The easy way to spot a false grace message

[Stunnedbygrace]

how about no one judge and leave that up to the Lord. he knows all, we do not.

You, Stephen, me and everyone should be able to agree to this!
Then we can talk about how we see it and where we currently are in our understanding and where our own struggles of belief are being fought and listen as others do the same.

Even if we think someone has some errors, we surely can see that we must have some too and not fly to cries of heretic, unsaved, fallen from grace, etc.

To be in some error does not mean unsaved. It just means to be growing and learning.

Wise post gb9.

 

[Stephen63]

Matthew 7:6“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Some people can't be helped for they are doomed by their decisions.

Impossible it is to pull apostates out of the fire.

We are here to make a difference to those in the land of decision, nothing more. We cannot turn around the judgments on those who refuse truth. It's like preaching at an intersection at a cemetery.

I catch myself doing those things to no profit, & have to repent.

It's easy to get sucked in..... you're there before you realize it.

Don't know who this is for, but there it is. May God help you on your journey.

 

[Grace777x70]

The problem with this "sinless perfection in the flesh" doctrine is that it will shipwreck the faith of Christians.

No one is saying the "scriptures" being quoted are wrong - what is happening is the "application" of them is disturbing to Christians.

If someone is battling some sin of the flesh ( as they learn about relying on the grace of God to overcome this manifestation of the flesh ) - they will be condemned by the "implication" of the wrong application of those scriptures. .

When people quote scripture that says "If you sin then you are a child of the devil"..and "He that is born of God cannot sin.." - without explaining the proper "application" of those scriptures - this will discourage those that are learning how to depend on the grace of God for their Christian life.

That is the "real reason" why people ask the OP if he still sins from time to time - to expose how this doctrine that he is trying to condemn others with for what it truly is. This is NOT to condemn him but to help us grow in the Lord.

If he was honest with us - then we would be able to have a civil - real discussion of the "application" of those scriptures being referenced. That way we could grow together.

Personally I believe it is impossible for the new creation in Christ to sin. The inner man in Christ who is joined as one spirit with the Lord cannot sin. Paul says it is the "deeds of the body" that manifests the sinning. Rom. 8:13. We give in to the lusts of the flesh which still has the law of sin in it and it manifests as "deeds or works of the flesh".

This is why it is so important to learn how to walk according to the spirit within us and then we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

This is the reason why people ask of the OP - if he still sins from time to time - so that we can learn to have a proper "application" of scripture so that we can grow together - instead of condemning others in the body of Christ.

A little honesty will go a long way.

 

[PeterJens]

And the people who liked your post follow your evil slanderous ways.

My friend, I call you a friend because I feel I now know you.
We have passed notes for years now. I found you calling me a liar and unsaved odd at first.
OSAS in part I follow, in part I disagree with.
My walk, empowered by Christ, I glory in, for He shines a light unto my feet.

Purity, I have not fully understood, Holiness, a language I am not familiar with, walking righteously,
I know in part but wonder can I grasp this.

Discovery, following, learning, working things out, setting my time, heart and energy to run and follow.

Now all this you appear to call evil, and of self, trying to add to the work of Christ, and a statement
of disbelief that Christ has done enough.

It is like your single theme, the only view you have, locked and loaded, ready to blast me away.

But friend, I know my Lord and His word, I know Peter and listen to him. How is it I am called,
empowered and guided to follow and walk, yet you call this evil and unbelief.

Surely these are the words of the enemy, for only he would oppose following the words of Christ.
So I invite you to repent, to bend the knee in obedience to Christ and let us follow as brothers.

Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.
1 Peter 1:22

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Matthew 7:6“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Some people can't be helped for they are doomed by their decisions.

Impossible it is to pull apostates out of the fire.

We are here to make a difference to those in the land of decision, nothing more. We cannot turn around the judgments on those who refuse truth. It's like preaching at an intersection at a cemetery.

I catch myself doing those things to no profit, & have to repent.

It's easy to get sucked in..... you're there before you realize it.

Don't know who this is for, but there it is. May God help you on your journey.

Something you've said here is a thing I've struggled with a lot.
It's where you said: some people are doomed by their decisions.
Here is the push and pull in my mind with it:
I would still be where I was unless He showed me His Son, gave me the gift of faith, kept me at all times, and a lot more.
So I am bothered by the thought that I made a good decision to believe and others are making a bad decision to not believe, because unless He had healed my blindness and gave me faith, I would still be one of those making a bad decision because I couldn't make any other decision. A man born blind can't just choose to see. He has to be healed of his blindness before he can see.

So I am bothered by the thought that I made a good decision and that man made a bad one so I'm going to heaven and he's going to hell, as if I had anything to do with being healed of my blindness. Something doesn't rest easily in my mind about it all. So there, you entered my crazy mind.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Going to eat some breakfast. You guys make me think too hard and I need some gas! I'll be back.

 

[preacher4truth]

She was responding to your post that insinuated those you didn't agree with were Pharisees, very busy praying: thank you that I am not like these others." So you DID use scripture, but you were making your own accusation, just as you claim others "not on your side" were doing.

Yep, I made an observation, and it was fitting. When others imply only others are sinners, and that they are not, what Scripture can we use to show the error of such thinking? I know of a perfect passage that deals with that subject. If I were doing the same I'd appreciate a biblical perspective.

Do you see what I mean? You say you were being shamed as not being a Christian (and it's good that you forgive them as you say you do!) but then you were saying others were Pharisees, which is also insinuating someone to not be a Christian.
So it is flying both ways, from both sides. Both sides could grow in humility and meekness - that includes all of us, no matter which "side" we choose to play whack-a-mole from.

Yes, shamed by the sinless perfection group, then the other person chimed in to do the same thing, and I offered my defense. My usage of Luke 18:11ff was not to state anyone is lost, and did not insinuate that as that is not my practice, but you're accusing me here of just that. Sorry, but that wasn't my intention, I made a behavioral observation. FTR I don't go calling or implying others are lost, that's the job of the sinless perfection camp, perhaps others, not me, so please don't try to lump me into that.

God is not pleased with a defense of "he hit me first" or "but everyone is doing it!"

No one has done this here.

Just like our own parents, He says, but you are MY child, and I say don't do it. Do not answer a slap with a slap, a revile with a revile, or a lack of love, meekness and humility with your own lack of love, meekness or humility.

There was no slap for a slap, or reciprocation for reviling, or a lack of love in my response. I answered biblically and made an observation. Pointing out someones error isn't lacking in love, anymore than your attempt to point out mine.

 

[Utah]

Preacher, not to intrude on this post, but you have been a member here for 6 days, and you feel like you can judge people you have not met, barely communicated with, and maybe read only a few of their posts? A certainly no history with, unless in fact, you are a returning member, who decided to come back to jump on the bashing bandwagon?

I think you need to stand back and maybe post from the Bible, before you start making people into Pharisees here, for posting Bible verses in the BIBLE Discussion Forum.

That applies to the rest of you!

There are a few people posting Scriptures, and a LOT of people calling others down. I'm not getting involved in the discussion, but this thread truly shows "pack" mentality, as Peter posted, when a newbie comes on and jumps right in condemning people he does not even know, because those people seem in the majority.

That is what the prohibition on hypergrace was about. About NOT being slanderous and mean to one another. The response in this thread is rather shocking, and an embarrassment. I cannot believe some of you would dare to call yourselves Christians! You revile and you disgrace yourselves! You show no evidence of "turning the other check" - 777x77 times! Well, except maybe ISIT, whom I have not seen calling anyone names. Just posting Scriptures. If you don't agree with his verses, because they are out of context, or mistranslated in KJV English, for example, then please counter them. If not, then show the love of God, and show that according to Paul in 1 Cor. 13, love is the most important quality that will remain.

"Now these three remain:
faith, hope, and love.
But the greatest of these is love." 1 Cor. 13:13

If you don't agree with ISIT, and you have no Biblical considerations to add, then proper decorum would dictate you leave the thread. It will quickly drop to page 2 and out of sight, if all the naysayers walked away!

Rant over!

PS. I did not come here to defend ISIT or anyone else. But after reading a few pages, I just felt a little bit of godly rebuke was in order. Sorry if that comes across as unforgiving. I do forgive people for their rude comments and behaviour, but I would prefer this behaviour did not continue.

When it comes to godly rebuking, you zigged when you should have zagged. The title of this thread speaks volumes to the Pharisaic heart that started this thread. People can post Scripture all day long but that doesn't make them correct or righteous, and you know that. Posting pictures of hitler in a mocking manner and calling people people simple minded, of course while being a member of his own self righteous pack, speaks volumes.

You want Scripture? Everyone who is in Christ is new creation; nothing can seperate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus; why call me good -- no one is good but God; my grace is sufficient, and of course, for God so loved the world... These verses all rebuke perfectionism and defend our standing in God's saving grace. These stupid threads should be ignored but there is also the need to defend the Word. Jesus wasn't singing kum ba ya when turning over the tables, and in the same manner, some folks get passionate when going up against deceptive, self righteous liars. May God always be glorified by a thankful heart that understands the need for God's saving grace, and rejoices in it. Praise Jesus!

 

[PeterJens]

The problem with this "sinless perfection in the flesh" doctrine is that it will shipwreck the faith of Christians.

Personally I believe it is impossible for the new creation in Christ to sin.

The above demonstrates the dishonesty of a double minded man.

A dualistic theology allows for these absurdities, we are perfect yet sinners, because our spirits
have a perfect walk with Christ while our bodies stay lost in sin.

One cannot have a sensible discussion to any degree with people who think and believe like this
because it is insane and mentally ill.

It is about disassociating yourself from parts of your behaviour that you do not accept.
It is not the walk Christ called us to, but something the Lord called us to be healed from.

It is true hypocracy, and living a contradiction.

The sufferer is convinced they are holy, redeemed, fulfilling the promises of God while
at the same time sinning and rebelling against His word.

Unfortunately many serial killers have exactly the same mentality, because morality
disappears when the Dr Jekel can no longer influence the Mr Hyde within.

Jesus never walked or lived like this, so it is odd that walking in His footsteps would
mean this kind of behaviour.

 

[Crustyone]

No need to put the preacher down for his quick judgment, although judgement may be the wrong word, maybe assessment would be better. Most all, make assessments of others in physical meetings and act accordingly. Here we only have writings and I have been guilty of not being able to express my exact meaning in my posts. Could it be that he took some posts wrong? Each post needs to be assessed with other postings, but all of the posts in one thread form one individual should be following the same line of thought, unless a light bulb goes on and a change of heart ensues. As far as judgements, we are to judge our fellow Christians, and correct them, those not in authority in private, but the elders in public. Are we all elders here? Not sure all of this should be done before everyone.

 

[preacher4truth]

The above demonstrates the dishonesty of a double minded man.

A dualistic theology allows for these absurdities, we are perfect yet sinners, because our spirits
have a perfect walk with Christ while our bodies stay lost in sin.

One cannot have a sensible discussion to any degree with people who think and believe like this
because it is insane and mentally ill.

It is about disassociating yourself from parts of your behaviour that you do not accept.
It is not the walk Christ called us to, but something the Lord called us to be healed from.

It is true hypocracy, and living a contradiction.

The sufferer is convinced they are holy, redeemed, fulfilling the promises of God while
at the same time sinning and rebelling against His word.

Unfortunately many serial killers have exactly the same mentality, because morality
disappears when the Dr Jekel can no longer influence the Mr Hyde within.

Jesus never walked or lived like this, so it is odd that walking in His footsteps would
mean this kind of behaviour.

Wow, really? Lying, mentally ill, double-minded, serial killers have the same mentality?????

 

[gb9]

The above demonstrates the dishonesty of a double minded man.

A dualistic theology allows for these absurdities, we are perfect yet sinners, because our spirits
have a perfect walk with Christ while our bodies stay lost in sin.

One cannot have a sensible discussion to any degree with people who think and believe like this
because it is insane and mentally ill.

It is about disassociating yourself from parts of your behaviour that you do not accept.
It is not the walk Christ called us to, but something the Lord called us to be healed from.

It is true hypocracy, and living a contradiction.

The sufferer is convinced they are holy, redeemed, fulfilling the promises of God while
at the same time sinning and rebelling against His word.

Unfortunately many serial killers have exactly the same mentality, because morality
disappears when the Dr Jekel can no longer influence the Mr Hyde within.

Jesus never walked or lived like this, so it is odd that walking in His footsteps would
mean this kind of behaviour.

observe paragraph 4 and then keep in mind that the person writing this does NOT use the Biblical definition of sin, which is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.
so, when he talks about " freedom from sin ", it Is not by Biblical standards.

 

[Grace777x70]

When we die - our flesh will not go to be with the Lord. Understanding the circumcision of Christ ( Col. 2:11) is vital to knowing that we are sealed with the Holy Sprit in our inner man in Christ. Knowing that the inner man of the heart - the new creation has been cut away from the flesh is paramount in growing up in the Lord.

To our natural humanistic minds - this truth of the new creation is all foolishness to us.

Romans 8:10-13 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yetthe spirit is alive because of righteousness.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

[SUP]12 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—

[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Take up shooting heroin in your arms and you will see this "death" that Paul talks about. Keep eating ourselves to an obese size and we too will see this "death" manifested.

That is why it is so vital to learn to walk by the spirit - our real person that is in Christ and not give in to the lusts of the flesh to fulfill "it's" desires.
Romans chapter 7:14-23 shows the influence of the law of sin in our flesh which is against the inner man in Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

don;t forget, pounding their chests in pride

This statement is sad. Everyone here talking about what righteousness is and desiring to
know the presence of God in their lives is very aware they are sinners saved by grace.

If anything we condemn and write ourselves off too much, and do not see the strengths and
blessings God takes delight in and encourages in our lives.

Every move of God is about seeing our sin, repenting deeply of it, and rising to a glorious blessing
of love and sharing in the Lord through the cross.

Until our hearts see both how far we fall short and also how in the Spirit we can walk in His ways
do the sparks begin to fly. We are Gods chosen people, washed, purified, called Holy and redeemed.
None of us can presume to partake, but have equally been called, so let us walk in and partake of
the wedding feast to which we have been invited.

 

[Grace777x70]

Wow, really? Lying, mentally ill, double-minded, serial killers have the same mentality?????

LOL....he has been doing this for over a year. I have him on ignore because of this behavior.

Unfortunately he has continually insulted others from the start without changing his behavior.

This type of a mindset works like this:

They re-formulate what is said in their minds and come up with a completely different thing then what is said. They then attack the other person with this "re-formulated" thought as if it is real along with the accompanying insults.

Someone says:

"What a beautiful blue sky the Lord gave us today."

This mindset responds back with this type of behavior:

"What?...the sky is not green. Everyone knows the sky is blue. You are a false teacher and a heretic - double-minded, insane, mentally ill....serial killers think like you....etc"

With this type of thinking it is impossible to have any sort of a discussion and it is best to just ignore them as this only causes division and strife. Now when they change their behavior - then we can welcome them back but until then - it is defiling to interact with these types that exhibit foul behavior like this.

Unfortunately we have to implement Romans 16:17 until we see a change.

 

[PeterJens]

Wow, really? Lying, mentally ill, double-minded, serial killers have the same mentality?????

Everyone believes where they are is ok, they are alright, there are no issues how
they work inside, we are all the same.

You have demonstrated you are unaware both of how serial killers justify their
behaviour to themselves, and how to a much lesser degree we do the same.

The problem is what we do with desires that spring up in our daily lives.
If we suppress them and ignore they exist, we are going down the road of dualist
behaviour.

If we acknowledge our responses and know how to balance it out, accepting who
we are and our position, we are walking in a healthy way.

Unfortunately many live in complete ignorance of this is everyones experience, but
not everyones reaction.

Now ones theology tends to follow ones emotional strategy. So a dualist theology
fits a dualist approach.

The question you as readers need to ask is do I have a dualist emotional approach
to life or not? If you do, you know why your theology goes the way it does.
Unfortunately theology should not follow your emotional approach, but help you
change how you deal with life with Christ.

 

[LaurenTM]

Wow, really? Lying, mentally ill, double-minded, serial killers have the same mentality?????

haha


don't engage...you will thank us for that later

you are fresh meat....you don't want to have to start pulling out the arrows....

 

[PeterJens]

LOL....he has been doing this for over a year.

G7 - The sad truth is, I am right and you are wrong.

The demonstration of this is you do not address the point being made.
Yes you can interpret and invent a dualist view of God, but it is an invention.

But if you live a dualist way of life, you will never see it, or even want to see it.
I say this as a warning to those who are deceived into this emotional whirlwind of slander
and insult, thinking people are evil and following satan to stand up for simple morality and
righteous behaviour.

Schizophrenics and psychotics will invent reasons to say people are a massive threat, evil,
a foul stench, terrible, when it is just their own paranoia and internal turmoil.

G7 is no different. To him the real evil in the world is people who believe in morality, the
legalists, who need to be exposed and excluded from the church. So I am the worst of all, lol.

Now it is sinners who steal, cheat, lie, murder, rape, abuse, live immoral lives in fornication
and adultery who destroy life and bring evil into the world. They are the enemy, G7 is merely
deluded.

 

[LaurenTM]

 

[PeterJens]

haha
don't engage...you will thank us for that later
you are fresh meat....you don't want to have to start pulling out the arrows....

Lauren - I am sorry you got so upset in the past. You have a lot of wounds, which I
was not aware of, I pray you have found healing in Christ for them.

I need to grow in grace and understanding. One thing I had hoped your psychology training
had taught you we are all on a spectrum from ok, handling things well, to off the charts.

I believe Christ calls us to walk with an open heart, healed, whole and loving.

Unfortunately loving also comes with principles attached, one of which is standing up for
righteous behaviour and condemning sin. God is pretty good at doing this.

So I encourage you sister, to gird up your loins, to walk in the victory Christ has brought us
and defend His gospel. The dualist view of life is not of God or healthy or something we want
to be regarded as Christs example.

Or are you ok that such a group should dominate and desire to crush, bully and expel all others?