The easy way to spot a false grace message
- Thread starter InSpiritInTruth
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
Willie, you are not paying attention to the words of God which I speak. We do not make ourselves free, the Truth= the Son of God makes us free by spiritual rebirth. Here is a post I posted earlier....
It is written in Ephesians 2:10 “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
Here is a simple concept and easy to understand; we did not create or give birth to ourselves the first time, so when we are born again and made a new creature in Christ; this is also done by the works of our Creator.
The Lord told Jeremiah in Jeremiah 18:1-6 “The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,[SUP]2 [/SUP]Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,[SUP]6 [/SUP]O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.”
Paul expounds on this idea of the Potter having power over the clay here in Romans 9:18-24 “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?[SUP]20 [/SUP]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[SUP]22 [/SUP]What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:[SUP]23 [/SUP]And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,[SUP] 24 [/SUP]Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”
So Paul is showing this same concept that we are God’s workmanship afore prepared and ordained unto glory. This idea is also shown in our first man Adam, and in our new man in Christ. Notice in both instances they are made to be the way they are. Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
Now some who are without understanding try to prop up the false notion that we who speak out against sin and for doing righteousness are preaching “self-righteousness.” But how can this be if we who are born of God also proclaim this truth that we are made free from sin and made righteous by our Maker?
This being made free from sin was foretold to us by Jesus in John 8:32 “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:36 “If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
Also confirmed by Paul here in Romans 6:18 “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 6:22 “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
So did we make ourselves free from sin? Of Course not, just as we are also made by our Maker to be made righteous as shown in Romans 5:19, and here….2 Corinthians 5:21 “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
1 Corinthians 1:30 “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:”
When you understand that a man can receive nothing except it be given to him from heaven, and that every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, then you can also understand there is no room for boasting on our part. All the glory, praise and honor belongs to our Maker.
Hebrews 13:20-21 “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.”
1 Peter 5:10-11 “But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”
It is written in Ephesians 2:10 “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
Here is a simple concept and easy to understand; we did not create or give birth to ourselves the first time, so when we are born again and made a new creature in Christ; this is also done by the works of our Creator.
The Lord told Jeremiah in Jeremiah 18:1-6 “The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,[SUP]2 [/SUP]Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,[SUP]6 [/SUP]O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.”
Paul expounds on this idea of the Potter having power over the clay here in Romans 9:18-24 “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?[SUP]20 [/SUP]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[SUP]22 [/SUP]What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:[SUP]23 [/SUP]And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,[SUP] 24 [/SUP]Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”
So Paul is showing this same concept that we are God’s workmanship afore prepared and ordained unto glory. This idea is also shown in our first man Adam, and in our new man in Christ. Notice in both instances they are made to be the way they are. Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
Now some who are without understanding try to prop up the false notion that we who speak out against sin and for doing righteousness are preaching “self-righteousness.” But how can this be if we who are born of God also proclaim this truth that we are made free from sin and made righteous by our Maker?
This being made free from sin was foretold to us by Jesus in John 8:32 “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:36 “If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
Also confirmed by Paul here in Romans 6:18 “Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 6:22 “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
So did we make ourselves free from sin? Of Course not, just as we are also made by our Maker to be made righteous as shown in Romans 5:19, and here….2 Corinthians 5:21 “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
1 Corinthians 1:30 “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:”
When you understand that a man can receive nothing except it be given to him from heaven, and that every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, then you can also understand there is no room for boasting on our part. All the glory, praise and honor belongs to our Maker.
Hebrews 13:20-21 “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.”
1 Peter 5:10-11 “But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”
What is the problem in the world?
corruption in the world caused by evil desire 2 Peter 1:4
Too many people think their hearts are ok, do not need resolving or purifying.
Jesus said, it is our hearts and what comes out of them that defile us.
The things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them.
Matt 15:18
Now a neat side step is to say we are neither or holy, so who needs to worry about
being defiled. I would say then doomed to hell, whatever ones faith position is because
nothing defiled is going to enter heaven, case closed.
corruption in the world caused by evil desire 2 Peter 1:4
Too many people think their hearts are ok, do not need resolving or purifying.
Jesus said, it is our hearts and what comes out of them that defile us.
The things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them.
Matt 15:18
Now a neat side step is to say we are neither or holy, so who needs to worry about
being defiled. I would say then doomed to hell, whatever ones faith position is because
nothing defiled is going to enter heaven, case closed.
Thanks for the example of the false doctrines of the Devil. The Devil wants you believe you will always be his servant. He who commits sins is of the Devil ...1 John 3:8
Hebrews 12:6 ..For the Lord disciplines the one He loves and chastises every son whom He receives.
Proverbs 3:11-12 ..My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline and do not resent His rebuke 12) because the Lord disciplines those He loves, as a Father the son in whom He delights.
Why are we disciplined and chastised ? Maybe because we all fall short at times ? You think you know the limit of God's mercy ? Apply it to yourself ... and then try living with your shame and regret after you've fallen short yet again. The rest of us will lay ourselves at Christ's feet.
Proverbs 3:11-12 ..My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline and do not resent His rebuke 12) because the Lord disciplines those He loves, as a Father the son in whom He delights.
Why are we disciplined and chastised ? Maybe because we all fall short at times ? You think you know the limit of God's mercy ? Apply it to yourself ... and then try living with your shame and regret after you've fallen short yet again. The rest of us will lay ourselves at Christ's feet.
E
I thought ISIT just used a version of scripture I was not used to. So I checked.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil [SUP][a][/SUP]has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (NASB)
see what happens when you ADD to the word of God (the word commit) You change the meaning of the scripture. and make it appear to say something it never said.
Shame Shame on you ISIT!!
What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.
Mark 7:20-23
Now if someone wants to have responsibility or even walk with the Lord,
they need to repent of this behaviour and walk in love.
Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1
Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
James 4:8
Defilement and purification are serious issues in the life of a believer.
There is nothing more serious than unresolved sin, it is poison that
rots the soul.
But listening to some, it is like everyday problems, and so what if it
comes out in everything we do, God is greater.
In the Holy of Holies, anybody who was unclean died.
Yet now this God is not bothered the state of believers, they can
be what they want to be, it is just live and let live... cool man ...
pass the weed and lets just trip out ... it is all so stressed around here ...
Mark 7:20-23
Now if someone wants to have responsibility or even walk with the Lord,
they need to repent of this behaviour and walk in love.
Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1
Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
James 4:8
Defilement and purification are serious issues in the life of a believer.
There is nothing more serious than unresolved sin, it is poison that
rots the soul.
But listening to some, it is like everyday problems, and so what if it
comes out in everything we do, God is greater.
In the Holy of Holies, anybody who was unclean died.
Yet now this God is not bothered the state of believers, they can
be what they want to be, it is just live and let live... cool man ...
pass the weed and lets just trip out ... it is all so stressed around here ...
1. That last part on #1 is one of the biggest crocks of bull I've ever heard
2. #2 is probably the biggest of the crocks of bull I've ever heard. If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore, & you'll feel better. I know I do since I just did that to you.
2. #2 is probably the biggest of the crocks of bull I've ever heard. If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore, & you'll feel better. I know I do since I just did that to you.
Ergo, free from the consequences of sin, not free from sin itself. The true believer has two natures, the old man/sinful nature and the new man in Christ. The flesh wars against the Spirit and Spirit against the flesh, for they are contrary to one another.
As we go from faith to faith we are being transformed into the image of Christ., The new man in Christ is displacing the sinful nature, which is a life-long process. We will never be sinless in these mortal bodies, with the sinful nature and that includes everyone.
Believers did not miraculously stop sinning once they received Christ.
Did you immediately stop sinning after you said yes to Christ? No, you didn't! It is a life-long process of being transformed into the image of Christ, which is still on-going. For some it took a long time to come out from under the willful sins of the flesh. How many believers have dealt with and deal with sexual immorality after having received Christ? How many have dealt with and deal with lying, anger, wrong motives, selfishness, and the list goes on and on? And you are saying that you walk on water?
Regardless of how much we try, at some point we sin, either in deed or in thought. We are not saying this as a license to sin, for we desire not to sin. But because our sinful nature we are sinners, covered by the shed blood of Christ. Because of grace am I promoting the continuance of sin? Not at all! I am merely saying what God has already said of us:
"there is none righteous, no not one. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
The above has not changed, for in our own selves we are sinners. But in Christ we credited with righteousness and because the Spirit of God dwells within us and the word of God remains in us, we endeavor to keep sin out of our lives.
As scripture states, the truth is not in those who say that they have no sin and by doing so they make God out to be a liar.
As we go from faith to faith we are being transformed into the image of Christ., The new man in Christ is displacing the sinful nature, which is a life-long process. We will never be sinless in these mortal bodies, with the sinful nature and that includes everyone.
Believers did not miraculously stop sinning once they received Christ.
Did you immediately stop sinning after you said yes to Christ? No, you didn't! It is a life-long process of being transformed into the image of Christ, which is still on-going. For some it took a long time to come out from under the willful sins of the flesh. How many believers have dealt with and deal with sexual immorality after having received Christ? How many have dealt with and deal with lying, anger, wrong motives, selfishness, and the list goes on and on? And you are saying that you walk on water?
Regardless of how much we try, at some point we sin, either in deed or in thought. We are not saying this as a license to sin, for we desire not to sin. But because our sinful nature we are sinners, covered by the shed blood of Christ. Because of grace am I promoting the continuance of sin? Not at all! I am merely saying what God has already said of us:
"there is none righteous, no not one. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
The above has not changed, for in our own selves we are sinners. But in Christ we credited with righteousness and because the Spirit of God dwells within us and the word of God remains in us, we endeavor to keep sin out of our lives.
As scripture states, the truth is not in those who say that they have no sin and by doing so they make God out to be a liar.
Last edited:
He that commits sin is of the devil; AKJV
He that commits sin is of the devil KJ 2000
He that commits sin is of the devil JB 2000
How can someone have shame, when the facts are wrong.
It is just a rash jumping to conclusions over a miss-interpretation of
what is going on.
Now where is the integrity in that, back firing again I think
(Yet another attempt at slander and smear)
He that commits sin is of the devil KJ 2000
He that commits sin is of the devil JB 2000
How can someone have shame, when the facts are wrong.
It is just a rash jumping to conclusions over a miss-interpretation of
what is going on.
Now where is the integrity in that, back firing again I think
(Yet another attempt at slander and smear)
Matthew 11:18-19
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
You can't possibly know the heart of Martin Luther .. or how many beers he drank. You judge much.
E
Well unlike Peter here, I can repent when I have been proven wrong. (sorry to burst your bubble Peter. I am not to proud to admit when I have made a mistake. That is what happens when you live under grace!)
For some reason, Biblegateway showed me the same interpretation for the NKJV as it did for the authorized
Yet more of the KJV issue we have to deal with. The term is plural. Meaning it is not one sin, It is habitually sinning. (the NASB is actually more accurate)
Yet we all know that is not what ISIT was saying..
For some reason, Biblegateway showed me the same interpretation for the NKJV as it did for the authorized
Yet more of the KJV issue we have to deal with. The term is plural. Meaning it is not one sin, It is habitually sinning. (the NASB is actually more accurate)
Yet we all know that is not what ISIT was saying..
- Status