sins.

But the differences people have within this are amazing and suggests there is value
in discussing why people have these differences. Some will be heretical, bringing
condemnation on others, and missing the belief that Jesus saved us to be changed through
our walk and communion with Him.

Now this is my conviction, and if anything cc has made it stronger and more urgent a subject
to talk about. The enemy is so adamant about their conviction, they regard me as evil and
an anti-christ. I understand their logic, which is the flip side of an argument why denial of
the transforming work of communion with Christ, is a denial of the cross, makes sense.

Most arguments have a mirror, which can work if not tied into other arguments.

And about to and fros. We have had this for years, but progess is being made, and things
clarified, which means the light is shinning brighter still, and more can be reached and life
spread.
Click to expand...


But...

You went off the rails when you posted "Did Christ do enough to save us? No." That's heresy.
 
PeterJens said:
We are called to bring things into the light.
Click to expand...

Your teaching would make for some good mushroom farming.

I am provocative, but then this is how we grow and develop.
Click to expand...

I haven't met a false teacher who wasn't provocative, or missing out on self-proclamation of their 'growth' and 'development'. That being said, you're no maverick.
 
preacher4truth said:
Your teaching would make for some good mushroom farming.



I haven't met a false teacher who wasn't provocative, or missing out on self-proclamation of their 'growth' and 'development'. That being said, you're no maverick.
Click to expand...
Ppl state they know God, but does God know them? I rest in Him knowing me, and knowing it was He, and nothing I did added to, Him saving me.
 
SovereignGrace said:
If we add one thing, regardless how small it may be, to the finished work of the cross, then the cross was not finished. We had to help complete it when we did 'something'.
Click to expand...

Let me talk about simplicity. It is easy to say, you are adding to the cross so that is evil.
The cross is not one thing, it is a vast number of issues and dependencies.

One simple one is the cross is the final atoning sacrifice for sins, which fulfills and completes the
whole role of the temple and animal sacrifices for sin.

Acknowledging this reality through confession of faith, is not adding to the cross, but witnessing
of it. Repenting of ones sins, is admitting the folly and rebellion of sin against God and the need
to walk righteously. But to not do this is to deny the value of the cross and its power.

The cross is a doorway, which enables so much to flow in our lives, so to deny this is to take
away part of what the cross is.

Much of this language is aimed at a "religious" target, which the preachers believe is evil,
and their faith is its enemy.

So I desire to distinguish these ideas, and show what scripture teaches us. That is what it
is to walk in the light and face the darkness that often lies lurking in our midst.
 
PeterJens said:
Let me talk about simplicity. It is easy to say, you are adding to the cross so that is evil.
The cross is not one thing, it is a vast number of issues and dependencies.

One simple one is the cross is the final atoning sacrifice for sins, which fulfills and completes the
whole role of the temple and animal sacrifices for sin.

Acknowledging this reality through confession of faith, is not adding to the cross, but witnessing
of it. Repenting of ones sins, is admitting the folly and rebellion of sin against God and the need
to walk righteously. But to not do this is to deny the value of the cross and its power.

The cross is a doorway, which enables so much to flow in our lives, so to deny this is to take
away part of what the cross is.

Much of this language is aimed at a "religious" target, which the preachers believe is evil,
and their faith is its enemy.

So I desire to distinguish these ideas, and show what scripture teaches us. That is what it
is to walk in the light and face the darkness that often lies lurking in our midst.
Click to expand...

The cross actually saves ppl. It does not make them savable.

Did Christ do enough to save us? YES!!!!!!! Hallelujah and amen!

Soli Deo Gloria
 
SovereignGrace said:
If we add one thing, regardless how small it may be, to the finished work of the cross, then the cross was not finished. We had to help complete it when we did 'something'.
Click to expand...
What's being added? People do need to repent & pick up their cross daily.
 
preacher4truth said:
Hello PJ,

Have you taken notice that everything you say points to you and what you (think) you've done, and is always used to vindicate you and exalt you while you demean others and make false accusations?
Click to expand...

This is a way of thinking and looking at issues which is not helpful.
You attempt to say I am saying lots of things, and then supporting them, so it must be all wrong
because I am saying it. Nope. That is just nonsense dressed up as an idea.

It comes from an ethic that says self is evil, and Christ is good. But this distinction is just
meaningless. Everything we think and do as individuals is only about ourselves, because
we can never get outside the limitations of being an individual. So mixing this with language
and morality is just playing games, and for people who are not very bright.
 
PeterJens said:
This is a key question. Did Christ do enough to save us?
No.

We have to
1. Repent of our sins
2. Believe on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins
3. Follow Jesus
4. Obey Jesus's commands
5. Dwell in Gods word
6. Walk in the Spirit, in communion with God

Now you could add to this list or expand each item.

Some say Christ has done enough, and we need to do nothing but believe.
.
Click to expand...


This one really leaves my scratching my head, Peter . . .

I believe Christ did enough to save us - but unless we respond in faith (because of His grace) that salvation will not happen in our lives. If we do respond in faith - then this faith will be one that follows Christ, and will have works.
 
PeterJens said:
This is a way of thinking and looking at issues which is not helpful.
You attempt to say I am saying lots of things, and then supporting them, so it must be all wrong
because I am saying it. Nope. That is just nonsense dressed up as an idea.

It comes from an ethic that says self is evil, and Christ is good. But this distinction is just
meaningless. Everything we think and do as individuals is only about ourselves, because
we can never get outside the limitations of being an individual. So mixing this with language
and morality is just playing games, and for people who are not very bright.
Click to expand...

[h=2]Did Christ do enough to save us? No.[/h]
You stated this and are amazingly trying to defend this ideology.
 
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