The easy way to spot a false grace message

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eternally-gratefull

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These are not my words. Your whole construct is a projection.
We are called to be Holy, live in reverent fear, live for righteousness and be done with sin.

Peter that is what you preach. If your not going to stand up and back your preaching with words. Then why bother?


So lets put it to the test.

DO you deny that you teach that our eternal life is based on how well we walk in righteousness, Or is the cross sufficient for salvation? (remember, we have you all over CC so we can prove it so you better be truthful)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG do you not know this is all your own theological interpretation.
Please show me in the law of God where I have sinned?
Exodus 20:16
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Deuteronomy 5:20
‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Proverbs 25:18
A man who bears false witness against his neighbor Is like a club, a sword, and a sharp arrow.

According to Peter.

EG is against people who want to walk in righteousness (that is a lie)
EG want to sin all he wants (that is a lie)
EG is against people who want to follow Gods commands (That is a lie)

I have said 3 lies you have slandered or bore false witness against me, and i am sure I can come up wiht more, (And I am sure quite a few people here can be my witness. and according to the law. Just 2 or three witnesses is all I need)

SO do you really want to go their Peter. Or repent, Confess. and start changing your ways, and stop breaking the law?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You behave in 100% a predictable way with the same theological arguments and failures.
If I do not know you, how are you so obviously flawed and empty?

If you knew me, You would tell everyone WHAT I BELIEVE, and HOW I BELIEVE, and WHAT I AM AGAINST.

You have yet to do either of these three things, So how can you know me,

Your answer alone shows you have no desire to get to know me, You think you already do. THATS YOUR ERROR.. YOU THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, but your WRONG (at least about us, not even talking about doctrine here)
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Yep no attack here, And you and your PACK are not innocent!

How long is CC going to allow this crap to continue it is nt enough many GOOD people left.. I guess you just want to make all of CC a modern day pharisee group? Attacking anyone who loves Grace?
I LOVE grace.....I just don't like that stuff you're spreading.:)
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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Here is a post I made on this subject of being made by our Creator, as we are His workmanship......

It is written in Ephesians 2:10 “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

Here is a simple concept and easy to understand; we did not create or give birth to ourselves the first time, so when we are born again and made a new creature in Christ; this is also done by the works of our Creator.


The Lord told Jeremiah in Jeremiah 18:1-6 “The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,[SUP]2 [/SUP]Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,[SUP]6 [/SUP]O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.”

Paul expounds on this idea of the Potter having power over the clay here in Romans 9:18-24 “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?[SUP]20 [/SUP]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[SUP]22 [/SUP]What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:[SUP]23 [/SUP]And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,[SUP] 24 [/SUP]Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”

So Paul is showing this same concept that we are God’s workmanship afore prepared and ordained unto glory. This idea is also shown in our first man Adam, and in our new man in Christ. Notice in both instances they are made to be the way they are. Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”


Now some who are without understanding try to prop up the false notion that we who speak out against sin and for doing righteousness are preaching “self-righteousness.” But how can this be if we who are born of God also proclaim this truth that we are made free from sin and made righteous by our Maker?


This being made free from sin was foretold to us by Jesus in John 8:32 “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:36 “If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

Also confirmed by Paul here in Romans 6:18 “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”

Romans 6:22 “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”

So did we make ourselves free from sin? Of Course not, just as we are also made by our Maker to be made righteous as shown in Romans 5:19, and here….2 Corinthians 5:21 “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”


1 Corinthians 1:30
“But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:”


When you understand that a man can receive nothing except it be given to him from heaven, and that every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, then you can also understand there is no room for boasting on our part. All the glory, praise and honor belongs to our Maker.


Hebrews 13:20-21
“Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.”


1 Peter 5:10
-11 “But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”
I love this last verse you gave! It was the verse I wanted so bad to remember but couldn't earlier, to give Blain renewed hope and strength to wait, when he said he wishes he could stop sinning but that his tongue is his downfall so often.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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hmm, Wonder if Stephen saw this?

If you agree you are a sinner saved by grace peter. then why do you teach the cross is not enough, and we have to work to EARN salvation?


That is not saved by grace, that is saved by works (earning a wage or reward) Salvation being the reward.
Let me give it to you from the horse's mouth. If someone told me PJ said something without telling me what it was, & then tells me you said something also without telling me what it was, & then asked me "which one lied?" I would say without reservation, "EG". Because of your bad rep, your name is MUDD.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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I would add the following, demonstrating that we who are in Christ still have sinful natures and though we are continually being transformed into His image, we are still sinners .....



If we no longer sin after we come to Christ, then there would be no sins to confess to one another. Claiming that we have no sin is a sin.
Again, I did not say it was not possible to sin, of course by scripture we know this is possible. Two other points I want to make, you said though we are in Christ we still have a sin nature, I disagree. When we are born again of the Spirit we no longer have the nature of the earthy= fleshy nature in Adam= a sin nature. When we are born again of the Spirit we are given new hearts and minds, we become new creatures with all the old things passing away. We are then given the Divine nature of Christ.

This is shown here....

2 Peter 1:1-4

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."


Now to the second part I disagree with, and that is the notion that when you are "in Christ" you are still "in sin." We are told in scripture we can die in our sins vs. not dying in our sins. The scriptures also say that "in Christ" there is "no sin", and whosoever abides in Him does not sin. So sin has no place in Christ not even yours, just as you cannot abide in darkness and also abide in Christ because there is no darkness in Him.

1 John 1: 6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


1 John 3:5 “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.”
1 John 3:6 “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”


When you are "in sin" you are also "in Death", but when you are "in Christ" you are "in Life", so you cannot be "in sin" and "in Christ" at the same time. Here are some scriptures that show how you can die in sin, and how when you were "in sin" you were dead "in your trespasses"

Ezekiel 3:20 “Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.”

Ezekiel 18:24
“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”


John 8:21
“Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

John 8:24 “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.


1 Corinthians 15:17
“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.”


Ephesians 2:1
“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;”


Ephesians 2:5
“Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)”


Colossians 2:11-13 “
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
 
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Aug 15, 2009
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How can you LOVE grace when you DENY IT?
That's what I mean.... I say "I love grace", & EG says "no you don't"

You could smack him up side the head with $20 worth of pennies, & STILL not get a good 2 cents outta him.:rolleyes:
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
He loves grace, but insofar as it does not violate his precious personal agency to do "good" ;)
so he loves HIS interpretation of grace, Not what Grace actually is..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
That's what I mean.... I say "I love grace", & EG says "no you don't"

You could smack him up side the head with $20 worth of pennies, & STILL not get a good 2 cents outta him.:rolleyes:
When you preach grace, Come talk to me. Until then, All you have is hot air..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Let me give it to you from the horse's mouth. If someone told me PJ said something without telling me what it was, & then tells me you said something also without telling me what it was, & then asked me "which one lied?" I would say without reservation, "EG". Because of your bad rep, your name is MUDD.
Thats ok, You fail to confront peter when he sins, But have NO PROBLEM at all judging the sin of others.

This shows your about as honest as judas was
, Would you kiss Jesus on the cheek also?

 
Feb 24, 2015
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Peter that is what you preach. If your not going to stand up and back your preaching with words. Then why bother?

So lets put it to the test.
DO you deny that you teach that our eternal life is based on how well we walk in righteousness, Or is the cross sufficient for salvation? (remember, we have you all over CC so we can prove it so you better be truthful)
We are called to be Holy, live in reverent fear, live for righteousness and be done with sin.

EG - I know you want to project an interpretation on to me which is not mine,but it does
not help your cause.

Gods word calls us to follow these things. I am amazed you want to say in effect ignore
these things because I claim PeterJens puts the wrong implications on them.

Firstly I do not put the implications you are saying on them
Secondly We are called to live them
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I love this last verse you gave! It was the verse I wanted so bad to remember but couldn't earlier, to give Blain renewed hope and strength to wait, when he said he wishes he could stop sinning but that his tongue is his downfall so often.
That last verse is our hope. We are eternally secure in Christ (to bad ISIT does not think so.)

I have found when we get one sin taken care of, we find another one that we must now look at. It is an ingoing process.. Because most of our sins are sins of ommision or mental attitude sins of self. Like not serving a neighbor. because we are too busy (although most would not call that a sin, It is)
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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How many Gospels are there?

I ask, because it is not two extremes, There are two gospels..

Are both groups going to make it to heaven based on their way? I thought sure paul said there is but one gospel. and if ANYONE teach a different one period. They are to be anathema'd.

So which one should we follow? And which group should we watn because they are headed to hell?
I think if anyone wants to talk about the amazing promises of what God will make us and our struggles as "we are putting to death" by the Spirit, you just assume they are talking about trying to earn saving when they are only talking about the narrow road they have been walking and its difficulties as the struggle between the Spirit and the flesh go on.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
We are called to be Holy, live in reverent fear, live for righteousness and be done with sin.

EG - I know you want to project an interpretation on to me which is not mine,but it does
not help your cause.

Gods word calls us to follow these things. I am amazed you want to say in effect ignore
these things because I claim PeterJens puts the wrong implications on them.

Firstly I do not put the implications you are saying on them
Secondly We are called to live them
Yes Peter. We have been called to live on them.

I teach this, And so does everyone else who you have been attacking for months now (that is part of your slander)

We do them peter BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED, We do them out of GRATITUDE for what God has given us, We do them BEcAUSE WE LEARN our lives go BETTER when we do them (we are blessed) We do them BECAUSE we have been empowered by God to do them, We Do them because we have been BORN OF GOD, We do them because we have learned to LOVE OTHERS, because GOD FIRST LOVED US.

thats why we will never lose salvation peter. Because we are saved by FAITH IN GOD, and in THIS LIVIN FAITH< we are given power to do all those things

John said a man born of God can not sin peter. Why do you preach a man of God CAN LIVE IN SIN? Why do you preach a MAN OF GOD can stop being a man of GOD peter?

You need to be honest, and stop saying you preach what you do not.

NO ONE IS CALLING YOU EVIL BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE RIGHTEOUS PETER. NO ONE.
 

jerry2465

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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Hi Jerry, and welcome to the forums. These battles have been ongoing ever since I have been here and I do not suppose they will stop until the Lord returns and separates the wheat from the tares and finally brings peace. But here is a word of advice, don't believe everything you hear from others about others in the forums, because there are many here who will try to misrepresent others views on what they really believe.

Prove each spirit on what they actually say and not based on what others have said about them. It is easy to get caught up in the mob mentality and go with the pressure of the group, but the mob is not always right.

This place often reminds me of when Paul was in Iconium and many of the unbelieving Jews stirred up the people as shown here in Acts....

Acts 14

14 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren."

And we know after this the people then turned on Paul and some desired to stone him, so he fled to another town where the same happened again, the unbelievers persuaded the people there, and they did end up stoning Paul.

So just beware, and make sure you are not so easily persuaded by the mob mentality. Peace. :)
I would no way be swayed by popular opinion, I simply say what I think and try and support my thoughts by scripture. People in Noah's day thought he was crazy for building a giant boat when there had never been rain, but he did as he was told (against the rest of the world) and was saved, we must stand alone if necessary and obey.
 
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