The easy way to spot a false grace message

[InSpiritInTruth]

Why not just say it simply, you teach sinless perfectionism, .....

This is what I teach---->>>>

I have heard so many lies and false doctrine being spread about how ongoing sin will not effect your eternal security in Christ. I am going to prove this idea totally false by the words of Jesus. If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, then you will also believe and continue in His words right? Well here goes….

John 8:31-36 “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

These words of Jesus are so plain and simple a child could understand them, but sinners will still argue against this very plain and simple truth because they themselves are still committing sins and are servants of sin, and thus they will also try to justify themselves and ongoing sin.

Let’s break this down. Jesus said those who commit sin are a servant of sin, and a servant abides not in the house forever. That verse right there crushes this false notion that ongoing sin does not compromise eternal security. The truth is right there in front of your face. A SERVANT OF SIN ABIDES NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER!

People, believing in the Truth according to the words of God has the power to set you free from the bondage of sin. Jesus Christ is the very Word of God, which is Truth and is that Eternal Life. Believe in what Jesus said above, and not the lies and false doctrine of carnally minded men. Believe Jesus when He said you can indeed be made free from the bondage of sin and death.
​

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Are you claiming to be sinless?

Just ask mine accusers, they will tell you what you want to hear.

 

[LaurenTM]

I believe many are in name only calling themselves a Christian, but not truly one by spiritual rebirth and conversion, being enjoined into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. An example would be these who called Jesus Lord, but He did not know them, as they were also still workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."


Luke 13:23-27

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity."

well the thing is, you shall be judged by the same measure you judge others

that would give anyone with actual discernment pause

that is why we are warned

the warning is for you if you judge

 

[Grace777x70]

I have a question to the "sinless perfection in the flesh" doctrine believers. I have asked this question a few times but it is dodged as if their first born child is going to be sacrificed if they answer it truthfully.

None of us is telling people to go and sin all you want just because we are in grace. We have said this at least over 100x times that if we teach grace then the people can have dominion over sin in their lives. Grace teaches us how to live godly in this life.

Answer the question below so that we understand what "living after the flesh" looks like in real life:

Let's look at this sin business for a bit. Malice and slandering others in the body of Christ is just as much a sin as living the homosexual lifestyle. ( Gal. 5 )

These are in the exact same list of "works of the flesh".

So, let's say someone has been slandering other people in the body of Christ for years. All of a sudden they die...does this one that was slandering people now not go to heaven?...in your thinking they would go to hell because they have been "living after the flesh"?

Or what about gluttony which is a sin - what if someone has a battle with overeating all the time and they die - do they go to hell because they were not able to overcome this as this is "living after the flesh" too?

These 2 scenarios above would be people "living in the flesh" and as you call being a servant to sin ( even though they are free in Christ but don't know it yet and haven't gown up in the Lord enough spiritually to overcome them ).

These 2 groups of people in your theology would not be children of God and thus go to hell..is that right?

 

[Magenta]

Just ask mine accusers, they will tell you what you want to hear.

More of your deflections. Scripture is plain on the matter, that if you claim to be without sin, you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you. Some pretend that others preach licentiousness, which is a lie, and others preach sinless perfection, which is also a lie. I know which "side" you are on. You run around preaching the lie of sinless perfection. You are not sinless. This has to be pried out of occasionally so we can see that what you preach hoping to condemn others actually includes you as well.

 

[Grace777x70]

If our "eternal security" is based on not doing the works of the flesh as some try to preach - you would think that the term "things like these" would be qualified because don't you think we should know what "these things are"? - if they are going to throw us into hell?

In Gal 5 - "strife" is one in the list too as well as "things like these". What are those things? If someone doesn't know exactly "what these things like these are" they would go to hell with the interpretation that the list in Gal. 5:19-21 means not going to heaven.

Galatians 5:19-21 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

[SUP]21 [/SUP] envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Inheriting the kingdom of God is not meaning "to go to heaven" in these scriptures. It means to live the quality of life that is in the kingdom now on this earth. The kingdom of God is within us now.

If we live by the flesh we will not receive the benefits that are ours in Christ as sin will distort our view of God, ourselves and others. We need to view Gal 5 in context with the fruit of the Spirit that brings life to us here on this earth.

 

[zone]

The Heresy of Perfectionism

"...The peril of perfectionism is that it seriously distorts the human mind. Imagine the contortions through which we must put ourselves to delude us into thinking that we have in fact achieved a state of sinlessness...."

The Heresy of Perfectionism

 

[Blain]

This is what I preach....

Some folks will tell you that in this life you can never be free from sin, and that you will always sin, and be in sin. But this my friends is not of faith in the good news gospel and power of God in Jesus Christ. That is another gospel, and doctrine of doubt in what the power of God can do you in your life by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus came to save us from our sins, to cleanse us from all iniquity, and to also make us free from sin, and to also give us the power by the grace of God so that sin shall not rule over you, but rather righteousness.

Matthew 1:21 “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1 John 5:17 “All unrighteousness is sin:….” Jesus cleanses us from all sin>>>1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. = 0 sins left after cleansing. And then he empowers us by His Spirit and by Christ working in us (seed of promise) to remain sin free>>>1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” = being “In Christ” and not being “in sin”.

Being made free from sin….

Romans 6:3-7 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Romans 6:18 “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

So don’t doubt the power of God in Christ Jesus, but rather believe. Peace
​

You do realize that is exactly what the sinless doctrine is right? You told me once before that you don't teach or preach the sinless doctrine and so I thought perhaps I was hasty in believing you were of the sinless doctrine but you once again speak of the exact thing. I am not going to lie and say i don't sin in fact I will be honest and say I sin far more than I know I should and believe me I am not proud of it and it irritates me but to say that sin has power over me is incorrect and to also say that it doesn't and that I am able to not sin ever is also incorrect

 

[Blain]

More of your deflections. Scripture is plain on the matter, that if you claim to be without sin, you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you. Some pretend that others preach licentiousness, which is a lie, and others preach sinless perfection, which is also a lie. I know which "side" you are on. You run around preaching the lie of sinless perfection. You are not sinless. This has to be pried out of occasionally so we can see that what you preach hoping to condemn others actually includes you as well.

he won't be straight when he answers because he can't he has himself in a trap here. If he is honest and says yes I teach and believe the sinless doctrine then the scriptures alone accuse him not us but if he also says no I don't then his own words betray him because all his posts while may not directly stating it hint and imply the sinless doctrine and so the only choice is to continue to avoid a straight answer and yet even that doesn't help his cause

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

What we seem to have here is a lack of faith in believing what Jesus said He could in fact do, which is to make you free from sin and from being a servant of sin. I have posted the words of Jesus Christ, but yet I am called a liar for posting and believing in them. Consider many of those who Jesus healed, Jesus would often ask them if they believed He could perform the miracle.

Matthew 9:28-29

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you."

Believing the words of Jesus Christ are also important concerning the faith.

​

 

[notuptome]

Funny how sinless perfection goes right out the window the moment I believe that I have it. I am neither sinless nor perfect the moment I think I am. I am sinless and perfect in Christ but that is a future position not a present reality. Sanctification takes a lifetime and is not without set backs and failures along the way.

God knows all my weaknesses and through His strength patience and love brings me into heaven through His love not my virtues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Blain]

What we seem to have here is a lack of faith in believing what Jesus said He could in fact do, which is to make you free from sin and from being a servant of sin. I have posted the words of Jesus Christ, but yet I am called a liar for posting and believing in them. Consider many of those who Jesus healed, Jesus would often ask them if they believed He could perform the miracle.

Matthew 9:28-29

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you."

Believing the words of Jesus Christ are also important concerning the faith.

​

Even the most wicked of false teachers and prophets quote Christs words that doesn't mean what they preach is valid. It's not a matter of belief that is the issue, no one has ever been able to live a life without sinning at all except Jesus himself even the apostles couldn't after the baptism of the holy spirit.

If you believe yourself to have more faith and belief in God than us because you have convinced yourself you no longer sin then that is between you and God and is not my place to judge however I must warn you that the road your taking in that direction does not lead to a good end

 

[Utah]

What we seem to have here is a lack of faith in believing what Jesus said He could in fact do, which is to make you free from sin and from being a servant of sin. I have posted the words of Jesus Christ, but yet I am called a liar for posting and believing in them. Consider many of those who Jesus healed, Jesus would often ask them if they believed He could perform the miracle.

Matthew 9:28-29

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you."

Believing the words of Jesus Christ are also important concerning the faith.

Please answer the question posed to you in post #9, then again in post #14, then referred to again in post #19.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

More of your deflections. Scripture is plain on the matter, that if you claim to be without sin, you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you.

People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...

1 John 1

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.

So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.

 

[Utah]

Please answer the question from post 9.

 

[Blain]

Please answer the question from post 9.

He can't answer it because if he says no then that proves what we say about him but if he says yes then that proves he is wrong in sinless teaching, honestly I would hate to be in such a situation

 

[dcontroversal]

Yet you still sin. How is that working for you?

HAHHAA toucheeeeeeee.........what he sins....NO WAY....He is so righteous and sinless that Jesus will call him up with Diamond Dave to reference and use as a witness at the day of reward/judgment.......

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Please answer the question posed to you in post #9, then again in post #14, then referred to again in post #19.

I would like to remind you and others that this thread is not about me, or what you think of me, or even about you personally, but it is about what the words of Jesus Christ say is true. If you want to believe that Satan who has the power over sin and death is stronger than Almighty God who created the heavens and the earth and everything that is in them, then that is your choice to doubt the power of God.

But I know by the power of God in Christ and by the testimony of Jesus Christ, that you can indeed be made free from the works of the Devil, if you will only believe. Peace

 

[FreeNChrist]

People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...

1 John 1

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.

So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.

"My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One." 1 John 2:1

 

[Blain]

I would like to remind you and others that this thread is not about me, or what you think of me, or even about you personally, but it is about what the words of Jesus Christ say is true. If you want to believe that Satan who has the power over sin and death is stronger than Almighty God who created the heavens and the earth and everything that is in them, then that is your choice to doubt the power of God.

But I know by the power of God in Christ and by the testimony of Jesus Christ, that you can indeed be made free from the works of the Devil, if you will only believe. Peace

Your right it's not about you but we are to test all spirits are we not? Why is it that you cannot give a clear answer? You are asked if you believe yourself to be sinless and if you teach and believe the sinless doctrine you avoid the question you are asked if you believe him to be a Christian and again avoid the question.

When one constantly dodges such things that means they have something they can't admit