Not By Works

Persuaded · Jan 3, 2017

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

The Scriptures say "much fruit" Talk to God if that's a problem.

So how much is MUCH FRUIT?
Are you satisfied each day that you have produced enough, or do you live in fear of Hell because maybe you did not each ?
How is a person to know?
MUCH is a very vague amount.
Much to you may be very different than much to me.
Surly the Scripture is more definite in what God expects.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 3, 2017

Persuaded said:

like the old saying goes. "How good is good enough"

PeterJens · Jan 3, 2017

PeterJens said:

There is a strange split in scripture between the instant believer and the walk of
cleansing.

Jesus has disciples for 3 years. They form the foundation of the church.
Then we have the thief on the cross who comes to faith before he dies.

Some people Jesus meets are healed and then told not to sin again.
We have parables of gifting and investing. There are passages addressing
the community of believers, and restoration of people in faith.

Then there is counting the cost, and the reality of growth in our lives as
we walk and progress.

What I find fascinating is not the step of first entering the walk, but the walk
itself and its objective. Some seem to think the walk does not matter, or its
final destination. But on the other hand we are saved so we can walk. And
we walk because we are in the Kingdom.

So we should be encouraged that we can walk well and expect full healing
spiritually and good communion with all in the Lord. Now I do not call this
earning my salvation, but walking in the consequences of being saved.
And if one fails to walk in this, then I wonder if you know what a new
creation actually is.

I would also suggest if the walk is too challenging and you attack any mention
of it, do you know what life in Jesus really is? We were saved from the world
to walk in the Spirit by faith, full of grace and truth. Amen.

LaurenTM · Jan 3, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

honestly?

why do you think people are called sheep

sheepies are dumb apparently

PeterJens · Jan 3, 2017

Jesus knows what He is offering us.
He knows how love works. It is like wild fire, once sown it brings forth so much more.
We do not have to worry about the fruit, it comes as a consequence of sowing to love
and the Spirit.

The problem is people are happy with the idea of being saved, being safe individually but
change and growth and freedom, they are very scary things and best avoided.

This unfortunately is not bearing fruit or seeing love break out in ones life.
To be with the Lord is to see these things take place.
Be encouraged, be obedient and He will work everything through.

LaurenTM · Jan 3, 2017

Stephen63 said:

you are too old to pout and so am I

you have given me plenty of gaff...before our truce...so don't go all whaa whaa on me now

poke back...I don't care...I know you have a sense of humor in there somewhere

eternally-gratefull · Jan 3, 2017

PeterJens said:

Yes he does, Maybe one day you will figure it out like the rest of us have (well most of us anyway)

Stephen63 · Jan 3, 2017

Persuaded said:

Treat it like you would a prayer life..... A few minutes each day for the first week, then increase it a little more. If you're always increasing, how could God not be happy with it?

Persuaded · Jan 3, 2017

Stephen63 said:

So you can not answer my questions.
You are ASSUMING God is pleased with the fruit you produced each day with a few minutes effort.
How about following the leadership of the Holy Spirit in everything you think or do 24/7.
That is what God expects of His children, and none of us do that.
I fail God every day.
YOU fail God every day.
To fail God is SIN.
People who sin are sinners.

Here is the question you need to ask your self.
Do I please God with my every thought and deed.
Be honest with yourself.

dcontroversal · Jan 3, 2017

Stephen63 said:

ALL OUR righteousnesses are as filthy rags and our iniquities like the wind have taken us away....You know...When Jesus was on the earth and he had called out the saved, immersed believers that had given fruit meet of repentance (John the Baptist' ministry) and after Jesus had called these believers out and was teaching them as his disciples He said...Why do you call me GOOD....there are NONE GOOD, but God....

So...Jesus was on the planet in the form of sinful flesh and all around him were saved, immersed disciples of Jesus walking after the truth and HE said there WERE NONE GOOD...and EVEN included HIMSELF in that grouping........

That is all I need to know concerning saved men, women and even the lost...while in the flesh there is NONE GOOD and NOT ONE that sins not.........anything beyond that contradicts scripture.....

Notice I did not get mouthy

dcontroversal · Jan 3, 2017

Stephen63 said:

I did not say ALL and even said LINE upon LINE and PRECEPT upon PRECEPT is BEST..................

dcontroversal · Jan 3, 2017

Stephen63 said:

You see the error in your thinking....it is highlighted.....

It is Jesus that bears fruit through us as a living sacrifice........HE is the ROOT.....and that is why fruit/works do not save of keep saved...the work is Jesus' dia the power of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.........

dcontroversal · Jan 3, 2017

Stephen63 said:

You are correct...and will add...those who are deceived and trust in themselves are two fold the child of hell.....!

dcontroversal · Jan 3, 2017

Stephen63 said:

EXACTLY.........and notice what God says and how it is applied....

New Living Translation
We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

English Standard Version
the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

Berean Study Bible
And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction,

Berean Literal Bible
And the righteousness of God is through faith from Jesus Christ toward all those believing. For there is no distinction,

New American Standard Bible
even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

King James Bible
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

dcontroversal · Jan 3, 2017

OneFaith said:

This post is false.....

The Grace of God that brings salvation shines upon ALL MEN.....

and salvation is a free GIFT, not something earned by obeying some law or rule.........

In the grace you are, having been SAVED out of FAITH, and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of GOD not of works lest any man boast...

The word OBEY is found no where in that verse!

dcontroversal · Jan 3, 2017

GandalfTheWhite said:

You got that right brother....the promise is found in Genesis 3:15 and even EVE's language belies that she was looking for the ONE when her 1st son was born........

dcontroversal · Jan 3, 2017

mailmandan said:

AMEN.....EVEN an APPLE tree goes years without bearing and even oak trees take about 15 to 20 years to bear and then bear every other year......note this is after they have been transplanted which means a few years of growth already!

[TABLE="class: pad-md, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Fruit Tree Type[/TD]
[TD="width: 150, align: center"]Years to Fruit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Apple Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]2-5 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Apricot Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]2-5 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Banana Plants[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Cherry Trees (sour)[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]3-5 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Cherry Trees (sweet)[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]4-7 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Citrus Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]1-2 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Fig Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]1-2 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Mulberry Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Nectarine Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]2-4 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Olive Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]2-3 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Pawpaw Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]5-7 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Peach Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]2-4 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Pear Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]4-6 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Persimmon Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]3-4 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]Plum Trees[/TD]
[TD="width: 221, align: center"]3-6 years[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

dcontroversal · Jan 3, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

It is funny.....the bible in one verse and statement of Jesus rebukes this I am good and don't sin fallacy.....

Jesus was on the earth with his SAVED, IMMERSED believers who had given FRUIT MEET of REPENTANCE and being TAUGHT as the disciples of JESUS, and healing, preaching, and following God.....and Jesus said.....

Why callest thou me GOOD...there is NONE GOOD, but GOD...<-------this one verse proves that while in these bodies and even being saved, immersed and following God we are not considered good and without sin!

Grace777x70 · Jan 3, 2017

Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life or outbursts of anger..etc.

We religious people love to "categorize" sin - especially the ones that we have never done before and then look down on those that do have a problem that we don't. We say that they are "sinning" - and they are but so are we in other areas too. We all have the flesh to deal with and none of us behaves perfectly in our behavior.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!

dcontroversal · Jan 3, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

In my view the bottom statement falls way short of accurately describing what Christ has done, what the Heavenly Father has received and done and what the Holy Spirit does on our behalf....we cannot compare salvation, justification, the sealing and sanctification (eternally) in Christ to the following......

Originally Posted by OneFaith

Or again it's like if someone gave you a ten million dollar mansion, handed you the keys and the address, and you had to walk to your car, and drive to the address, and then said, "My walking and driving earned me this mansion." That's rediculous- no amount of walking and driving earned you that free gift. HOWEVER, if you didn't DO what you had to do to get there, you would not get the gift.

God wants to give us the gift of heaven, but we have to go get it. He does not bring it to us, He says to come to Him and He will give.

Not By Works

Persuaded

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eternally-gratefull

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Banned

LaurenTM

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LaurenTM

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eternally-gratefull

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Persuaded

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