Women Pastors? Help me.

[StanJ]

You know I would listen to you if you had a valid argument but you don't. All translations agree that a deacon can only be a MAN.... this is a given, it's not even dabatable. Any bible that says Phebe is a deacon contradicts itself. Is it really so hard to understand why I would believe the NONCONTRADICTORY KJV over those WRONG bibles?

I doubt very much you would because you can't. That's what happens with inculcated people, they can't listen to reason. Reason when out the window when you accepted KJVO.
The Greek says what it says and both words are used as deacon in both verses. The fact that you refuse to understand or accept this and see the proper context of the scripture doesn't make other versions wrong it makes you inculcated or brainwashed. Even the Lexicon that you quoted from shows it is technically used as Deacon and yet you refuse to accept that so obviously if you're not going to accept the very lexical tools you're using then you're not going to accept what anybody says and that is the true definition of a brainwashed individual. Read the links I posted and I'll pray that God delivers you from this delusion and lie that has you bound.

 

[KJV1611]

God intended what it says in Greek which properly interpreted based on the context of Romans 16:1 is deacon. Of course you don't understand biblical hermeneutics so I can't really explain it to you. Anybody who is not inculcated and has a lick of sense would understand this but because you've been brainwashed by the KJVO cult, you can't.

KJV Only Cult | KING JAMES ONLY | God's ONLY BIBLE

King James Onlyism - What Is A Cult?

https://ivarfjeld.com/2011/03/16/king-james-only-a-dangerous-sect-of-false-christians/

https://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2013/06/24/leaving-king-james-onlyism/

I know a little bit about hermeneutics, explain it to me.

 

[KJV1611]

I doubt very much you would because you can't. That's what happens with inculcated people, they can't listen to reason. Reason when out the window when you accepted KJVO.
The Greek says what it says and both words are used as deacon in both verses. The fact that you refuse to understand or accept this and see the proper context of the scripture doesn't make other versions wrong it makes you inculcated or brainwashed. Even the Lexicon that you quoted from shows it is technically used as Deacon and yet you refuse to accept that so obviously if you're not going to accept the very lexical tools you're using then you're not going to accept what anybody says and that is the true definition of a brainwashed individual. Read the links I posted and I'll pray that God delivers you from this delusion and lie that has you bound.

Ok, here we have the same Greek word servants used for servants. Why is this not deacons?

[TABLE="class: cms_table_bibleTable, width: 100%"]
[TR="class: cms_table_bVerse"]
[TD="bgcolor: #F8F8DA"]Jhn 2:5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F8F8DA"]His mother saith unto the servants, G1249 Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[hornetguy]

That may be your experience but not every church had more than one Elder back then and even today.

again.... where is the scriptural reference to a local assembly that had only ONE elder/pastor/overseer....

The scriptures I have read that reference this always mention elders (plural)

 

[KJV1611]

γυνήgynḗ, goo-nay'; probably from the base of G1096; a woman; specially, a wife:—wife, woman.

Who besides God knows if G1096 should be translated as woman or wife? I noticed the NASB footnoted that they don't know, as it could be the deacon's wife or it could be a deaconess but they put WOMAN in there to make it look like a woman could be a deaconess... very slick! So again I ask the question who KNOWS which word God intended in that verse?

1 Timothy 3:11New American Standard Bible (NASB)
11 [a]Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.


1 Timothy 3:11King James Version (KJV)
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

 

[trofimus]

γυνήgynḗ, goo-nay'; probably from the base of G1096; a woman; specially, a wife:—wife, woman.

Who besides God knows if G1096 should be translated as woman or wife? I noticed the NASB footnoted that they don't know, as it could be the deacon's wife or it could be a deaconess but they put WOMAN in there to make it look like a woman could be a deaconess... very slick! So again I ask the question who KNOWS which word God intended in that verse?

1 Timothy 3:11New American Standard Bible (NASB)
[FONT=&]11 [a]Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.

[/FONT]
1 Timothy 3:11King James Version (KJV)
[FONT=&]11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.[/FONT]

NASB chose one meaning as KJV chose another one. NASB said to the reader that the other one is possible too. KJV is silent so reader does not have idea.

NASB wins

 

[John146]

NASB chose one meaning as KJV chose another one. NASB said to the reader that the other one is possible too. KJV is silent so reader does not have idea.

NASB wins

So the NASB reader is left in doubt. Whenever there is a footnote, that leads the reader that the words they are reading cannot be trusted. And then reader becomes the final authority as he/she chooses which one they like best.

 

[KJV1611]

NASB chose one meaning as KJV chose another one. NASB said to the reader that the other one is possible too. KJV is silent so reader does not have idea.

NASB wins

Or did they?

The footnote leads the reader to believe it could be a deaconess..... Is deaconess truly a possibility based on the rest of scripture?

1 Timothy 3:11New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 [a]Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
Footnotes:

1. 1 Timothy 3:11 I.e. either deacons’ wives or deaconesses

 

[trofimus]

So the NASB reader is left in doubt. Whenever there is a footnote, that leads the reader that the words they are reading cannot be trusted. And then reader becomes the final authority as he/she chooses which one they like best.

More information sometimes produces doubt. If we will not learn anything, we will also not doubt anything.

We have for example 4 gospels. Doubts?

 

[trofimus]

Or did they?

The footnote leads the reader to believe it could be a deaconess..... Is deaconess truly a possibility based on the rest of scripture?

1 Timothy 3:11New American Standard Bible (NASB)

[FONT=&]11 [a]Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Footnotes:

1. 1 Timothy 3:11 I.e. either deacons’ wives or deaconesses

[/FONT]

Oh, OK, I thought the footnote says its either women generally or wives of deacons.

But I got the idea what the translators think. That Paul can be talking about the female deacons in this verse

 

[Sunset2]

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[samuel23]

Stan, context is what defines something, the man who called Phoebe a servant also said that a woman could not have authority over a man in the church. So when you put both those scriptures together we should be able to discern that Paul meant that Phoebe was actually a "servant" and not someone who had authority over men in the church.

 

[HisHolly]

What about Deb the judge in the OT?

Stan, context is what defines something, the man who called Phoebe a servant also said that a woman could not have authority over a man in the church. So when you put both those scriptures together we should be able to discern that Paul meant that Phoebe was actually a "servant" and not someone who had authority over men in the church.

 

[jerry2465]

from what I can see diakonos can have a few meanings, so technically all translations are probably accurate (I know I'm not qualified to teach a translator how to do his job). The word can mean "minister" or it can mean "servant" or it can simply mean a "runner" , someone who would do general tasks in the church, which to me fits scripture exactly. In my understanding (incomplete understanding, because I'm not God) I see the use of diakonos in Romans 16 as a "worker" in the church (Phoebe in this case) and probably someone who is a helper to Paul, helping him with general tasks in the church.

1249 diákonos (from 1223 /diá, "thoroughly" and konis, "dust") – properly, "thoroughly raise up dust by moving in a hurry, and so to minister" (WP, 1, 162); ministry (sacred service).
1249 /diákonos ("ministry") in the NT usually refers to the Lord inspiring His servants to carry out His plan for His people – i.e. as His "minister" (like a deacon serving Him in a local church).
[A. T. Robertson, "1249 (diákonos) properly means 'to kick up dust,' as one running an errand." 1249 (diákonos) is the root of the English terms, "diaconate, deacon."
This root (diakon-) is "probably connected with the verb diōkō, 'to hasten after, pursue' (perhaps originally said of a runner)" (Vine, Unger, White, NT, 147).]

 

[samuel23]

Hornetguy, If you are trying to say that the example of a church in the NT did not have one person over the assembly but rather a group of elders...then you are correct. Paul ordained elders in every church he established. People use Timothy as an example of a single pastor being over the church, however that is not really an example of a pastor being over a church because Timothy was the personal representative for Paul. Paul was imprisoned and he knew that Timothy would do exactly what he would do, so he personally placed Timothy in that position. It is apparent that James was a prominent person in the Jerusalem church, however they had elders and when they chose the 7 deacons the entire church had an impute.

 

[notuptome]

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

You are attempting to proof text this verse and to do so you must completely disregard context.

All souls are saved by grace. This applies to men, women, Jews, Gentiles, slaves and free men. This verse does not negate gender, social status or ethnicity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[StanJ]

I know a little bit about hermeneutics, explain it to me.

Read the links.

 

[hornetguy]

What about Deb the judge in the OT?

That actually has no bearing on this discussion about women and their role in Christ's church....

 

[HisHolly]

How so? The scriptures I've seen discussed are about women not having authority over men?

That actually has no bearing on this discussion about women and their role in Christ's church....

 

[hornetguy]

Hornetguy, If you are trying to say that the example of a church in the NT did not have one person over the assembly but rather a group of elders...then you are correct. Paul ordained elders in every church he established. People use Timothy as an example of a single pastor being over the church, however that is not really an example of a pastor being over a church because Timothy was the personal representative for Paul. Paul was imprisoned and he knew that Timothy would do exactly what he would do, so he personally placed Timothy in that position. It is apparent that James was a prominent person in the Jerusalem church, however they had elders and when they chose the 7 deacons the entire church had an impute.

the way I understand that is that Timothy was a temporary evangelist, who was there to help get the church started. This happened during the very early, formative years of the church. This would be like a missionary who helps get a church started, then moves on.

this in no way establishes a precedent for having one "lead elder/pastor/overseer" in a church. The whole concept is that no one person should be "over" a body of believers. If spiritual guidance is needed, it should be from the group of elders/overseers.